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mikeey

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How can the USA support the terrorist Began as President of Israel, who killed British soldiers, American allies, in 1947- 48. You tell me my American friends, whose allies are you Israel's or Britain's? Let's hear your voices again

Mikeey
 

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How can they support the British government who took the Jewish immigrant's back to the Prison Camp's at the newly remade Death Camp of Dachau and Bergen Belson? Or the arming of Arab militia men which led to the British led massacre at Haifa? Or perhap's the British Exicution of captured Haganah simply to put fear into the Jew's, even though their actual transgressions were not even known.

It goes both ways.
 

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How can the Jewish people who went through hell in Nazi Germany inflict the same fate on others. Can you blame the palestineians for fighting back against oppression? Why can the two peoples live in peace in a state that doesn't favour one religion over another. Jesus said he came not only to save the house of Israel, but the whole world. He said to love god, and to love your neighbour as yourself. If we all did that wouldn't the world be a better place.

Mikeey
 

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mikeey said:
How can the USA support the terrorist Began as President of Israel, who killed British soldiers, American allies, in 1947- 48. You tell me my American friends, whose allies are you Israel's or Britain's? Let's hear your voices again

Mikeey
Didn't Anwar Sadat, a former Egyptian terrorist win the Nobel Prize along with Begin? I believe it was because they renounced terrorism.

Did we support you in the Falkland Islands? WWII?
 

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MiamiFlorida said:
Didn't Anwar Sadat, a former Egyptian terrorist win the Nobel Prize along with Begin? I believe it was because they renounced terrorism.

Did we support you in the Falkland Islands? WWII?
Really?!? I have issues with someone winning the Nobel Peace Prize because they stopped doing something wrong.
 

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mikeey said:
How can the Jewish people who went through hell in Nazi Germany inflict the same fate on others. Can you blame the palestineians for fighting back against oppression? Why can the two peoples live in peace in a state that doesn't favour one religion over another. Jesus said he came not only to save the house of Israel, but the whole world. He said to love god, and to love your neighbour as yourself. If we all did that wouldn't the world be a better place.

Mikeey
Are you really trying to make the comparison of the Nazi death camps to what is happening in Palestine????????
 

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Navy Pride said:
Are you really trying to make the comparison of the Nazi death camps to what is happening in Palestine????????
Good Point.:applaud
 

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That is exactly the comparison that I was making. The palistinians have been kept in these camps with inadequate sanitationand medical supplies, high death rates during childhood, perhaps there were no gas chambers but are the palestinians merely suffering longer in atrocious conditions before they die.The nazi death camps only lasted for 6 years maximum, but the palistinians have been moved from pillar to post in various enclosures for over 30 years.

Mikeey
 

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Yes eventually you did support us in WW11, but only after Pearl Harbour because it now suited you, if Pearl harbour hadn't occured you would have just procrastinated like you had been doing until then. Where were you When Germany invaded Poland and people were fleeing to safety because of Nazi attrocities, Churchill had asked for support from President Roosevelt on many occasions before the Japanese finally forced your hand.

As regards the Falklands war. How many American troops were at Goose Green?

Mikeey
 

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mikeey said:
That is exactly the comparison that I was making. The palistinians have been kept in these camps with inadequate sanitationand medical supplies, high death rates during childhood, perhaps there were no gas chambers but are the palestinians merely suffering longer in atrocious conditions before they die.The nazi death camps only lasted for 6 years maximum, but the palistinians have been moved from pillar to post in various enclosures for over 30 years.

Mikeey
If you want to tote the refugee camp's as death camp's then your not blaming Israel, your blaming the Arabs. When the Palestinians were moved into Refugee camp's in Jordan, Syria and the West Bank (Under Jordanian Control) they were at the mercy of the Arabs. Rather than let them go and accept citizenship in any of those various nations they were kept in the ever worsening camp's to bring about political sympathy and use as a political weapon. The Arabs could end it any time they want, let the Palestinians out of the refugee camp's and give them citizenship. After all they are their Arab brothers. :roll:
We have nothing to do with the refugee camp's, and sending several hundred thousand Arab's with nothing to their name but anger into Gaza and the West Bank isn't gonig to solve anything, it will only incrase the poverty, and violence.


As regards the Falklands war. How many American troops were at Goose Green?

Who's satallites did you use to figure out where the Argentinians were going? The Americans. Who's intelligence did you use since you didn't no jack about their navy? The CIA.
 

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mikeey said:
How can the Jewish people who went through hell in Nazi Germany inflict the same fate on others. Can you blame the palestineians for fighting back against oppression? Why can the two peoples live in peace in a state that doesn't favour one religion over another. Jesus said he came not only to save the house of Israel, but the whole world. He said to love god, and to love your neighbour as yourself. If we all did that wouldn't the world be a better place.
If there was a single Nation of Israeli's/Palestine then one would have to assum that democracy would be the chosen governmental type. This of course would suit the Palestinians but not the Israelis since democracy is a Dictatorship of the majority and the Palestinians outnumber the Israelis considerably. Israel would be kind of annoyed at losing its Holy Land to a democratic state run by Muslims :D

I have also read a LOT on these boards about the Nazi concentration camps and how the Nazis were "evil" etc.. Has everyone forgotten here that the Jewish civilisation declared a Holy War in 1933 on the German Nation? Or don't they teach that in history class anymore? :doh

superskippy said:
If you want to tote the refugee camp's as death camp's then your not blaming Israel, your blaming the Arabs. When the Palestinians were moved into Refugee camp's in Jordan, Syria and the West Bank (Under Jordanian Control) they were at the mercy of the Arabs. Rather than let them go and accept citizenship in any of those various nations they were kept in the ever worsening camp's to bring about political sympathy and use as a political weapon. The Arabs could end it any time they want, let the Palestinians out of the refugee camp's and give them citizenship. After all they are their Arab brothers.
We have nothing to do with the refugee camp's, and sending several hundred thousand Arab's with nothing to their name but anger into Gaza and the West Bank isn't gonig to solve anything, it will only incrase the poverty, and violence.
Given that Israel was a usurping force which kicked the Palestinians off of their land, I would disagree and state quite firmly that Israel is to blame for the deaths and suffering directly by process of invasion. They also imprison at will those they "suspect" of freedom fighting activities without parole hearings and in direct violations of the articles of the Geneva Convention. Not to mention retaliations against a Nation for the actions of rogue militant element. Would be on a par with Britain bombing Ireland for the actions of the IRA. Its simply not a plausible response.

The Palestinians should have been allowed citizenship in Israel but they were not granted this because to do so under a democratic government would have led to a Palestinian majority in government meaning they lose their Holy State and the Zionist foothold on World governmental influence. I cannot understand why you have chosen to omit this very important aspect from your reply to mikeey.
 

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They don't outnumber us, West Bank 3,700,000 and the Gaza Strip 1,213,000. Us 6.7 million, we have more than a million on them. So the upper half of your article is incorrect.


I have also read a LOT on these boards about the Nazi concentration camps and how the Nazis were "evil" etc.. Has everyone forgotten here that the Jewish civilisation declared a Holy War in 1933 on the German Nation? Or don't they teach that in history class anymore

I don't think your going to find a single person on the board's who will be on your side with this one. Please don't even try to justify the Nazi's actions. They were the most brutal regime ever to walk the face of the earth.

Given that Israel was a usurping force which kicked the Palestinians off of their land, I would disagree and state quite firmly that Israel is to blame for the deaths and suffering directly by process of invasion. They also imprison at will those they "suspect" of freedom fighting activities without parole hearings and in direct violations of the articles of the Geneva Convention. Not to mention retaliations against a Nation for the actions of rogue militant element. Would be on a par with Britain bombing Ireland for the actions of the IRA. Its simply not a plausible response.


Not really, who invaded us in 1948? The Arabs. The Palestinians were told that we woudl butcher them if they came under our control so the bulk of the refugee's moved east towards the West Bank, or rather Western Jordan. We did not force them out they left, we in fact told the Palestinians not to flee and to stay and build a nation with us. That was the initial announcment after our indipendance was declared. We imprison terrorists, we imprison the people who are to afraid to battle our military and instead bomb a bus full of innocent people.

The Palestinians should have been allowed citizenship in Israel but they were not granted this because to do so under a democratic government would have led to a Palestinian majority in government meaning they lose their Holy State and the Zionist foothold on World governmental influence. I cannot understand why you have chosen to omit this very important aspect from your reply to mikeey.

If your bran was full of anything other than idiocy, you would know that we have accepted hundreds of thousands as citizens. 18% of our citizenry are Moslem Arabs or Palestinians. The people in the West Bank and Gaza do not want citizenship. They want war.

Again I will say they are not the Majority as you seem to have written off in your head.
 

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I debate in a respectful tone and manner my friend, I would appreciate if you show me the same courtesy. Your opinions may differ to mine but that is no reason to be insulting.

My number post was incorrect, I meant it insofar as the Israeli's would lose a Zionist state due to ethnic marginalisation such as what we can see in the percentage of Christians living in Jeruslahem prior and post Israeli occupation.

I did NOT justify the Nazi's actions. I asked if people were aware that the Jewish civilisation decalred a Holy War on Germany prior to WW2. Are people aware of the Belfour Document in which the Zionists who were prospering in Germany prior to and during WW1 signed an agreement with Britain that if they brought America into the war against Germany the British in return would help them regain their Holy Land in Palestine. How does this "justify" anything? It is a question with regard to awareness.

Arab Nations invaded Israel in 1948 in DIRECT response to Israel's insurrection in Palestine.

On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab sectors. There was violent and total Arab opposition, but wild Jewish acclaim. Fighting started almost immediately.

Even before the mandate ended, in April and May, Jewish fighters moved to protect, consolidate and widen the territory for the new Jewish state. Often they attacked areas designated for Arabs, and tried to depopulate Arab areas in the planned Jewish sector.

On April 9, Jewish fighters massacred more than 200 Palestinian villagers, including old people, women and children, in the West Jerusalem village of Deir Yassin, causing widespread panic and greatly augmenting the flight of Palestinians from their homes across the country.

As the Jewish authorities had predicted, Arab armies from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon tried to invade Palestine as soon as the British forces actually left. But the Arab campaign was a generally badly organised, uncoordinated affair with untrained units who were no match for the Haganah and, later, the Israeli Defence Force.

http://www.raceandhistory.com/worldhotspots/Israel.htm

The Irish fought a war of independence along the same lines as the Palestinians are doing against the occupying British Nation. It is folly to stand toe to toe with an enemy who has better training, bigger numbers and better weapons. Cowardice has nothing to do with it. Please read Sun Tzu and the Art of War written 2000 years ago which advocates the use of guerrilla warfare as a viable and effective tactic in war.
 

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I did NOT justify the Nazi's actions. I asked if people were aware that the Jewish civilisation decalred a Holy War on Germany prior to WW2. Are people aware of the Belfour Document in which the Zionists who were prospering in Germany prior to and during WW1 signed an agreement with Britain that if they brought America into the war against Germany the British in return would help them regain their Holy Land in Palestine. How does this "justify" anything? It is a question with regard to awareness

The Balfour Declaration was to get much needed fund's from the world's Jew's for the British war effort, it was to garner support from the wealthy Zionest Congress in America. It had nothing to do with Jew's in Germany, my Great Grandfather fought in the trenches in France for Germany for three years.

On November 29, 1947, the UN General Assembly voted to partition Palestine into Jewish and Arab sectors. There was violent and total Arab opposition, but wild Jewish acclaim. Fighting started almost immediately.

Fighting had been going on since the Arab revolt of 1936, and even before that. By 1939 battles in the streets and hills were a common place thing. The reason partition was granted was because of the years of fighting that had existed between us.

Even before the mandate ended, in April and May, Jewish fighters moved to protect, consolidate and widen the territory for the new Jewish state. Often they attacked areas designated for Arabs, and tried to depopulate Arab areas in the planned Jewish sector.


Of course we did! So did the Arabs! Once partition was declared the Mandate had a few month's left to run, both sides Jew and Arab spent the time fighting over area's and building up munitions. Near open war erupted once it was declared. The Arabs laid siege to Jerusalem effectivly weeks before the Mandate ended, and we were driving them from Tel'Aviv and Haifai. They assailed Kibbutz, we assailed towns.

On April 9, Jewish fighters massacred more than 200 Palestinian villagers, including old people, women and children, in the West Jerusalem village of Deir Yassin, causing widespread panic and greatly augmenting the flight of Palestinians from their homes across the country.

First off the Arabs who fled, fled during the first few days of the war, at the heeding of their Arab brothers, they did not want to get caught in the crossfire. The massacre was carried out by a terror wing of the Irgun and the Lechi. It is an un-excusable massacre but not the fault of our government.


As the Jewish authorities had predicted, Arab armies from Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Iraq and Lebanon tried to invade Palestine as soon as the British forces actually left. But the Arab campaign was a generally badly organised, uncoordinated affair with untrained units who were no match for the Haganah and, later, the Israeli Defence Force.

True the Arabs were terrible planners, and could not work together as they should have been able to, but even then they had an Air Force, they had tanks, they had artillary, they had AMMUNITION. Egypt alone should have been capable of defeating us. The Haganah won by tenacity and resourcefulness. We had no grand army, no tanks, no artillary worth mentioning, we had no planes until the latter half of the war, and ammunition was always an issue as was getting machineguns. We were outgunned and outnumbered and out classed. Yet we won.


Arab Nations invaded Israel in 1948 in DIRECT response to Israel's insurrection in Palestine.

How can an Indipendant State launch an insurrection, in it's own territory? We declared our indipendance on the ground alotted to us, and the Arabs attacked. They coudl not stand a Jewish State. The Arab leaders so boastfully claimed that fact as the engine of war moved forward.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong but is it not the belief of the Jewish community that they support each other across the world? And so would it not be true to say that Zionist lobbying of the British to cede the Balfour Agreement represented Jews across the world?

Again I ask you to specify how my comments earlier "justified" Nazi actions in your mind.

Please also confirm whether or not you are aware that the Jewish community declared Holy War on Germany in 1933. Quoting Mr. Untermeyer, "The Jews of the world now declare a Holy War against Germany. We are now engaged in a sacred conflict against the Germans. And we are going to starve them into surrender. We are going to use a world-wide boycott against them, that will destroy them because they are dependent upon their export business."

This is before a single hair was ever harmed on any Jewish head by the Germans. The Jews however were being persecuted at that time in Poland and in Russia leading to mass illegal immigration to Palestine. Illegal due to the white paper British document which only allowed a set number of Jewish immigrants per year.

The partition was granted because of the previous Treaty at Versailles were 117 Jewish representatives presented the Balfour Agreement when Europe and the middle-east were being carved. "What about Palestine for us" they queried. At which point the Germans having never heard of this document before must have been more than a little miffed considering the Jews in Germany had never prospered more in any country anywhere, as they had in Germany. With no "real" reason for America having joined the war at all on the British side otehr than the document, and with the knowledge that the Jews controlled all the media in the USA at the time, it hardly took a rocket sceinetist to figure out that Zionism had betrayed a country in which its followers has prospered for a piece of land.

superskippy said:
First off the Arabs who fled, fled during the first few days of the war, at the heeding of their Arab brothers, they did not want to get caught in the crossfire. The massacre was carried out by a terror wing of the Irgun and the Lechi. It is an un-excusable massacre but not the fault of our government.
1. Can you do me a favour and provide me with something that backs up the Arabs feeling at the behest of their brothers as opposed to being driven out?

2. I note what you say about the massacre and while I may agree, I would ask you in return if the actions of the Palestinian militant group Hamass could be considered the fault of the Palestinian people? Bear in mind that Israel has launched missiles, persecuted civilians and destroyed infrastructure in Palestine randomly in response to such attacks. If your argument works one way then it can also work the other.

superskippy said:
True the Arabs were terrible planners, and could not work together as they should have been able to, but even then they had an Air Force, they had tanks, they had artillary, they had AMMUNITION. Egypt alone should have been capable of defeating us. The Haganah won by tenacity and resourcefulness. We had no grand army, no tanks, no artillary worth mentioning, we had no planes until the latter half of the war, and ammunition was always an issue as was getting machineguns. We were outgunned and outnumbered and out classed. Yet we won.
Can you provide me with a link to an objective account of the military forces available to both sides at the start and the end of the war. Thanks.

superskippy said:
How can an Indipendant State launch an insurrection, in it's own territory? We declared our indipendance on the ground alotted to us, and the Arabs attacked. They coudl not stand a Jewish State. The Arab leaders so boastfully claimed that fact as the engine of war moved forward.
The land was allotted on the basis of agreements made with controlling world entities by Zionists which went back to their betrayal of Germany in WW1 and before. Do not get me wrong, I am quite happy that Israel has its own little area and Holy Land etc... But the Allies had made agreements also with the Arab Nation granting them lands in Palestine also. Now the Western World saw Israel as a legal forming state, but the Arabs saw it as an insurrection. Does that make our view right and theirs wrong? No. It just makes it different points of view.
 

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Thank you I agree with you totally, and I could not have put it better myself my Irish friend.
My kind regards
Mikeey.

PS god bless the celts.
 

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Again I ask you to specify how my comments earlier "justified" Nazi actions in your mind.

Saying that the Jew's declared war on Germany has only one route that you would try and prove I beleived. If it is otherwise I apologise. Also I never recall the World's Jew's making a decleration of holy war against Germany. In fact my great grandfather stayed a loyal German until he and his family were sent to the camps.

The partition was granted because of the previous Treaty at Versailles were 117 Jewish representatives presented the Balfour Agreement when Europe and the middle-east were being carved. "What about Palestine for us" they queried. At which point the Germans having never heard of this document before must have been more than a little miffed considering the Jews in Germany had never prospered more in any country anywhere, as they had in Germany. With no "real" reason for America having joined the war at all on the British side otehr than the document, and with the knowledge that the Jews controlled all the media in the USA at the time, it hardly took a rocket sceinetist to figure out that Zionism had betrayed a country in which its followers has prospered for a piece of land.

The Balfour Decleration had no true premise, it merely said that the British Government favored the idea of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine.

Oh? Having ship's sunk left and right on the Atlantic, and then intercepting a message to a neighboring nation offering support in a war against you, that is not reason?

Oh come on we controlled the media? This is the early
1900's were talking about we did not control squat. In addition we never have controlled the media.

1. Can you do me a favour and provide me with something that backs up the Arabs feeling at the behest of their brothers as opposed to being driven out?

Khalid al-`Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister at the time wrote in he memoirs about it.

Fifth: the Arab governments' invitation to the people of Palestine to flee from it and seek refuge in adjacent Arab countries, after terror had spread among their ranks in the wake of the Deir Yassin event. This mass flight has benefited the Jews and the situation stablized in their favor without effort.
...
Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homeland, while it is we who constrained them to leave it. Between the invitation extended to the refugees and the request to the United Nations to decide upon their return, there elapsed only a few months.
-Al-`Azm, Mudhakarat (al-Dar al Muttahida lil-Nashr, Beirut, 1972), Volume I, pp 386-7.

The former Prime Minister of Syria, Khalid al'Azm, in his memoirs Mudhakkirat Khalid al'Azm, I, 386, wrote: 'We brought destruction on 1 million Arab refugees by calling upon them and pleading with them repeatedly to leave their lands and homes and factories.' (I am grateful to Dr Gideon Weigart of Jerusalem for this reference.) But I have found no contemporary evidence of such blanket, official 'calls' by any Arab government. And I have found no evidence that the Palestinians or any substantial group left because they heard such 'calls' or orders by outside Arab leaders. The only, minor, exceptions to this are the traces of the order, apparently by the Syrians, to some of the inhabitants of Eastern Galilee to leave a few days prior to, and in preparation for, the invasion of 15-16 May. This order affected at most several thousand Palestinians and, in any case, 'dovetailed' with Haganah efforts to drive out the population in this area. (Morris, 2003, p. 269).

Morris goes on to speculate that, although al'Azm may have been referring to the minor Syrian order mentioned above, it is more probable that "he inserted the claim to make some point within the context of inter-Arab polemics (i.e., blaming fellow Arab leaders for the exodus)."




Can you provide me with a link to an objective account of the military forces available to both sides at the start and the end of the war. Thanks.

It's common knowledge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Arab-Israeli_War.

The land was allotted on the basis of agreements made with controlling world entities by Zionists which went back to their betrayal of Germany in WW1 and before. Do not get me wrong, I am quite happy that Israel has its own little area and Holy Land etc... But the Allies had made agreements also with the Arab Nation granting them lands in Palestine also. Now the Western World saw Israel as a legal forming state, but the Arabs saw it as an insurrection. Does that make our view right and theirs wrong? No. It just makes it different points of view.

They did get land in Palestine, thay get the better part of the deal in fact, but they did not want to live alongside the Jewish people and assailed us. Also their is no Zionist betrayel, the zionest congress is an organization which is not affiliated with Germany. The Jew's of Germany fought in the trench's just like my Great Grandfather. My Grandfather would always tell me how his father (My great Grand Father) told him that the Fatherland betrayed him. My Great Grandgather was a loyal German, he put his life down for the Fatherland and served for three years in the trenches. The Fatherland betrayed him, and the German Jews.

Also your reasoning for the Arab views is flawed, a different view point is one thing but how you describe it
2+2=4 is just one view point, 2+2=5 is another. Which is inherantly incorrect.
 

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superskippy said:
Saying that the Jew's declared war on Germany has only one route that you would try and prove I beleived. If it is otherwise I apologise. Also I never recall the World's Jew's making a decleration of holy war against Germany.
In 1933, Mr. Untermeyer, went to ABC and made a radio broadcast throughout the United States in which he said:

"The Jews of the world now declare a Holy War against Germany. We are now engaged in a sacred conflict against the Germans. And we are going to starve them into surrender. We are going to use a world-wide boycott against them, that will destroy them because they are dependent upon their export business."

And it is a fact that two thirds of Germany's food supply had to be imported, and it could only be imported with the proceeds of what they exported. Their labor. So if Germany could not export, two thirds of Germany's population would have to starve. There just was not enough food for more than one third of the population.

Now in this declaration, which I have here, it was printed on page -- a whole page -- in the New York Times on August 7, 1933, Mr. Samuel Untermyer boldly stated that: "this economic boycott is our means of self-defense. President Roosevelt has advocated its use in the NRA" . [National Recovery Administration] -- which some of you may remember, where everybody was to be boycotted unless they followed the rules laid down by the New Deal, which of course was declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court at that time.

superskippy said:
The Balfour Decleration had no true premise, it merely said that the British Government favored the idea of a Jewish Homeland in Palestine.
The history behind the Balfour declaration made it so much more.

The Lusitania, which I believe is the ship you were speaking of was carrying amunitions and was a viable sinking target. It would be much like us complaining about a Nation placing civilians in Military targets so ensure that striking those facilities would result in civilian casualties. Same premise. The Lusitania was sunk on 7th May 1915 and America entered into the war on April 6, 1917. Nearly 2 full years later. This was not the reason for their entry. The Americans had no love for the British and had nothing to gain by entering into a war with Germany and the Austro-Hungarian Empire and helping British Imperialism thrive. Something America was so dead set against seeing continue in WW2 that Roosevelt deliberately made Churchill run around in cricles and only agree with what plans he wanted to hatch and how terrirtories would be split after the war.


Benjamin H. Freedman, a jew, and aide to both American presidents during both wars and a high ranking Zionist official exposed all of this in his speech given at the Willard Hotel in Washington, D. C. in 1961. Media networks in this day and age and most of Wall Street stock broker's are Jewish. This is a fact. It doesn't make them good or bad and that is not the light I am attempting to cast here. Simply the fact that the Protcols of Zion were stated and implemented and there were certain knock on effects of this which were inevitable.

superskippy said:
But I have found no contemporary evidence of such blanket, official 'calls' by any Arab government. And I have found no evidence that the Palestinians or any substantial group left because they heard such 'calls' or orders by outside Arab leaders. The only, minor, exceptions to this are the traces of the order, apparently by the Syrians, to some of the inhabitants of Eastern Galilee to leave a few days prior to, and in preparation for, the invasion of 15-16 May. This order affected at most several thousand Palestinians and, in any case, 'dovetailed' with Haganah efforts to drive out the population in this area. (Morris, 2003, p. 269).
So your post states that some left and most were driven out. Thanks :)

superskippy said:
Never assume that knowledge which seems common to you is common to others. The arms there are interesting. I note that much of what the Arabs had on paper was not serviceable but still it does look very much like the new Zionist state got lucky. Appreicate the link. Tell me though, can anyone add articles to that Wikipedia site?

superskippy said:
They did get land in Palestine, thay get the better part of the deal in fact, but they did not want to live alongside the Jewish people and assailed us. Also their is no Zionist betrayel, the zionest congress is an organization which is not affiliated with Germany.
The Jews didn't like the Czar in WW1and they didn't want Russia to win this war. So the German bankers -- the German-Jews -- Kuhn Loeb and the other big banking firms in the United States refused to finance France or England to the extent of one dollar. They stood aside and they said: "As long as France and England are tied up with Russia, not one cent!" But they poured money into Germany, they fought with Germany against Russia, trying to lick the Czarist regime.

After the Balfour agreement and considering that he Jews had never been better off in any country in the world than they had been in Germany given that you had Mr. Rathenau there, who was maybe 100 times as important in industry and finance as is Bernard Baruch in the USA. You had Mr. Balin, who owned the two big steamship lines, the North German Lloyd's and the Hamburg-American Lines. You had Mr. Bleichroder, who was the banker for the Hohenzollern family. You had the Warburgs in Hamburg, who were the big merchant bankers -- the biggest in the world. The Jews were doing very well in Germany. No question about that.

It was only after Britain signed the Balfour Agreement, supporting a jewish state in an area of the world it had NEVER had any interest in until that point that the Zionists started contributing huge amounts of cash to the British and French and lobbied the American government to join the war against Germany and ran newspaper articles making them out to be monsters where 6 montsh previous they were singing German praises. That could very much be conceived as a betrayal.

However, would I be correct in saying that when, on the Day of Atonement, you walk into a synagogue, the very first prayer that you recite, you stand -- and it's the only prayer for which you stand -- and you repeat three times a short prayer. The Kol Nidre. In that prayer, you enter into an agreement with God Almighty that any oath, vow, or pledge that you may make during the next twelve months - shall be null and void.

Of course that would alleviate any feeling of betrayal. This is not a judgement in any way shape or form. Its placing the pieces of history together in a fashion that makes sense.

superskippy said:
Also your reasoning for the Arab views is flawed, a different view point is one thing but how you describe it
If my reasoning is flawed please advise how and why in an argumentative format. Simply saying 2+2=5 regarding what I state is hardly an argument or intelligent stance to take when refuting another's reasoning. Its a cop-out.
 
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