Bitcoin (1 Viewer)

[JohnfrmClevelan]

A paper dollar bill has almost no intrinsic value - just some linen and ink. Government force doesn't change that fact.

Dollars are the only thing that will extinguish your tax liabilities.

 

[OrphanSlug]

A paper dollar bill has almost no intrinsic value - just some linen and ink. Government force doesn't change that fact.

Fiat money systems, which just about every nation and modern economy uses now, by design has no intrinsic value. That is not the point. Fiat money is not designed to derive value from an underlying asset held like precious metals or real estate or other calculated value from some set of assets.

Its value is determined by trust, and confidence, in the issuing government via the performance of fiscal and monetary policy within the performance of that nation's economy, as both the currency and economy competes against other nations. Used to be something "capitalist pigs" cared about, competition and capitalism.

We do not need government force to change any of this, and those that try end up branded currency manipulators. Like Russia and China.

Now, because you presumable live in this nation that means your ability to primarily participate in this economy, and have interaction with government, means using the US dollar.

Sure, Trump and a few MAGAs may try to blend things with cryptocurrency here and there but that does not mean the Fed is suddenly going to watch the US dollar lose competition value just to make them happy.

 

[aociswundumho]

Its value is determined by trust, and confidence, in the issuing government via the performance of fiscal and monetary policy within the performance of that nation's economy, as both the currency and economy competes against other nations. Used to be something "capitalist pigs" cared about, competition and capitalism.

I do support competition, which is why I support competing currencies.

We do not need government force to change any of this, and those that try end up branded currency manipulators. Like Russia and China.

Now, because you presumable live in this nation that means your ability to primarily participate in this economy, and have interaction with government, means using the US dollar.

Sure, Trump and a few MAGAs may try to blend things with cryptocurrency here and there but that does not mean the Fed is suddenly going to watch the US dollar lose competition value just to make them happy.

The interest on the debt will surpass 1 trillion by 2026, and by 2035 will be the second largest expense. Meanwhile your beloved federal government is still running trillion dollar deficits.

The dollar is doomed, and crypto will be there to replace it.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I do support competition, which is why I support competing currencies.

The interest on the debt will surpass 1 trillion by 2026, and by 2035 will be the second largest expense. Meanwhile your beloved federal government is still running trillion dollar deficits.

The dollar is doomed, and crypto will be there to replace it.

By what measure is the dollar doomed? Be specific.

Moreover, it would be economic suicide to replace fiat currency with cryptocurrency, that removes any sense of policy designed to deal with optimal employment and price stability. You would literally be eating your own tail as the only reason cryptocurrency increases in value is when more have means and demand to buy it.

BTW, putting aside the asinine idea to cripple world economies, take a wild stab in the dark what is used to purchase cryptocurrency. So, then what?

 

[aociswundumho]

By what measure is the dollar doomed? Be specific.

Moreover, it would be economic suicide to replace fiat currency with cryptocurrency, that removes any sense of policy designed to deal with optimal employment and price stability.

Is the US housing market an example of this so-called "price stability"? How about the healthcare market?

You would literally be eating your own tail as the only reason cryptocurrency increases in value is when more have means and demand to buy it.

BTW, putting aside the asinine idea to cripple world economies, take a wild stab in the dark what is used to purchase cryptocurrency. So, then what?

The goal is to never convert back to fiat. If people buy crypto as a hedge, stores will have an incentive to accept it. If they don't, one of their competitors will.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

The interest on the debt will surpass 1 trillion by 2026, and by 2035 will be the second largest expense. Meanwhile your beloved federal government is still running trillion dollar deficits.

So what? I tried to explain how this all works in another thread, but it's clear that you don't understand federal finance.

 

[aociswundumho]

So what? I tried to explain how this all works in another thread, but it's clear that you don't understand federal finance.

Great, then you have nothing to worry about.

 

[JohnfrmClevelan]

Great, then you have nothing to worry about.

As long as you are able to vote, we all have something to worry about. The number of people who vote based on a faulty understanding of the national debt is considerable.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

last bitcoin won't be mined

you make it sound like they are real. They are not, they are simply number chains created by using electricity. They have no value other than what people say they are, whereas the dollar has value because the US has a tax base, BC has nothing but electric bills....and vidcard costs. Its all a bunch of wasted heat.

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Again, your hyperinflation "solution" wiped out the middle class and gave rise to Hitler. Anything else would have been better.

It wiped out a lot German debt and caused a renegotiating of terms, which allowed the creation of a new Mark and a stabilization of the economy, TEN YEARS before Hitler took control. Hitler gained power due to too many rightwingers falling for a radical rightwing blowhard who made a big deal out communists and Jews with his propaganda.

 

[aociswundumho]

Hitler gained power due to too many rightwingers falling for a radical rightwing blowhard who made a big deal out communists and Jews with his propaganda.

At the time, the alternative to Nazism was Marxism, which everyone could see was already destroying Russia. Turns out that Hitler's version of socialism was just as terrible as all the others.

 

[Gordy327]

Trump deserves to be on that hundred billion bank note for his considerable value to America alone.

MAGA.

Trump isn't even fit enough to be on Monopoly money let alone any legal tender.

 

[KevinKohler]

A paper dollar bill has almost no intrinsic value - just some linen and ink. Government force doesn't change that fact.

It has value because American merchants are required by law to accept it.

 

[aociswundumho]

It has value because American merchants are required by law to accept it.

That's not true:

Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

You can open a business and only accept bitcoin, but you probably won't last very long. It also depends on local laws.

 

[devildavid]

The cause of hyperinflation is governments printing excessive money without economic growth to support it, leading to a loss of trust in the currency. That's why they burn it, or just toss it in the street. Private currencies resist inflation by removing central banks from the equation. Many have a fixed supply cap or use controlled issuance to prevent devaluation. For example, bitcoin is limited to 21 million coins, unlike fiat currencies, which can be printed indefinitely. Monero, my favorite privacy coin, does not have a supply cap but instead uses tail emission, a method that keeps inflation predictable and low over time.

I'm pretty sure you know all of this already.

Crypto isn’t a currency. Being privately held means that it is inaccessible to the masses of people who need it. It doesn’t function as a currency that can be used broadly to keep a viable economic system going.

 

[devildavid]

That's not true:

Is it legal for a business in the United States to refuse cash as a form of payment?

The Federal Reserve Board of Governors in Washington DC.

www.federalreserve.gov

You can open a business and only accept bitcoin, but you probably won't last very long. It also depends on local laws.

That is because bitcoin is make believe and has no value.

 

[aociswundumho]

Crypto isn’t a currency. Being privately held means that it is inaccessible to the masses of people who need it. It doesn’t function as a currency that can be used broadly to keep a viable economic system going.

In fact it's available to anyone and everyone.

That is because bitcoin is make believe and has no value.

As we sit here and write, one bitcoin is worth 100,000 US dollars.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Is the US housing market an example of this so-called "price stability"? How about the healthcare market?

Calling out any one or two items out of the basket suggests you do not understand what a basket means.

The goal is to never convert back to fiat. If people buy crypto as a hedge, stores will have an incentive to accept it. If they don't, one of their competitors will.

You seem to be unaware of how crypto works, is exchanged, and is valued.

 

[devildavid]

In fact it's available to anyone and everyone.



As we sit here and write, one bitcoin is worth 100,000 US dollars.

No, it is not. It is a very limited investment tool for sale only to those who can afford it. Bitcoins are worthless. It is make believe. It doesn’t function as a currency at all.

 

[HumblePi]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/$Trump
$TRUMP (stylized in all caps) is a meme coin associated with United States president Donald Trump, hosted on the Solana blockchain platform.[1] One billion coins were originally created; 800 million remain owned by two Trump-owned companies, after 200 million were publicly released in an initial coin offering (ICO) on January 17, 2025. Less than a day later, the aggregate market value of all coins was more than $27 billion, valuing Trump's holdings at more than $20 billion. A March 2025 Financial Times analysis found that the crypto project netted at least $350 million through sales of tokens and fees.[2]

The venture has faced widespread condemnation from ethics experts for Donald Trump's conflicts of interest related to the project and his presidential duties. During the second Trump administration, Trump has promoted $TRUMP and taken actions that have raised the value of the meme coin, contributing to a substantial increase in his net worth



So much for the emolument's clause...

 

[Gimmesometruth]

At the time, the alternative to Nazism was Marxism, which everyone could see was already destroying Russia.

What everyone saw was the end of monarchy in Russia and what most wanted was an end to monarchy in Germany that had lead them into WWI. Weak democracies like in Germany after WWI are more susceptible to strongman rule than a fairly strong ones, but even here we see how they can rise to power.

Turns out that Hitler's version of socialism was just as terrible as all the others.

He wasn't a socialist, he had no political framework, he was a demigod, an extreme narcissus, a master of bluff, a gambler that went all in. All he had was propaganda and fury, he could not delegate, it was all cult of personality, extreme chauvinistic nationalism. He had no politics. NAZI-ism was Hitler, nothing more.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

It isn't a serious corporate policy.

It's a stunt.

Bitcoin is not a viable payment system. It can't handle the rate of transactions necessary to be one.

If anything it is an unregulated security whose value is derived from burning electricity and whose majority ownership is concentrated into very few hands.

This doesn't make any logical sense.

Do you think the company would actually spend all the money they must be spending to deploy the payment system and to train their employees to know how to receive the payments just for what publicity?

So you can say it's a lie or you can say that it is bound to fail. Those are possibilities, but the idea of it being a stunt is craziness, honestly.

 

[cAPSLOCK]

By having a public ledger that people have to jump through hoops to use and pay a third party in order to make a transaction.

Do you use a credit or debit card?

 

[cAPSLOCK]

We are discussing multiple things here. One of them is sort of Keynesian economic philosophy versus Austrian. And that's one thing. And many arguments (ex. crypto is not stable) are certainly political.

The other subject is Bitcoin (and crypto, which in general I think is mostly garbage).

As someone who has been in this experiment for nearly 15 years and has even been a contributor to a project mentioned in this thread I humbly believe I am somewhat qualified to point out that this is where many of you are:

 

[Grogu]

This doesn't make any logical sense.

Do you think the company would actually spend all the money they must be spending to deploy the payment system and to train their employees to know how to receive the payments just for what publicity?

So you can say it's a lie or you can say that it is bound to fail. Those are possibilities, but the idea of it being a stunt is craziness, honestly.

Maybe Steak ‘n Shake is being run by idiots who want to get a publicity bang by being known for accepting Bitcoin? I remember the hoopla when Tesla announced they would accept Bitcoin as payment for their vehicles. But here’s the thing- are you planning to eat all of your meals at Steak ‘n Shake?

The last I knew there are really two key issues on the table. One, is cryptocurrency widely held? And two, is cryptocurrency widely accepted? I’d say that’s a resounding “NO” on both counts. Add in the volatility factor, and all of a sudden, crypto doesn’t look like such a hot growth candidate.

Bitcoin, for example, has a 52-week range of 49,121.24 - 109,114.88. No thanks. I want my currency to have stability, not wild volatility. Also, if Bitcoin is $103,879.00, and I’m wanting a burger basket meal at Steak ‘n Shake for $12.50, I want to know exactly how much money I have in my wallet. I don’t want that to fluctuate and I don’t constantly want to have to calculate exactly to the dollar what I have, or what I’m losing 24/7.