Biden takes a step toward $15 federal minimum wage

[Callen]

What would our wonderful lifestyles be without all those who work for minimum wage, it sure wouldn't be quite so wonderful. We need a low wage segment of the workforce, not everybody can be making top-dollar, nor should they. I find it sad that so many love the services these people provide us, love how it makes their lives better but begrudge paying them a wage that would allow for the basics of life safe housing, food, education for their kids and maybe even healthcare although at $15 ab hour that is likely a stretch.

I wonder if these people who think $15 is going to make their cheeseburgers too expensive ever stop to think how an increased minimum wage could move some of the burden for subsidizing corporate payrolls from the taxpayer back to the corporations where it belongs. Maybe others are OK with it but I resent having to supplement people's income because employers won't pay a decent wage.

 

[Allan]

OK, but why should publicly paid employees get significantly higher pay than those doing the same work for private employers? This seems to intentionally violate the equal pay for equal work concept. It’s much like the Davis Bacon Act but without tying the ‘prevailing’ pay rate to any specific job or work location.

Equal pay for equal work is intended to equalize pay by gender within the same organization, it doesn't apply to wage scales for different employers.

 

[NWRatCon]

An action I cannot approve of. First off, I do not agree with an artificial minimum wage.

And also, there is too much disparity in the cost of living in different parts of the country to make a country wide minimum wage. Stupid to pay someone in Springfield, Missouri the same rate as someone living in Los Angles.

Let's think about that for a moment.

$15/hour for a full-time job (2080 hours) is $31,200/year. The median income in Missouri is $54,478, so 57% of that. That's not exactly living high off the hog, even in Missouri. Currently, the minimum wage in Missouri is $8.60/hr or $17,888/yr. Even in Missouri, that right about the poverty line ($12,880 individual, $17,240 for a couple) - or "the total cost of all the essential resources that an average human adult consumes in one year".

Now, I am a proponent of "prevailing wage" calculations, and that conception could be applied to minimum wage standards, as the federal government already does for per diem reimbursement. That would allow adjustment for "cost of living" in various locales. The concept, after all, is a "living wage", and should be adjusted, in my view, based upon that actual cost of living.

 

[cpwill]

OK, but why should publicly paid employees get significantly higher pay than those doing the same work for private employers? This seems to intentionally violate the equal pay for equal work concept. It’s much like the Davis Bacon Act but without tying the ‘prevailing’ pay rate to any specific job or work location.

Yup. And it is already the case for low skill labor that federal employees make substantially more than there counterparts.

 

[Noodlegawd]

Biden takes a step toward $15 federal minimum wage

This is a fraught time to tackle minimum wage increases. It would address long-term inequities but more businesses are in trouble now.

www.marketplace.org

All action, no talk(twitter)

Why, exactly, do we need a federal minimum wage?

 

[ttwtt78640]

If they are employed by a different person then they are free to be paid more or less. Equal pay for equal work only applies within the same employer. It is perfectly legal for Target to pay their people more than WalMart

You seem to have missed my point. If company A has some employees working (perhaps temporarily) on government contracts and other employees (not doing so) then they face ether giving either pay bumps (perhaps temporarily) only to those employees or paying all of their (similar) employees at the government contractor rate.

 

[Mircea]

All it does is raise the cost of living.

That's exactly right.

How about the guy making 595 million a year (Musk)?

Nice Göbbeling.

Musk does not make $595 Million/year nor $95 Million/year.

You seem unable to differentiate between cash compensation and non-cash compensation.

For example, Göbbelists claimed that the CEO of Anthem Blue Cross/Blue Shield made $23 Million in a given year.

That claim was false and one need only read SEC filings to know the truth.

The CEO actually got $7 Million in cash and $16 Million in non-cash benefits, totaling $23 Million. Note that federal law requires the reporting of CEO compensation for the 3% of US businesses that are publicly-traded corporations to report total compensation instead of cash compensation only.

Likewise it is often reported that Bill Gates' net worth is $95 Billion.

Gates does not have $95 Billion in cash. He has maybe $10-$12 Million in cash. the other $94 Billion is in assets, which are not cash.

What does that do to the cost of living?

Nothing.

It's simple Economics.

 

[Mircea]

Why, exactly, do we need a federal minimum wage?

Because 90% of the population is totally ignorant and think that the US is really Iceland with a population of 379,000 people, no States, and no regional or State differences and a uniform Cost-of-Living throughout the entire US and because they stupidly believe that "one-size-fits-all" really works.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Equal pay for equal work is intended to equalize pay by gender within the same organization, it doesn't apply to wage scales for different employers.

Simply because an employer does some work on government contracts does not mean that is the only work which they have (similarly skilled) employees doing.

The Davis Bacon Act was passed to favor union contractors - since anyone bidding on government contracts must pay their workers at least local ‘prevailing’ (aka union scale) wages.

Even the Davis Bacon Act and labor unions do not mandate equal pay for equal work, since they recognize (realize?) that ‘prevailing’ wages differ geographically (regionally by county?) and by trade and skill level within that trade (job position?).

That is a problem with a nationwide MW which ignores those regional differences in pay rates and costs of living. What is “fair” wage in rural Alabama or Texas is different than what is a “fair” wage in San Francisco or NYC.

 

[ttwtt78640]

1) How about the guy making 595 million a year (Musk)? What does that do to the cost of living?

2) Why is the cost of living only a factor when the poor would get a bit more?

1) Nothing.

2) Because many of those who are more skilled or experienced workers will also get pay raises. There are many currently being paid at or below $15/hour, but at variable amounts based on their skill and experience levels. If workers (now above the MW) are currently paid as follows: worker A $8/hour, worker B $10/hour, worker C $12/hour and worker D $15/hour - do you expect all of them to be content to become MW workers?

 

[Logophile]

It's very likely that a federal minimum wage hike will put a dent in small business. The high school kid that gets an after school job helping out a store may find that he can't work as many hours as he'd like or any at all. The owner may be forced to keep a Mom and Pop strictly Mom and Pop. The other problem is that once the mw increases, so do all services and products to pay for those salaries - IF - that is, they can be paid. So my guess is there will be a decrease in hiring and a lot of products gathering dust on shelves because the cost to produce them made them unaffordable or at least considered a luxury. The idea that a national hike in the minimum wage will increase spending is unlikely, imho. All it is going to do is make everything else commensurately more expensive. Thanks!!

 

[Callen]

The high school kid that gets an after school job helping out a store may find that he can't work as many hours as he'd like or any at all.

Students could have a lower minimum wage than adult workers, same for restaurant workers or other jobs that are tip oriented. That's what we do here.

I think that 10 States are already on their way to a higher minimum wage over time. Florida just passed a law that would see $15 by 2026. I think the notion that inflation will rise and jobs will be lost is a knee jerk reaction. If done over time the impact will be negligible. Walmart and Costco are already raising their minimum wages without legislation. Is $15 the right target? I don't know, but I do know that the salary of employees should be born by the employer and the free market and not the taxpayer.

Edited to correct the number of States

 

[Patriotic Voter]

If you don't change people's spending and savings habits then all you're doing is adding numbers to the definition of poor. You aren't reducing the wage gap, you aren't helping to keep inflation under control. You're going to get a lot of poor people fired when their employers can't afford to spend that much on labor because customers aren't willing to spend that much on a cheeseburger.

How many poor people do you think would not be poor anymore if they were paid $15 per hour? The number of people in poverty obviously would drop. Poor people don't get that way by wasting thousands of dollars. They never had opportunities to ear thousands of dollars. When I was working, my highest salary BY FAR was $8.50 per hour. I worked overtime on the first weekend every month (position requirement) and was paid the overtime salary for that. And I STILL could not afford to live on my own if I had to.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Students could have a lower minimum wage than adult workers, same for restaurant workers or other jobs that are tip oriented. That's what we do here.

I think that 10 States are already on their way to a higher minimum wage over time. Florida just passed a law that would see $15 by 2026. I think the notion that inflation will rise and jobs will be lost is a knee jerk reaction. If done over time the impact will be negligible. Walmart and Costco are already raising their minimum wages without legislation. Is $15 the right target? I don't know, but I do know that the salary of employees should be born by the employer and the free market and not the taxpayer.

Edited to correct the number of States

I mostly agree, but your last point makes little sense. Having the taxpayers supplement the paychecks of 12% to 15% of lower wage workers with “safety net” benefits is (mostly) funded via (federal) income taxation, causing the more financially secure to bear the bulk of that taxation burden. However, paying all workers more would raise the prices of (most) goods/services and thus negatively impact (burden?) those who currently pay little or no income tax (e.g. retirees, the disabled and lower wage workers) more so than those who are financially better off.

 

[Callen]

I mostly agree, but your last point makes little sense. Having the taxpayers supplement the paychecks of 12% to 15% of lower wage workers with “safety net” benefits is (mostly) funded via (federal) income taxation, causing the more financially secure to bear the bulk of that taxation burden. However, paying all workers more would raise the prices of (most) goods/services and thus negatively impact (burden?) those who currently pay little or no income tax (e.g. retirees, the disabled and lower wage workers) more so than those who are financially better off.

I don't disagree but that is not my point. My point is that I do not support tax payer subsidy of corporate expenses , one of which is salaries, with programmes such as food stamps. Companies can choose to raise prices or absorb the costs , consumers can choose to buy or not buy. I honestly don't believe that a minimum wage increase, over time, will cause a significantjy raise the price of goods and services and I believe the benefits to the working poor will be much greater than any negative imact on their daily expenses.

 

[ttwtt78640]

How many poor people do you think would not be poor anymore if they were paid $15 per hour? The number of people in poverty obviously would drop. Poor people don't get that way by wasting thousands of dollars. They never had opportunities to ear thousands of dollars. When I was working, my highest salary BY FAR was $8.50 per hour. I worked overtime on the first weekend every month (position requirement) and was paid the overtime salary for that. And I STILL could not afford to live on my own if I had to.

Two people, each working full-time for $8.50/hour, would make over $34K/year which is more than my girlfriend and I live on now. When I was working low wage jobs it was also very difficult to live alone and I lived with a (working) roommate (or two) to share rent and utility costs which do not come close to doubling (or tripling) with cohabitation.

 

[GolfingChef]

You seem to have missed my point. If company A has some employees working (perhaps temporarily) on government contracts and other employees (not doing so) then they face ether giving either pay bumps (perhaps temporarily) only to those employees or paying all of their (similar) employees at the government contractor rate.

Gotcha. Sorry I did miss your point. This happens pretty regularly, or at least it did back in the day. Prior to joining the Marines I was a welder for a company that made all fire trucks, the cabs were all aluminum. We got a big contract with the AF to make them 100 CFR trucks. To be able to work on them you had to pass a certification test. Those that passed it and worked on the AF trucks got a "government contract" differential when working on the AF CFR trucks. It was in essences no different than a nightshift nurse getting paid more than a day shift nurse.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I don't disagree but that is not my point. My point is that I do not support tax payer subsidy of corporate expenses , one of which is salaries, with programmes such as food stamps. Companies can choose to raise prices or absorb the costs , consumers can choose to buy or not buy. I honestly don't believe that a minimum wage increase, over time, will cause a significantjy raise the price of goods and services and I believe the benefits to the working poor will be much greater than any negative imact on their daily expenses.

Yet, as you noted, the larger (corporate) employers tend to pay better and offer better promotion potential than the smaller (mom & pop) shops do. Thus a higher MW would impact the larger employers less than the smaller employers, many of which must already charge higher prices and use less (outside the family) labor just in order to stay in business.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Two people, each working full-time for $8.50/hour, would make over $34K/year which is more than my girlfriend and I live on now. When I was working low wage jobs it was also very difficult to live alone and I lived with a (working) roommate (or two) to share rent and utility costs which do not come close to doubling (or tripling) with cohabitation.

But I am not two people and definitely would have lived alone. I am far from the only poor person who never wanted to live with someone else as a working adult.

 

[Callen]

The Mom and Pops are already suffering as a result of the large box stores and it has nothing to do with minimum wage. There is nothing to say that a minimum wage could not be different depending on the size of the operation OR that there could be payroll tax breaks for the smaller operations. I have no issue with helping out small businesses with tax breaks but I have a huge issue with subsidizing the payrolls of large incredibly profitable corporations or franchises.

An increased minimum wage can be introduced in many different ways. People look at it way to simplistically in my view. Lots of interesting approaches , just requires some thought and a shared purpose....yeah I know

 

[ttwtt78640]

But I am not two people and definitely would have lived alone. I am far from the only poor person who never wanted to live with someone else as a working adult.

Hmm... so you decided to give up working to become more independent.

 

[ttwtt78640]

The Mom and Pops are already suffering as a result of the large box stores and it has nothing to do with minimum wage. There is nothing to say that a minimum wage could not be different depending on the size of the operation OR that there could be payroll tax breaks for the smaller operations. I have no issue with helping out small businesses with tax breaks but I have a huge issue with subsidizing the payrolls of large incredibly profitable corporations or franchises.

An increased minimum wage can be introduced in many different ways. People look at it way to simplistically in my view. Lots of interesting approaches , just requires some thought and a shared purpose....yeah I know

All the more reason to have state/local government control over such matters.

 

[VanceMack]

"Among his executive actions Friday, President Joe Biden set the stage for raising the minimum wage for federal contractors and employees to $15 an hour.

(well...no...he really didnt do anything at all)

Technically, he asked the Office of Personnel Management to come up with recommendations on doing that. But it’s laying the groundwork for a broader push to raise the federal minimum wage across the board. It has been stuck at $7.25 since 2009."

Because a president cant make or change laws. And neither can the OPM.

ASSUMING the fed writes contracts that insist a minimum wage of 15$ must be the standard for contractors to receive new federal contracts and ASSUMING the fed has the right to order private contractors what to pay their employees, at the end of the day, all that would mean is that now contractors would jack up the price of their federal contracts to accommodate such a demand.

Leftists are so ****ing stupid its scary.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

[QUOTE="ttwtt78640, post: 1073383964, member: 17816"Hmm . . . so you decided to give up working to become more independent.[/QUOTE]

Huh? I never even implied that nonsense. The reason I don't work anymore is I have medical conditions that make getting a job impossible. Unlike Ohio, in Florida there are no employment programs for disabled adults. If the President can fix that problem I would be interested in looking for work again.

 

[eohrnberger]

Minimum wage isn't supported to be a living wage. It's supposed to be a starting point for a working career.
If there are some who can't be bothered to take advantage of moving up the rungs in the ladder of success due to their life decisions, that's kinda their problem.

Hike the national minimum wage not only will you remove the first rung up the ladder from everyone, you'll also put many of those same people out of work, being replaced by automation.

Majority of economists are against it (that would be 'science' for the 'party of science' - wouldn't it?)

What Do Economists Think about the Minimum Wage? - Competitive Enterprise Institute

The playwright George Bernard Shaw once said that if you laid all the world’s economists end to end, they would not reach a conclusion. President Truman allegedly once asked for a one-handed economist, who would be unable to say “on the other hand…” Economists richly deserve such jokes. But...

cei.org

And the CBO itself has dire estimation what such a government, top-down, anti-market mandate would mean:

https://www.cbo.gov/system/files/2019-07/CBO-55410-MinimumWage2019.pdf

CBO’s finding that a $15 hourly minimum would result in 1.3 million jobs lost was a median estimate. CBO's upper estimate of 3.7 million jobs lost

Minimum wage bill could eliminate 1.3 million jobs, CBO says

The long-awaited CBO analysis could be a hurdle for Democrats as they eye a vote this month.

www.politico.com

So against all of the 'experts' and 'science' advice, based on ideology and 'feel good', this is the going to be the national public policy?
Seriously?