• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

Bill Cosby, you are my hero

Timequake

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
First, let it be known that I am setting all racial etiquette aside in this discussion because I feel this topic is one of the most imperative domestic issues America encounters today.

Over a year ago Bill Cosby publicly acknowledged the harsh standard of living in which he called an “epidemic” found in African American communities throughout the country. Kids are behind in school, if they stay in at all, violence is routine, marriage is a joke. What kind of society are we allowing ourselves to live in? I for one applauded this brave act by Cosby. How can we solve a problem if we are not willing to acknowledge it in the first place? White Liberals and African American leaders are quick to jump on this issue and call it racist, but African American poverty is not just a racial issue, it’s a domestic issue. How can you call Bill Cosby, an advocate for civil rights, racist? The fact is that in these communities, more than any other, children are having children, children aren’t being educated, and it’s considered a norm! Lifestyles where children are being raised not by the mother or father, but by the grandmother or great grandmother is unacceptable and ultimately the root of the problem. But what’s worse is that this lifestyle is being pasted from generation to generation as suitable and while doing so the age of were the problem starts decrease.

What I am asking is, as a nation what can we do? We can’t force people to want to go to school, stop having pre-marital sex, or obey laws. What can the President do?

Now, I’m ready for the backlash which talks of the oppression that the African American community has faced, but what can we do about the past? Nothing. All we can acknowledge is the future, fixing the problems at hand and trying to overcome the barriers that have been set.
 

vergiss

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
2,356
Reaction score
1
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Slightly Liberal
Erm... aren't you familiar with the term "white trash"?

What can we do? Mandatory sterilisation. Eventually the bogans will all die out. :D
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
vergiss said:
Erm... aren't you familiar with the term "white trash"?

What can we do? Mandatory sterilisation. Eventually the bogans will all die out. :D
The problem is that white trash, as we love to call them are typically frowned upon within the white community, I think it is bad to use terms based on ethnicity however because, let's face it, trash is trash and anyone who chooses to let others supplement their welfare indefinitely or fail to take responsibility for themselves are drains on society as a whole, naturally there are exceptions, some people really try hard to improve, hope that number increases.
The Coz intrigued me with his words and he made it clear that ALL children must aspire to be more and we as their mentors must develop the mentality of right and wrong, taking responsibility, and self-sacrifice.
For instance- Cosby spoke about dress, grammar, and mannerisms and had an exceptional point, if someone comes into my office with a few grammatical gaffs looking for an executive job I can forgive those because I certainly am not great at grammar myself, next is dress, in positions where one must set themselves apart as a professional, dress lends to credibility whether we like it or not most people make up their minds about someone within 2 seconds of meeting them and also mannerisms are key, they tell people how you are likely to act in any given situation. In other words, slang is okay or improper syntax IF and only IF they are recognizable and accepted by ALL groups(including age,gender,ethnicity), dress will get you a second thought during the interview(I wouldn't hire someone who looks like the village idiot), and if you walk like you just finished snorting Meth, I probably won't trust you with sensitive documentation or client relations, I probably don't even want you in the front office. Of course there may be a place in the stockroom even if it doesn't pay that great of a salary. - What's my point, "keeping it real" may be great if you're drinking with your buddies or going to a party, but when you don't invest any clothing dollars in a "sunday best" outfit you aren't exactly priming yourself for success.
-Also, Cosby had a point that the black community views successful blacks as sell outs, that they expect people they grew up with to talk a certain way, dress a certain way, act a certain way, listen to certain music, etc. etc. and anyone who breaks from this mold is either considered a traitor or less than a man. To be fair, all ethnic groups do this to about the same extent, there are unspoken sub-rules to follow for acceptance in that community. How then can one hope to get out of this mentality and why does it exist?
If anyone should find offense by this post I will apologize in advance, but it is better to offend and bring up important debate than to let political correctness blind us to problems.
 
H

HTColeman

Timequake said:
First, let it be known that I am setting all racial etiquette aside in this discussion because I feel this topic is one of the most imperative domestic issues America encounters today.

Over a year ago Bill Cosby publicly acknowledged the harsh standard of living in which he called an “epidemic” found in African American communities throughout the country. Kids are behind in school, if they stay in at all, violence is routine, marriage is a joke. What kind of society are we allowing ourselves to live in? I for one applauded this brave act by Cosby. How can we solve a problem if we are not willing to acknowledge it in the first place? White Liberals and African American leaders are quick to jump on this issue and call it racist, but African American poverty is not just a racial issue, it’s a domestic issue. How can you call Bill Cosby, an advocate for civil rights, racist? The fact is that in these communities, more than any other, children are having children, children aren’t being educated, and it’s considered a norm! Lifestyles where children are being raised not by the mother or father, but by the grandmother or great grandmother is unacceptable and ultimately the root of the problem. But what’s worse is that this lifestyle is being pasted from generation to generation as suitable and while doing so the age of were the problem starts decrease.

What I am asking is, as a nation what can we do? We can’t force people to want to go to school, stop having pre-marital sex, or obey laws. What can the President do?

Now, I’m ready for the backlash which talks of the oppression that the African American community has faced, but what can we do about the past? Nothing. All we can acknowledge is the future, fixing the problems at hand and trying to overcome the barriers that have been set.
On the side, I don't think you need to worry about any backlash, you did not at all seem racist. Many people take Cosby's words, twist them, and use them as justification to bash those in the black community that can't, or won't do well for themselves. But you stated it very well;)

Anyways, I think while Cosby stated the problems with in the black community, I say, why not take it a step further and look at the big picture. First, the black community is in a crisis, and we need a leader of some sort. Not to say we are all just followers, but a leader would provide a sense of unity, not supremecy or pride, just unity. From there we are all on one page and we can take some action. It is important not to take a "strong will survive" attitude, you are only as strong as your weakest person. The problem with the current "leaders", like Sharpton and such, is they don't address issues. They nitpick and get caught up in little issues. For example, "The Barbershop" (movie) said some negative things about Rosa Parks, not serious but in joking, and they went ballistic, (speeches, criticism, etc.). IMO, I don't think that is our biggest problem, so why are we spending so much time complaining about movies that dont show African Americans in the best light, its not that serious of an issue. (ranting just a bit).

Also, in a broader spectrum, it is not just a black issue. Many people get the mindset of "they have a problem in their community". It is America's problem, as it affects America as a whole, even if it didn't blacks are Americans too. So like you said, "What can we do?" That question, IMO, is the first step.
 

Timequake

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
I think you are dead on. There needs to be unity, and not just within the black community but also within Americans in general. Instead of facing problems we are blaming them on each other and all this does is divide us. Leaders like Al Sharpton are so busy loudly blaming people left and right for racism and apathy that the real issue (which isn’t racism) is being ignored. Now Sharpton agreed with Cosby about the issue at hand but instead of doing something about it, he just threw a fit and said the president should fix it. Why not you fix it, Al? Be the leader you claim to be.

Where is a MLK Jr. when you need him?
 
Last edited:

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
That's the point that alluded me, unity, I just couldn't put my finger on it.
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
You know how you keep a minority a "minority"?

By continuing to tell them that they are a minority...
 

Timequake

Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
84
Reaction score
0
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Undisclosed
Let's be honest here, who isn't a minority?
 

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Timequake said:
Let's be honest here, who isn't a minority?
I should start the National Association for the Advancement of Half-Irish/Half-Polish Redheads...

But that would put a crimp in the syle of the NAACPETCPWDTLU(National Association fro the Advancement of Colored People Except Those Colored People Who Don't Think Like Us).
 
H

HTColeman

cnredd said:
You know how you keep a minority a "minority"?

By continuing to tell them that they are a minority...
For an example, look to your left at South Africa in the 70s.
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
I think there's a law of unintended consequences that have come about as well. For instance, Affirmative action, well, it sounds great, everyone represented in the workforce, but there's a problem, two actually:
1) how do you guage your merit as a person if you can't fail, taking away stumbling blocks like having to compete on a flat playing field with legititimate 50/50 chances could, in my opinion cause those on the leveraged end to feel that because such leverage exists, then we as a country are no better off in race relations than the 50's, I know if I was put into a job under conditioned circumstances(like nepotism or bribery) I would always feel inferior because I just wouldn't know if I did it or if someone forced me to advance.(Just a theory, no pitchforks please.)
2) A negative backlash could occur and it gives those displaced a scapegoat, even if they were simply outperformed and the ligitimate candidate was also the member of the quota group. I think the Irish backlash(over labor jobs) in the early 1900's would suffice as circumstantial evidence.
I seriously think though, that quota systems do more harm to the target groups they are set for than good. I welcome all opinions on this.
* I had to edit, it sounded stupid till I added the 50/50 point.
 
Last edited:

cnredd

Major General Big Lug
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
8,682
Reaction score
262
Location
Philadelphia,PA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
LaMidRighter said:
I think there's a law of unintended consequences that have come about as well. For instance, Affirmative action, well, it sounds great, everyone represented in the workforce, but there's a problem, two actually:
1) how do you guage your merit as a person if you can't fail, taking away stumbling blocks like having to compete on a tilted playing field could, in my opinion cause those on the leveraged end to feel that because such leverage exists, then we as a country are no better off in race relations than the 50's, I know if I was put into a job under conditioned circumstances(like nepotism or bribery) I would always feel inferior because I just wouldn't know if I did it or if someone forced me to advance.(Just a theory, no pitchforks please.)
2) A negative backlash could occur and it gives those displaced a scapegoat, even if they were simply outperformed and the ligitimate candidate was also the member of the quota group. I think the Irish backlash(over labor jobs) in the early 1900's would suffice as circumstantial evidence.
I seriously think though, that quota systems do more harm to the target groups they are set for than good. I welcome all opinions on this.
Don't forget...Bill Cosby's or Colin Powell's kids can jump over the white firefighter's kid even though the firefighter's kid has a higher score....
 
H

HTColeman

LaMidRighter said:
I think there's a law of unintended consequences that have come about as well. For instance, Affirmative action, well, it sounds great, everyone represented in the workforce, but there's a problem, two actually:
1) how do you guage your merit as a person if you can't fail, taking away stumbling blocks like having to compete on a tilted playing field could, in my opinion cause those on the leveraged end to feel that because such leverage exists, then we as a country are no better off in race relations than the 50's, I know if I was put into a job under conditioned circumstances(like nepotism or bribery) I would always feel inferior because I just wouldn't know if I did it or if someone forced me to advance.(Just a theory, no pitchforks please.)
2) A negative backlash could occur and it gives those displaced a scapegoat, even if they were simply outperformed and the ligitimate candidate was also the member of the quota group. I think the Irish backlash(over labor jobs) in the early 1900's would suffice as circumstantial evidence.
I seriously think though, that quota systems do more harm to the target groups they are set for than good. I welcome all opinions on this.
I agree, but the intention of Aff. Action is well founded. We realize that there is a problem about hiring in the workplace, so we need to fix it. The problem is no one has been able to think of a good plan that will fix it without being counterproductive. We can't simply do nothing and get rid of Aff. Action, but we can't keep Aff. Action either. We are kind of stuck.
 

LaMidRighter

Klattu Verata Nicto
DP Veteran
Joined
May 19, 2005
Messages
30,534
Reaction score
10,682
Location
Louisiana
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Right
HTColeman said:
I agree, but the intention of Aff. Action is well founded. We realize that there is a problem about hiring in the workplace, so we need to fix it. The problem is no one has been able to think of a good plan that will fix it without being counterproductive. We can't simply do nothing and get rid of Aff. Action, but we can't keep Aff. Action either. We are kind of stuck.
Good point, scary that we're stuck in this situation.
 
Top Bottom