• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Bans on Abortion hurt ALL women.

MW: No, they did not. A fetus is not a baby. It has no brain activity. It fails the test, "I think therefore I am." Furthermore, even if you're silly enough to think it's a baby it has no right to invade a woman's body against her will. They are causing her pain, sickness, and potentially permanent damage to her health. Whether they did it intentionally or not they have no right to inhabit someone else's body.

That there shows how uneducated on this subject you are. Yes, a fetus has brain activity. Where did you get the idea it doesn't? Have you ever been around a woman who is pregnant? And, I seriously am questions on whether you think therefore you are. And, yes, it is a baby, just not born yet. Hasn't passed through the canal to see who is making this nonsense up. Of all the nutty ideas again that the baby invaded a woman's body when it is the woman that wanted the sperm in her body that could impregnate her. How is that against her will? She is responsible for spreading her legs. She could have kept them locked at the knees if she didn't want to get pregnant. Of all the numbskull things to say. LOL!!! "The baby invaded the woman's body" HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! The next thing you are going to write is the stork brings babies to the tummy of the woman...

MW: And every woman that has a miscarriage will have to be treated like a murder suspect. Every miscarriage will require a homicide investigation.
Whether you had an abortion or not, whether you want your child or not, every single solitary woman who has a miscarriage will have to be questioned.

Before Roe v Wade, was every miscarriage treated like a murder suspect and homicide investigations took place? NO! NO, NO, NO...The fact is, most women don't go to the doctor if the miscarriage is withing the first 6 weeks unless there are complications. So Mr. soothsayer, tell me what exactly the laws will read like? You don't know or have any idea do you.

MW: Because you don't know whether it was a miscarriage or an intentional homicide unless you investigate it.
If you find a dead body anywhere the police must be called and an investigation into the cause of death must be held.
What happens if the woman took drugs? Alcohol? These things can lead to a miscarriage. Is that a murder? Is it negligent manslaughter? Is it an innocent miscarriage?

There are already laws on the books about fetal endangerment. And, the law makers will decide if there is any wrong doing based on those criteria. As before Roe v. Wade, these things you bring up did not exist in the law. So, I seriously doubt they will now. Once again, liberal hysteria takes over and makes things up. That's all you are doing here. And, absolutely nothing about the sanctity of life and the protection of the unborn children. More than 50% of the U.S. population now believes abortion is wrong for birth control sakes and should be outlawed. Here lies the real problem. Liberal Democrat believe only their line of thinking matters and everyone else has to sit down and shut up. Well, my answer to this is HELL NO!

You can't call abortion murder and then not have a homicide investigation when the body of a dead fetus is found. This applies to all dead fetuses, even natural miscarriages.
 
Who says I want to prove she is lying? If she is raped, she's raped.
Then she's allowed to have an abortion, right? In that case, she didn't choose to have sex.
So in this case, even a zealot like yourself would have allow her to abort. So what's going to prevent any woman that wants an abortion from simply claiming she was raped?
If that's all she has to do, then you can't stop abortion.
What is an "at-will-employee?" Are you drinking some eggnog and rum? No, they can't just find another job if they are firemen, policemen or many other jobs that pay the same.
Are you sure you're a Conservative? An at-will employee means that you can be fired at any time for any reason. That is a standard thing that Conservatives love because they hate workers and love to fire people.
The result is that if you want to work for the government you have to abide by the terms of employment set by your boss. That is the President of the United States. If he wants people vaccinated you can either get the shot or find a new job.
Again, we aren't talking about the woman's body. Abortion is the body of a separate person yet born.
No, it is not. It's a clump of cells that is entirely 100% dependent on the woman. It's a parasite. Forcing a woman to carry it against her will is a form of Slavery. You're literally forcing labor upon her against her will.
 
So few preemies survive at 20 to 24 weeks that its hard to say that they are actually points of viability in embryology. Even if they survive the chances of morbidity are extremely high.View attachment 67363789
For that reason, the actual accepted time frame for viability remains ~24 weeks. Before that is a huge crapshoot, not to mention that women cant often be precise on the date they became pregnant.
 
So if a woman says she was raped and wants an abortion how are you going to prove she's lying? Does someone have to be charged and convicted before she can abort?
Of course not. The burden of proof would be on the state, and all a woman has to do is claim she was raped to get an abortion. If that's true, why waste your time?
Worse yet, if you manage to successfully ban abortion the number of clinics in the country will drop to zero. So where is a raped woman supposed to get the abortion she wants?

Yes, they are. They are at-will employees. If they don't agree with the terms of their employment they can find another job.


Believe it. I'm correct, and you are very obviously wrong.


This is entirely irrelevant to this conversation. You believe guns are good, I believe women having the freedom to control their bodies is good.
The point is that banning either one will not eliminate them. It will make it harder for women who need and deserve abortion for necessary reasons to get them. Meanwhile, women simply using abortion for birth control will still get them.

No, they did not. A fetus is not a baby. It has no brain activity. It fails the test, "I think therefore I am." Furthermore, even if you're silly enough to think it's a baby it has no right to invade a woman's body against her will. They are causing her pain, sickness, and potentially permanent damage to her health. Whether they did it intentionally or not they have no right to inhabit someone else's body.

And every woman that has a miscarriage will have to be treated like a murder suspect. Every miscarriage will require a homicide investigation.
Whether you had an abortion or not, whether you want your child or not, every single solitary woman who has a miscarriage will have to be questioned.

Because you don't know whether it was a miscarriage or an intentional homicide unless you investigate it.
If you find a dead body anywhere the police must be called and an investigation into the cause of death must be held.
What happens if the woman took drugs? Alcohol? These things can lead to a miscarriage. Is that a murder? Is it negligent manslaughter? Is it an innocent miscarriage?

You can't call abortion murder and then not have a homicide investigation when the body of a dead fetus is found. This applies to all dead fetuses, even natural miscarriages.
AVvXsEiORqQVWLFRcLLJMnC1NhkqIPmt9W5ah2x9VFs0wBZ5oLWTZtMcgtPzIwcoaPTOX_04b7IeQQEWZkWRE8Xn34tHo1qhBTKISGsl6D1Y5LO5na_loFRLacL-U2wyEztjymyhXbHIVicQGDV7eRXQ_embGaFoWvZ7tXMosCECiCJuRnRkgBE-Mw
 
Then she's allowed to have an abortion, right? In that case, she didn't choose to have sex.
So in this case, even a zealot like yourself would have allow her to abort. So what's going to prevent any woman that wants an abortion from simply claiming she was raped?
If that's all she has to do, then you can't stop abortion.

Are you sure you're a Conservative? An at-will employee means that you can be fired at any time for any reason. That is a standard thing that Conservatives love because they hate workers and love to fire people.
The result is that if you want to work for the government you have to abide by the terms of employment set by your boss. That is the President of the United States. If he wants people vaccinated you can either get the shot or find a new job.

No, it is not. It's a clump of cells that is entirely 100% dependent on the woman. It's a parasite. Forcing a woman to carry it against her will is a form of Slavery. You're literally forcing labor upon her against her will.
You brought up the "rape." There are anti-abortionists who don't want abortion for any reason including the health of the mother. That isn't me. That isn't most anti-abortionists. We don't want it for birth control for poor personal choices by the man and the woman involved. What you want is the law that will be instigated. That's up to each state. I would suspect that most will demand a rape test which includes DNA. There will be safeguards put into place. But, the reality, the percentage of abortions due to rape and the health of the woman is low. Here is some information: The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. - https://www.guttmacher.org/journals...ons-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives

Rape and incest account for hardly any abortions. So why are ...
https://www.usatoday.com › news › nation › 2019/05/24

May 24, 2019 ---Just 1% of women obtain an abortion because they became pregnant through rape, and less than 0.5% do so because of incest.

So, your rant is redundant to take up more time on this angle of the reason for abortion. Most simply abort because of inconvenience and birth control.
 
You brought up the "rape." There are anti-abortionists who don't want abortion for any reason including the health of the mother. That isn't me. That isn't most anti-abortionists. We don't want it for birth control for poor personal choices by the man and the woman involved. What you want is the law that will be instigated. That's up to each state. I would suspect that most will demand a rape test which includes DNA. There will be safeguards put into place. But, the reality, the percentage of abortions due to rape and the health of the woman is low. Here is some information: The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents (74%); that she could not afford a baby now (73%); and that she did not want to be a single mother or was having relationship problems (48%). Nearly four in 10 women said they had completed their childbearing, and almost one-third were not ready to have a child. - https://www.guttmacher.org/journals...ons-quantitative-and-qualitative-perspectives

Rape and incest account for hardly any abortions. So why are ...
https://www.usatoday.com › news › nation › 2019/05/24

May 24, 2019 ---Just 1% of women obtain an abortion because they became pregnant through rape, and less than 0.5% do so because of incest.

So, your rant is redundant to take up more time on this angle of the reason for abortion. Most simply abort because of inconvenience and birth control.
If claiming rape was the only way to get an abortion every woman would do it and say it happened a week ago
 
If claiming rape was the only way to get an abortion every woman would do it and say it happened a week ago
Women have claimed rape and later found that they were lying. And, when they are found to be lying, then they have more legal issues. So, don't lie. Go to another state and have the abortion. Your mind is cluttered with Rape. Why?
 
You brought up the "rape." There are anti-abortionists who don't want abortion for any reason including the health of the mother. That isn't me.
No, I didn't. You did. You said women choose to have sex with the exception of rape. As a result, it is their own fault and they already had a choice.
But that means there is an exception in your own logic when it comes to rape.
That's up to each state. I would suspect
I'm interested in what you suspect, I'm interested in what you think is right.
that most will demand a rape test which includes DNA.
So the woman would still be required to prove she was raped?
All a rape test will show is that she had sex. Not whether it was consensual. We see men get away with rape all the time by claiming it was consensual.
As long as it's her word versus his you can't prove anything. So what happens then? If the woman says she was raped will you let her have the abortion or not?
But, the reality, the percentage of abortions due to rape and the health of the woman is low.
Irrelevant. If you make abortion illegal except in cases of Rape or the Health of the mother women will simply lie.
They'll say they were raped so they can have an abortion and it will be your responsibility to prove they're lying.
If that's true, you're not stopping anything.
The reasons most frequently cited were that having a child would interfere with a woman's education, work or ability to care for dependents
IRRELEVANT!!!
Abortion is currently legal today. So women don't have to lie in order to get one. But the second you ban abortion except in cases of rape women will lie and say they were raped.
Do you seriously think that a woman who wants to destroy her fetus would have a problem with lying?

So if you want to deny a woman an abortion how are you going to prove she wasn't raped?
 
No, I didn't. You did. You said women choose to have sex with the exception of rape. As a result, it is their own fault and they already had a choice.
But that means there is an exception in your own logic when it comes to rape.

I'm interested in what you suspect, I'm interested in what you think is right.

So the woman would still be required to prove she was raped?
All a rape test will show is that she had sex. Not whether it was consensual. We see men get away with rape all the time by claiming it was consensual.
As long as it's her word versus his you can't prove anything. So what happens then? If the woman says she was raped will you let her have the abortion or not?

Irrelevant. If you make abortion illegal except in cases of Rape or the Health of the mother women will simply lie.
They'll say they were raped so they can have an abortion and it will be your responsibility to prove they're lying.
If that's true, you're not stopping anything.

IRRELEVANT!!!
Abortion is currently legal today. So women don't have to lie in order to get one. But the second you ban abortion except in cases of rape women will lie and say they were raped.
Do you seriously think that a woman who wants to destroy her fetus would have a problem with lying?

So if you want to deny a woman an abortion how are you going to prove she wasn't raped?

Interesting statistics as well as how important the "rape kits" are for prosecution. Something you said wasn't important. Does this mean the rest of your comments are wrong as well. Pretty much. If you look on this site, you will see that pretty much the same statistics are also for robberies. Not many are prosecuted and convicted. But, that doesn't mean we should not arrest and try to convict robbers. Same with killers such as women who commit abortion for convenience. That's a lame excuse to allow murder. Let women claim rape with their sexual partners like their fiancees, boy friends and so on. Maybe it will teach those unmarried boys and men to keep their penises in their pants until marriage. And, if the woman is married, for her husband to think about divorcing her before being subject to a false rape claim. No, most women won't claim rape for the reason of abortion because they will put their sexual partner in legal peril. So, your argument is mute. Move on...
 
Women have claimed rape and later found that they were lying. And, when they are found to be lying, then they have more legal issues. So, don't lie. Go to another state and have the abortion. Your mind is cluttered with Rape. Why?
I live in the real world. It would be almost impossible to enforce which is why no country does it that way.


A rape claim is very hard to deny
 
Feel free to provide a rebuttal to one or more items on that list.
Everything in the right hand column. Everything that tries to link having children as punishment for sex.
 
Everything in the right hand column. Everything that tries to link having children as punishment for sex.
Everything in that column is correct
 
Everything in the right hand column. Everything that tries to link having children as punishment for sex.
That's it? Just "nuh UH!"

Pick one, tell us the logic that you think renders it inaccurate. Explain why anything in particular is wrong. Just saying "no" isn't a debate.

Note: it didn't say "punishment," it said "consequences." Not the same thing.
 
That's it? Just "nuh UH!"

Pick one, tell us the logic that you think renders it inaccurate. Explain why anything in particular is wrong. Just saying "no" isn't a debate.

Note: it didn't say "punishment," it said "consequences." Not the same thing.
First one on the right.

None have suggested that women can't use birth control. Thus abortion or no abortion women can still protect themselves from the consequences of sex.
 
First one on the right.

None have suggested that women can't use birth control. Thus abortion or no abortion women can still protect themselves from the consequences of sex.

Conservatives have been against birth control in many, many scenarios. Conservatives have opposed teaching young people to use birth control, they've opposed giving birth control to teenagers, they've opposed letting teenagers get birth control on their own without parental consent, they've opposed birth control being covered in health insurance plans, and they've falsely argued that birth control causes abortion.

Conservatives have even had laws in this country banning birth control.

So yes, conservatives have opposed the use of birth control. Abstinence-only sex education is opposing birth control. This does not reduce abortions, this actually increases abortions because it increases unwanted pregnancy.
 
Conservatives have been against birth control in many, many scenarios. Conservatives have opposed teaching young people to use birth control, they've opposed giving birth control to teenagers, they've opposed letting teenagers get birth control on their own without parental consent, they've opposed birth control being covered in health insurance plans, and they've falsely argued that birth control causes abortion.

Conservatives have even had laws in this country banning birth control.
Prove that is the majority position of abortion opponents.

You can't of course.
 
Prove that is the majority position of abortion opponents.

You can't of course.

You don't get to set my goalposts for me, sorry. Conservatives have done all of these things. Pro-life groups have done all of these things. These things are inconsistent with the idea that abortion is murder and they are consistent with the idea women should suffer consequences for having sex.

If you don't hold these opinions in particular, congratulations. I'm glad you are against abstinence-only sex education. I'm glad you support getting teenagers access to birth control without their parents being involved. But don't pretend these opinions don't exist. You know better. You know abstinence-only sex education exists.
 
Back
Top Bottom