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No, the criminals took over because of aggressive policing.
You're talking POST incident, I'm saying curtailing the aggressiveness PRE incident will remove possible excuses for these criminals to take over in the first place.
Fundamentally, however, the reasons why those criminals and thugs exist in such large numbers needs to be addressed.
But cops killing more people, that will only cause it to get worse. And once it's started, you're screwed because now you have to respond with more aggressive policing and the cycle of hate and aggression and violence takes over.
We cannot allow that cycle to establish and that means, in part, curtailing police activities prior so that you don't get Baltimore's or Ferguson's in the first place.
This sort of powder keg explosions need to stop.
You also then have to address the socio-economical problems that plague our inner cities and crime ridden areas in order to try to produce more positive community interactions and decrease criminal activity.
None of which is a "wave the wand" sort of system where we can magically cure it. It will take time and effort, but if we do it right we will end up all the better for it.
Has anyone heard why the incident is still under investigation and has anyone been charged with wrongdoing? They released the names of the officers but refuse to release their pictures. Is that common practice? Three of the officers have been identified as white from a video. I read that Baltimore is one city that practices black on black policing. This arrest occurred in a black community across the street from a government housing project in front of boarded up row houses and is known for high criminal activity.
*Sigh* ok let's unpack this a little bit...No, the criminals took over because of opportunity, enabled by the 'dumb as a box of rocks' Mayor that had the ability before this day to heed the intel, and beef up police presence, and make arrests to let the criminals know that this would not be tolerated, PERIOD! She failed, and just cost Balto millions!
No again, I asked you to breech this river of pseudo intellectual pablum, to highlight just how dangerous it is to placate the criminals, and anarchists that were driving the opportunist outbreak last night. Look, it was dangerous for anyone that wasn't a black resident to enter these areas BEFORE the riot last night, largely because the police were undermanned and over taxed....So, please don't try and give me the 'kinder, gentler' approach....Balto has a gang problem, and a drug problem...To lessen the police footprint is to give up.
What does that even mean? Because what I read in that sentence is do nothing while we all get together and talk, talk, talk....Meanwhile the city is destroyed....
More dead cops won't help either, but I know, that's not as important as protecting the poor misunderstood thug....Maybe some chocolate chip cookies will help....
Less policing = More crime. That's a fact.
Wow, you touched all the catch phrase nothing speak right there....You should have just said pay reparations.
Ok, so, weeding through the babble, this is what I hear from you....
Weaken police authority
Hope that the criminal element won't take advantage
More give away's
Leave more innocent citizens vulnerable to crime.
In short...Make our urban cities less safe....All because you don't like the 'oh so scary' military look of riot police....
Where am I wrong?
That's right so the thugs had to move before a couple of cops are arrested for mistreating the guy or god forbid they learn that the guy fell and hit his neck on his bunk in jail.Investigations take time. Certainly more than a week to conclude...The officers involved are on administrative suspension, and the local internal affairs, State investigative agency, and the DoJ are all investigating....Part of the problem I see with these instances today, are that the crowd, or public if you will seem not to want due process to take place, but rather someone punished immediately.
Chilling.
There we go - she apparently subscribes to the same 'go anywhere, do anything' method of parenting that I do.
Does anyone believe there would be riots in Baltimore if the Police had inititiated a "HOMICIDE" investigation of Freddie Gray's death. Broken necks are not accidental deaths and are not died in custody. Damage inflicted upon Freddie Gray by Baltimore Police killed Gray. That would be homicide at some level. I believe the starting point to any solution begin with a public homicide investigation.
Oh no, this thug beats up cops and they retaliate? How awful, I thought we could do anything we want to in America and then scream "police brutality" when held accountable.I can't speak for Baltimore, but I used to work out with quite a few cops, who let me into their inner circle, since I was trying to get on the local police force. They told me about a Navy boxer they arrested, who best the living crap out of 5 cops before they could subdue him. They talked of "accidentally" dropping him out of the paddy wagon, accidentally slamming a door in his face, and accidentally tripping him so he would fall down the stairs at the local precinct. That was in the late 60's. That stuff still happens today.
Oh no, this thug beats up cops and they retaliate? How awful, I thought we could do anything we want to in America and then scream "police brutality" when held accountable.
I can't speak for Baltimore, but I used to work out with quite a few cops, who let me into their inner circle, since I was trying to get on the local police force. They told me about a Navy boxer they arrested, who best the living crap out of 5 cops before they could subdue him. They talked of "accidentally" dropping him out of the paddy wagon, accidentally slamming a door in his face, and accidentally tripping him so he would fall down the stairs at the local precinct. That was in the late 60's. That stuff still happens today.
He had it comming if you ask me.
He's also very lucky he lived through that ordeal. You " Box " a Cop today and you'll get a bullet for your trooubles and rightly so.
Sure there's bad Cops, but that doesn't justify what those animals did to their own city.
There are law abiding hard working people living in Baltimore who are now unemployed thanks to those idiots. People who put time and money into building something just so a bunch of low lifes could destroy it.
" Black Lives " only matter when they're taken by White Police Officers. The ongoing murders and Gun violence and out of control Black on Black violence in places like Chicago ?
Where are the protesters ?
This was such an integral part of the 'difficult arrest experience' during the '60's & '70's in my big-city local precinct, that it euphemistically had the name, 'tripped down the stairs', and was part of the common neighborhood vernacular. (a very insular 'cops & fireman' neighborhood, with a strong foundation of criminality & political malfeasance)and accidentally tripping him so he would fall down the stairs at the local precinct. That was in the late 60's. That stuff still happens today.
Just compare these protests with the recent events in Ukraine.
As the fires were burning on the street and when folks were throwing gas bombs at the police, and attacking opposing groups, John McCain and Victoria Nuland turned up with sandwiches for the protesters. The media did not call the protesters "Outsiders" and "Sh?t Disturbers ..... they were to be admired for demanding change and taking their country back from government cronies.
Calm
And what started it all?
And yet what was the spark? What gave the opportunity for these criminals to lash out? It wasn't decades of "low police involvement", there's that in many places that still haven't broken out in riot. What event spawned this latest explosion? Was it kinder, gentler police action? Or was it the police killing another person?
It means there are fundamental reasons why certain sectors of the city have deteriorated and if you really want to solve the problem, you'll need to address that and fix that.
More dead cops won't help, nor did I say it will. But more dead citizens at the hands of cops won't help either.
Who said anything about no policing? It's the level of force that needs to be brought under control.
If I meant reparations, I would have said it. I said socio-economic problems because those are some of the root causes of this problem. Stagnation contributes significantly to the problems and violence we see.
Pretty much as soon as you tried to summarize my points and instead turned it into political tripe. The levels of force the government uses against its citizens needs to be brought into reasonable levels. Cops and communities need to be brought back into proper contact with each other to develop the relationships necessary for functional operation. Policing still needs to occur, laws still need to be upheld, but we can't allow the continuation of suspicious deaths at the hands of the police to continue as those just exacerbate the situation and give these criminals exactly what they want, an excuse. Furthermore, the underlying stagnation needs to be addressed, the causes for it discovered and remedied, to pull people back into community mindsets and allow individuals the opportunity to advance and escape the cycles they are currently trapped in.
Far cry from that intellectually dishonest "summary" you gave, huh?
With all the recent episodes of cops killing blacks have any of the so-called "victims" been clean of having a police record, been clean on being stoned at the time, been clean of possessing a weapon like this punk in Baltimore being 24 yrs. old and carrying a switchblade? Every last one of them are criminals. The 55 year old that owed $25,000 in back child support, Trevor Martin stoned and out at way past midnight (nice job parents or mother only as daddy left years ago.) The big boy that suffocated had a record a mile long. In EVERY case they were running or resisting. NOT GUILTY on every charge put forth against the people enforcing the law. They are the lawless now they are the lifeless, as it should be.
Ok Ikari...I understand what you are saying, and the death of this young man in Balto, still under investigation, will have a conclusion. But, what you are talking about are the very same do nothing catch phrasing that allows the cycle as you put it to continue as well...Do you know what these kids learned last night? They learned that Balto has NO leadership, and if the opportunity arises, they can go out and burn, loot, and assault with NO consequence..The underlying "socio-economic" meme's that you bring up have been beaten to death. It boils down to people wanting to get themselves out of their poverty, not waiting, or demanding that everyone else do it for them....Was Freddy Grey mistreated? In the aspect of not getting immediate medical attention, hell yes. As for the other claims, I am not sure yet, but it doesn't look good for the Department....
But I will just say that looking for ways to make excuses for these kids last night rather than calling those who should be accountable for NOT maintaining peace, ie; the Mayor, who completely f'd up when she made the statement about giving them space to destroy, then this will continue.....She gave the green light, basically telling the troublemakers that nothing will happen if they cut loose....It was irresponsible, and stupid....
Baltimore has about 3200 police officers, not nearly enough for a city of that size, and "socio-economic" make up...All I can say is in watching that crap last night, I am so glad I moved to SC 8 years ago, and don't have to be around that BS kind of leadership.
Is there some reason you think the Baltimore Police Department receives comparable intel to the president of the United states?
I'm not condoning anything. They have had plenty of time to determine who did what in a matter of a couple hours. They refuse to release the pictures of all the cops involved while the angry black mob is attacking white people. 43% of the police force is African-American according to Wiki....
"During Martin O'Malley's administration as mayor, the department had become 43% African American.[25] While progress has been made to improve the department's relationship with Baltimore's now majority African American community, improvements are still being made to the department which for several years has been subject to criticism for its treatment of African American citizens. Police community relations have remained strained with the war on drugs that has plagued several African American neighborhoods in East and West Baltimore and coincidentally enough, many of the most despised officers in several of Baltimore's African American neighborhoods are also African American.[26]"
Baltimore Police Department - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Baltimore Police: Gangs Enter Partnership to ‘Take-Out’ Officers
Baltimore Police: Gangs Enter Partnership to ‘Take-Out’ Officers « CBS DC
WASHINGTON — The Baltimore Police Department says they have received a credible threat that numerous gangs have entered into a partnership to “take-out” law enforcement officers.
I know. And I bet some of those thugs even speed and illegally download copyrighted songs and movies off the internet.
And that guy in the Wal-mart that the police put down for holding a pellet gun he picked up off of one of the shelves? He brought that **** on himself. He should know that his kind have no business getting anywhere near a gun, even toy ones. If black people wanted to be able to walk around openly with rifles without being killed on sight they should have had the good sense to be born white.
Amirite?
Ah, but the question here is not one of the deceased's (admittedly extensive) criminal record, but of possible police wrong-doing.Actually, Mr. Gray was an altar boy like Treyvon and Michael Brown;
Freddie Gray's Arrest Record:
3/20/2015 Possession of a Controlled Dangerous Substance
<snip>
Which appears very reasonable on the surface, but there are concerns as to the accuracy of the results.I do not defend or indict the officers. The case is still pending.
Thank you too for a thoughtful post. But here when you say "people are angry," you need to distinguish between those who have gathered to protest for the purpose of demanding answers--overdue--about Freddie Gray and those who are destroying their own neighborhoods and trying to seize opportunities. They don't give a damn about Freddie Gray, and they're a distraction.
It's not just Baltimore that needs answers--concerned citizens across the nation are troubled too and want to know how this young man came to die. This should be about Freddie Gray. There is no excuse for the rioting and looting, and I don't think that the people perpetrating these crimes are coming to any conclusions because they aren't thinking at all.
I hope the presence of the National Guard will settle the situation down so that the good, decent people of Baltimore can rest easy in their own homes and not fear for their businesses.
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