Biden administration approves first major US offshore windfarm

[joko104]

I bet they are not offshore in sight of the Kennedy or Obama compounds.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Will someone think of the birds?!?!?!? Wait, what?

 

[trouble13]

You seem to act like this is not already a proven technology and I am telling you that it is. Resistance is futile and is a major reason we are behind in so many areas. How are we ever going to catch up if we have a country of neanderthals who are afraid of change?

Of course only neanderthals would dare to ask questions before deciding if it is something they support or not. It is a mark of intelligence to blindy rush to support anything the left tell us we should support. I will stick with being labeled a neanderthal and continue to question things and think for myself. I rather be that than an intelligent lemming following the other intelligent lemmings over the cliff.

 

[Helix]

hopefully a lot of windfarms are built before Republicans regain power.

 

[iguanaman]

Of course only neanderthals would dare to ask questions before deciding if it is something they support or not. It is a mark of intelligence to blindy rush to support anything the left tell us we should support. I will stick with being labeled a neanderthal and continue to question things and think for myself. I rather be that than an intelligent lemming following the other intelligent lemmings over the cliff.

We are already behind in alternate energy and it is not a "mark of intelligence" to blindly object to all changes no matter how proven they are because you don't like change. You are not thinking at all so stop fooling yourself. It is tiring to keep dragging neanderthals kicking and screaming into a better future but that is what we will do regardless. We have no choice do we? I just wonder where the American spirit for innovation and adventure has gone and it worries me that we will never regain our rightful place in the world without it.

 

[trouble13]

We are already behind in alternate energy and it is not a "mark of intelligence" to blindly object to all changes no matter how proven they are because you don't like change. You are not thinking at all so stop fooling yourself. It is tiring to keep dragging neanderthals kicking and screaming into a better future but that is what we will do regardless. We have no choice do we? I just wonder where the American spirit for innovation and adventure has gone and it worries me that we will never regain our rightful place in the world without it.

This post is so insane I do not know how to even address it. I did not object to wind power plants being built. I simply added some caveats to it. It must be economical and reliable.

 

[Deuce]

That'll lower gas prices and stop the long gas lines

You have a cure for idiots panic buying shit that isn't actually low on supply?

 

[Deuce]

Of course only neanderthals would dare to ask questions before deciding if it is something they support or not. It is a mark of intelligence to blindy rush to support anything the left tell us we should support. I will stick with being labeled a neanderthal and continue to question things and think for myself. I rather be that than an intelligent lemming following the other intelligent lemmings over the cliff.

Immediately assuming something is bad purely because liberals support it doesn't make you a free thinker, it makes you a particularly obnoxious sort of sheep.

 

[trouble13]

Immediately assuming something is bad purely because liberals support it doesn't make you a free thinker, it makes you a particularly obnoxious sort of sheep.

Who did that?

 

[phoenix2020]

This post is so insane I do not know how to even address it. I did not object to wind power plants being built. I simply added some caveats to it. It must be economical and reliable.

FWIW in case this helps to reassure, major power projects typically are economical by nature of how power acquisition works. Usually, the builder or operator of the plant--whatever form it takes--enters into what's called a PPA or Power Purchase Agreement with a utility. In the agreement the utility agrees to pay for X amount of energy at Y cost (in $/MWh) for a long period of time - typically 20 years. This agreement is fairly iron clad and provides the justification for the project. It also defines a very clear cost for the plant itself that the builder/operator has to live within. Otherwise they are left holding the bag. "Too big to fail" doesn't work so well when the utility is sourcing power from hundreds of locations.

Because of this, in most developed nations, therefore, generators are very careful to predict the cost and stick to it. It's very different from your typical military porkbarrel spending. Likewise the utilities are insistent on this partly because (a) they can't go raising prices willy-nilly and (b) they already have a HUGE and unpredictable cost burden in the form of maintaining distribution infrastructure which as anyone who's followed California's recent experience can attest to, can be tremendous. They don't need their energy generators adding to the problem with cost overruns.

There are counter-examples for example solar in India where projects are consistently under-quoted to win the project, then fall apart / go back to the drawing table during the detailed architecture phase when it becomes clear the cost is far higher than the winning bid. In those cases the utilities don't say "here's an extra $ Billion." They cancel the project.

 

[trouble13]

FWIW in case this helps to reassure, major power projects typically are economical by nature of how power acquisition works. Usually, the builder or operator of the plant--whatever form it takes--enters into what's called a PPA or Power Purchase Agreement with a utility. In the agreement the utility agrees to pay for X amount of energy at Y cost (in $/MWh) for a long period of time - typically 20 years. This agreement is fairly iron clad and provides the justification for the project. It also defines a very clear cost for the plant itself that the builder/operator has to live within. Otherwise they are left holding the bag. "Too big to fail" doesn't work so well when the utility is sourcing power from hundreds of locations.

Because of this, in most developed nations, therefore, generators are very careful to predict the cost and stick to it. It's very different from your typical military porkbarrel spending. Likewise the utilities are insistent on this partly because (a) they can't go raising prices willy-nilly and (b) they already have a HUGE and unpredictable cost burden in the form of maintaining distribution infrastructure which as anyone who's followed California's recent experience can attest to, can be tremendous. They don't need their energy generators adding to the problem with cost overruns.

There are counter-examples for example solar in India where projects are consistently under-quoted to win the project, then fall apart / go back to the drawing table during the detailed architecture phase when it becomes clear the cost is far higher than the winning bid. In those cases the utilities don't say "here's an extra $ Billion." They cancel the project.

I am not against windfarms if they provide competively priced energy. Even if they turn out to be a bit unreliable in bad weather I can see them as being useful as a supplemental energy source to be drawn from.

 

[phoenix2020]

I am not against windfarms if they provide competively priced energy. Even if they turn out to be a bit unreliable in bad weather I can see them as being useful as a supplemental energy source to be drawn from.

Unfortunately wind turbines are not nearly as reliable as solar and nuclear (it's an electromechanical system exposed to the elements that's not designed to be fully fault tolerant...) so while as a grid source it's OK since losing 1 turbine out of 84 isn't a disaster, having to service at least one of them every ~week (my guess) is not great--especially when they are off-shore.

 

[Roadvirus]

One problem with windfarms is they **** up weather radars.

Wind turbine clutter or interference that shows up on the base reflectivity and velocity images produced by the doppler radar can have several impacts including:

• Thunderstorm or winter storm characteristics could be masked or misinterpreted, reducing warning effectiveness in the vicinity of, and downrange of the wind farm.
• False signatures contaminating Doppler velocity data in the vicinity and downrange of the wind energy facility could reduce forecaster's situational awarness, particularly during hazardous/severe weather events.
• Data masking or contamination if thunderstorms develop over the wind farm may negatively impact warning effectiveness.
• False precipitation estimates could negatively impact flash-flood warning effectiveness.

Wind Farm Interference Shows Up on Doppler Radar

www.weather.gov

 

[Mircea]

According to a study conducted at a wind farm on the Norwegian archipelago of Smøla, changing the color of a single blade on a turbine from white to black resulted in a 70-percent drop in the number of bird deaths.​

And so, in 2013, each of the four turbines in the test group had a single blade painted black. In the three years that followed, only six birds were found dead due to striking their turbine blades. By comparison, 18 bird deaths were recorded by the four control wind turbines—a 71.9-percent reduction in the annual fatality rate.

That's not impressive, and it is flawed, since it does not account for birds who die and fall into the sea or are injured and die elsewhere outside the area of the turbines.

 

[uptower]

Why do you think this project is a Democrat/Republican issue? It's been in review for 9 years - which president kept it tied up for the first five?

The issue is more with the elite locals of that area who don't want to 'ruin their view'.

I think there's some common ground to be had here. There are rich people out there who may also happen to be so-called 'elites' who presumably vote Democrat (it's kind of a boogeyman construct but let's entertain it for now) and while they're all for green energy, would probably prefer it to be tucked away on some native reservation or something. They'll have to pony too, up and accept a compromise on their sea views if they truly support sustainability.

 

[uptower]

And so, in 2013, each of the four turbines in the test group had a single blade painted black. In the three years that followed, only six birds were found dead due to striking their turbine blades. By comparison, 18 bird deaths were recorded by the four control wind turbines—a 71.9-percent reduction in the annual fatality rate.

That's not impressive, and it is flawed, since it does not account for birds who die and fall into the sea or are injured and die elsewhere outside the area of the turbines.

Has a study ever been done to compare how many birds are killed by wind turbines as compared to how many birds, fish, snakes, bees, bears, bugs and f*** it people choke, are poisoned, get cancer and otherwise die from the industrial scale pollution caused by fossil fuels?

Yes, there are a handful of bird deaths. It has been demonstrated these can be reduced and mitigated. Better than the way it was folks.

 

[Hatuey]

One problem with windfarms is they **** up weather radars.

Your link states the solution to this "problem":

The best mitigation technique is to avoid locating wind turbines in the radar line of sight (RLOS) of the doppler radar. The National Weather Service is conducting an outreach program to ensure the wind energy industry and developers are aware of NWS Doppler Radar locations and the potential impacts on radar data. The NWS Radar Operations Center (ROC) works with these developers and suggests mitigation options to consider.

Next problem?

 

[Hatuey]

Let's admit it.

It doesnt matter how green and how easy to obtain the electricity is, some folks have an interest in never ever making it viable. If green, machine made energy ever becomes the norm, they cant romanticize shit like coal mining, and oil wells.

You cant make country songs about steel blades quietly moving in the distance or get people to say there isnt enough power to fix roads, or infrastructure if the energy's cost is mainly building the machine to get it.

It is all so see through.

 

[dcsports]

Let's admit it.

It doesnt matter how green and how easy to obtain the electricity is, some folks have an interest in never ever making it viable. If green, machine made energy ever becomes the norm, they cant romanticize shit like coal mining, and oil wells.

You cant make country songs about steel blades quietly moving in the distance or get people to say there isnt enough power to fix roads, or infrastructure if the energy's cost is mainly building the machine to get it.

It is all so see through.

Interesting perspective, but you might think about who is supporting clean energy and who isn't. Texas, for example, generates more than 20% of it's energy from renewable sources - 20% of the nation's renewable energy excluding hydroelectric. 2021 wind is estimated at 24%. 9% from nuclear - which is capped by the EPA, not the capacity of the plant. Massachusetts gets less than 1% of it's energy from renewable sources. People there have been fighting this project.

 

[SgtRock]

I see dead albatross

 

[Metric Mouse]

800 MW is nothing to sneeze at. Very impressive output for only 84 turbines.

Is that right? Isn't that like 10x what a normal wind turbine produces?

 

[Metric Mouse]

It's unusual for a female to express interest in mechanical things. That's usually a guy thing.

Yuck.

 

[Metric Mouse]

Interesting perspective, but you might think about who is supporting clean energy and who isn't. Texas, for example, generates more than 20% of it's energy from renewable sources - 20% of the nation's renewable energy excluding hydroelectric. 2021 wind is estimated at 24%. 9% from nuclear - which is capped by the EPA, not the capacity of the plant. Massachusetts gets less than 1% of it's energy from renewable sources. People there have been fighting this project.

Really? **** those backwards cousin kissing ****s in Massachusetts. What is wrong with them?

 

[Port & Starboard]

Residents upset over Cape Cod wind-farm plan / Clean power source would be unsightly, opponents argue

A native Cape Codder, he knows firsthand the value of the pristine beaches of nearby...

www.sfgate.com

Wonderful...does this mean the elitists arent going to block it like they did in 2012, or have they simply moved it to a place where the peasants have to look upon them?

The "swimmer" is dead now.

They can use wind farms.

 

[phoenix2020]

Is that right? Isn't that like 10x what a normal wind turbine produces?

That is what surprised me, I thought they were around ~2MW but I am certainly not an expert and haven’t made time to understand if there have been recent developments or if off-shore turbine are higher output by design.