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Austerity measures in the EU

Infinite Chaos

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-- from our EU members?
The UK isn't part of the Eurozone (we kept Sterling) but many of our economic actions shadow what the Eurozone does. I'm also not an economist however the general feeling I have here from people in the UK falls into two categories.

  • we need to pay back the debt now
  • we are cutting back too strictly

I'm firmly in the 1st camp and it's why I voted with the Conservatives at this year's election. Certain areas should be cushioned and one is our National Health Service. We can certainly be more efficient and do more with the money that is spent. I personally want to see our defence budget maintained too.
I strongly feel that many Govt bodies should be cut - most of the quangoes could go overnight and save a lot of money but some actually work and these are facing cuts.

I also feel the banks that the taxpayer propped up should be forced to make loans available for small business and industry - it's positively criminal for banks to be cutting loans to industry back or charging higher fees when our bank rate is 0.5%

We probably will have marches and protests against the measures but I won't support them. My own job in the public sector may go but I have plans anyway to go into business (why I'm angry about the industry loans situation) but I do think we'll come out of austerity leaner and stronger.

I also know my views won't be shared by many other Brits here on the forum or in the real world - however most of the ratings agencies and the IMF have given us a clean bill of health.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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If Cameron wants to make savings he can cut our pocket money to this dead-handed, overbearing and malevolent organisation we call our new supreme tier of government.

I've come across almost Soviet-style propaganda on my travels, boasting of a 'safety in numbers' in the the Eurozone. But given the rule-by-committee and one-size-fits-all nature of the Euro exchange rate, we're a little better off not being quite as shackled to the EU as the others.




The membership fee alone is humungous and set to rise all the time. Fraud is epidemic in the body of the EU itself as there is as little accountability to each nation's electorate as possible. They only have each other to answer to, which probably answers the question of why we can't leave, even if we ask nicely and risk punishment.


European Union Membership - Annual Cost £65 billion. EU is wasteful and corrupt

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Place in EU 'to cost UK 60% more'



http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/60658-52-reasons-leave-eu.html



EPIDEMIC EU FRAUD AND DEBT NO BARRIER TO EUROCRAT WAGE CLAIMS:




ROBBERY AT 'KNIFEPOINT' BY THOSE SUPPOSED TO 'HELP' US: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/63784-corrupt-eurocrats-sue-their-own-nations-cash.html


LET REASON PREVAIL: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1301840/Nations-turn-Eurosceptic-pressed-hard-cash.html


Demented! Absolutely graceless and high-handedly demented: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...iates-member-states-last-scraps-autonomy.html


EU POWER-EATERS ALSO TO DEVOUR YOUR CASH:



Playground taunts for criticising EU policy: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...high-standard-because-its-discriminatory.html


Lunatic asylum: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...-eu-battle.html?highlight=52+reasons+leave+eu



A bit of truth on our dictatorial masters: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...atorship-and-eu-democracy.html#post1058711665

Interesting that it's questioned that the concepts of Democracy and the EU could even go together!



Megalomaniacal Eurofuhrers: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/77985-mr-cameron-do-we-really-want-turkey-eu.html
 
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PeteEU

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FACTBOX-Austerity measures around the euro zone | Reuters

I wonder how that is going to play out? And what Americans will do if the same kind of measures are enacted in the USA?
Any informed input from our EU members?
It is 50% media hype spurred on by speculators and right wing politicians who see a political opportunity, and 50% reality. And it is very different depending on the country we are talking about. Dont take the EU in one broad brush on this as the situations are very different in Greece/Ireland vs Denmark/Germany and so on.

European countries have always had high debt vs GDP, it is nothing new. But because of the speculator run on Greece, Spain and Portugal earlier this year and last year, the European government's are scared that it can happen to them, so they "finally" are doing something about the debt situation. This requires balanced budgets as a minimum, which requires income increases or cutting costs. That most countries have right wing governments now days and have had for some time (long before the crisis hit), then they are seeing the opportunity push through partisan political ideas they have been unable to push through because they are highly unpopular policies... now they have the excuse of "omfgs the world is ending if we dont do something" and they are exploiting it to the fullest. Some of the policies I am for, others I am not. For one a drastic cutting before an economic recovery is secure is stupid, and that is what the UK is doing among others. On the flip side, some countries are finally going away from the principle that regardless of your wealth then you are entitled to things like child credits, pensions and so on. Its been a pet peeve for decades that in Denmark for example, a minimum wage family receives a monthly child allowance per child (to its 18th birthday) and as does the richest Danes.. The idea was to help the poor, not the rich. That seems to be changing now, thankfully. I am also for more liberalization in the EU, so business can thrive even more and the consumer will get more choice. Ironically, the present crop of right wing governments might actually put a stopper to this as they cling to protect their business contacts from the wrath of the electorate that blame them for the crisis. But saying that, I am for accountability for those that lead us into this mess, both here in Europe but also in the US.

But dont think for a second that Europe will get rid of its wealth fare state system or UHC.. any politician even remotely suggesting this would be booted out of office faster than Fat Albert eating a pizza. They might tweak it and optimize the systems, but getting rid of them.. never.

But in the end it all depends on which countries we are talking about. Greece is the ****ter as we all know, a self inflicted wound. Ireland is close behind and still is bailing out its banks. But so far the speculators have not targeted Ireland in the same way it did Spain, Greece and Portugal (and still do). At the moment the Irish economy is so bad that they wish they had the economy of Greece almost heh... but no media coverage of that /shrug.

France, Germany, the Scandinavian countries and a few others are doing great with falling unemployment, growth and so on. But that is of course not stopping the austerity wave hitting Europe.

Spain is in a transition period, but the austerity measures are working and should have cut the deficit to 6% by the end of this year.... Ironically enough Spain still has one of the lowest debt vs GDP in Europe and ironically despite the austerity measures last I looked the economy was growing.. very little, but growing. Unemployment is a problem, but it always has been in Spain... even during the good years it was 10%

The UK is going for the double dip thing it seems if the conservative liberal government continues with its plans, but then again with the new polls out they might think again. Newest polls put Labour ahead for the first time in 3 years. Plus the present government is having serious issues internally so one has to wonder how long it will last in its present form.

Italy.. well, it has always been a basket case and Berloscoloony is using this crisis just as Mussolini did with the great depression.. targeting undesirables... hopefully the moron dies of a botox overdoes soon.

Beligum is in as usual political turmoil and it is hurting the country economically.

Holland is going okay as far as I know.. but has a high debt vs GDP ratio.

The Eastern European members are at a so low point in the first place that it was not far to fall, but they are showing signs of recovery as well. Here it is the flat tax countries that are in the biggest problems.

But in the end, over the next 3 years, as I stated France and Germany will have general elections, as well as Denmark, maybe the UK, and many other countries, and chances are very good that the left will take one if not all those elections... we shall see.

As for the US.. I dont think American's have the stomach or the political will to try what the Europeans are doing... When was the last time the US government actually cut spending on anything? Plus the US debt problem is much worse than any country in Europe even Greece.
 
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William Rea

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In a nutshell...

The Lib Dems have committed political suicide by pairing up with the Cons and could end up spending the next 20 years trying to explain away the fact that they entered into a government that considered/enacted massive dogma led spending cuts (the comprehensive spending review is not over and I suspect the Cons will announce less cutting than they really wanted to as a political expediency). I don't trust the Cons to cut spending for pragmatic reasons, the spending issue is a matter of dogma for them.

The last few months have shown that in the Capitalists context of our current system here in the UK, New labour actually had it pegged about right (you know how much it hurt to say that). The Cons have hardly had the time to make any real impact on the economy so what we are seeing now must be the outcome of the previous incumbents.

Austerity = Dogmatically hitting the poorest with the bill for irresponsible financial regulators (Irresponsible because the defence is that they weren't up to speed with modern banking practices but ignorance is not a defence)
 

Alvin T. Grey

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FACTBOX-Austerity measures around the euro zone | Reuters

I wonder how that is going to play out? And what Americans will do if the same kind of measures are enacted in the USA?
Any informed input from our EU members?
Well from Ireland's perspective, we know we are in the s**tter. In a big way. And it was our fault. We expect that we will have to do some drastic cutbacks in the next two or three years. Hopefully the market will correct to reduce prices to a reachable level. However as has been reflectd by my fellow Europeans (even the "conservative" ones) a large obvious cutback to health is an instant death sentence for a political party. And the way things are here, it could be an actual death sentence.
Two things that we need to see here to aid Irelands recovery is firstly; Clarity. Our government seem to be running around reacting to stuff rather than looking like they have some kind of coherrant plan.
Secondly we need to ensure that the banks actually start investing again. They are currently numbed into shock bordering on catatonia.
I would add to that we need accountability. Heads have to roll. And publicly so. Or else there is no deterrant to mucking up the system again in the future.
 

Infinite Chaos

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-- At the moment the Irish economy is so bad that they wish they had the economy of Greece almost heh... but no media coverage of that /shrug.

--snip--

Ironically enough Spain still has one of the lowest debt vs GDP in Europe and ironically despite the austerity measures last I looked the economy was growing.. very little, but growing. Unemployment is a problem, but it always has been in Spain... even during the good years it was 10%

The UK is going for the double dip thing it seems if the conservative liberal government continues with its plans, but then again with the new polls out they might think again. Newest polls put Labour ahead for the first time in 3 years. Plus the present government is having serious issues internally so one has to wonder how long it will last in its present form --
There have been some major reviews on the Irish economy over the last few months, another one broadcast this week when Robert Peston did a major feature on the news. Here's some of the essentials in his BBC Blog

There's been similar reviews in Spain and yes the financial figures actually looked good - but on the other hand, the dependence on construction and Northern Europeans buying holiday or retirement homes and the long term forecasts are not promising for the Spanish Economy. Most of the analysts seem to think Spain will be OK but certainly there's upheaval on some of the streets and this morning Spain lost its AAA creditworthiness..

I don't sit wishing ill on Spain or Ireland, I have friends there who face tough futures. As I stated above, we may face problems over the repayments but we certainly are going to recover and be stronger from the measures. Some economies (Greece etc) have more uncertainty - ironic that if Turkey enters the EU we may find Greek workers trying to enter Turkey to work as the Turkish economy has been doing reasonably well the last few years.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Well, it looks as if the ECU will soon be as worthless as the propaganda chocolate sold to schoolchildren!

Eurotwats.jpg

And what were those nauseating boasts I heard of at the Euro's extravagent launch party? You know, the ones about the Eurozone being on a course to the kind of self-protecting prosperity we could only envy?!



Yeah yeah, pretend the EU's about peace as well while you're at it, Mr. Banker, never mind that the Euro's only one tool of control: http://www.imf.org/external/np/sec/nb/2001/nb01134.htm

Peace and freedom, yeah, right: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...ten-us-uk-extradition-law.html#post1058971812

________________________


(And the chocolate isn't selling either, some proof being that the Christmas chocolate photo was taken today of shop stock there all these months! Not to kids as it's rather expensive, nor to the adults doubtless unimpressed by the brainwashing tool it is!

But still, at least it reminds me that if the EU's budget for that kind of mind-melting is scrapped, then a few more Euros could be saved to rescue those poor poor Greeks or Spaniards!)



The Eurotwunts have now totally lost it!! - The European Superhero: Captain Euro!

..Not that normal kiddies' toys should be left alone of course, right Ms. Bonino: BBC News | Health | Rubber ducks in toxic lather


Yep, the same Bonino who, in 1996, called for toys be be created to brainwash kids about the then-still non-existent single currency: EU brainwashing at work



2 Billion a year for such junk: eu propaganda budget - Google Search - Imagine how many French babies at risk from the Euro's collapse could be kept going on that! ;)
 
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PeteEU

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There have been some major reviews on the Irish economy over the last few months, another one broadcast this week when Robert Peston did a major feature on the news. Here's some of the essentials in his BBC Blog
Yes, and yet the Irish economy is tanking big time. Almost 1/3 of its yearly GDP is needed to bail out its banks or something like that. The problem with the Irish economy is that built up its growth over the last 10 years via rising house prices and domestic house buying. People did like the US, lived off the fact that the housing prices would go up and they could get new loans. And now the housing prices have crashed, their major banks are tanking big time, and people have no money. The Irish economy I believe has shrunk the most in the industrialized world and is STILL shrinking.

There's been similar reviews in Spain and yes the financial figures actually looked good - but on the other hand, the dependence on construction and Northern Europeans buying holiday or retirement homes and the long term forecasts are not promising for the Spanish Economy. Most of the analysts seem to think Spain will be OK but certainly there's upheaval on some of the streets and this morning Spain lost its AAA creditworthiness..
Was not only expected since the two other anglo-american credit agencies already did that months ago, but ironically the market expected a 2 notch downgrade but it was only one... which ironically made the Spanish 10 year bund rate go down even more. Then again, these are the credit agencies that said Lehman Brothers was an AAA rated company and the crap they were peddling to everyone was top notch, so not sure how credible they are any more.

And the Spanish economy is so much more than Northern Europeans and Brits buying holiday homes. Sure the manufacturing industry and construction industry especially are in a decline but hey what nation does not have that problem (minus Germany). Spain has the biggest clothing company on the planet, one of the biggest telecommunications companies, one of the biggest banks (and most profitable), one of the largest oil companies and so on and so on. While there is no doubt that the Spanish economy needs to remodulate so to say, as it was so very much dependent on the building sector. However so was Ireland.. even more so, as that was for domestic consumption, and in part the UK as well.

I don't sit wishing ill on Spain or Ireland, I have friends there who face tough futures. As I stated above, we may face problems over the repayments but we certainly are going to recover and be stronger from the measures.
Yes it is good to be positive, and I have no doubt the UK can do it, as well as Ireland and Spain. However as it stands now the real threat in my view is speculators who want to exploit the problem for profit... I have been watching the yields on the Spanish bonds for the last few months and it is ironic that the Spanish bond rates go up the week before a big Spanish bond sale, and then dump down after.

Some economies (Greece etc) have more uncertainty - ironic that if Turkey enters the EU we may find Greek workers trying to enter Turkey to work as the Turkish economy has been doing reasonably well the last few years.
Turkey wont enter the EU any time soon. There is Cyprus and there is the human rights issues and legal issues that still have to be fixed in Turkey. And Greece will recover as they always do and then piss it away again as they always do.
 

Objective Voice

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If I understand the situation in most European countries correctly, the citizens who work for the government are upset that their respective governments have cut government spending to such a degree that their government jobs are at stake. All that does is add to their unemployment numbers. Thus, placing more people on the very social programs these governments don't want people being on in the first place.

So, they've cut funding to social programs, cut funding to government employee salaries and as such added more people on social welfare while removing income from the very economy they're trying to help save! Doesn't make any sense. And if we're not careful, the same things will happen in the U.S. if the Republicans have their way.

It's a nasty cycle for sure, but the last thing a government should want to do is cut or eliminate the salaries of their federal workers and place more people either on welfare programs or decrease the demand within the consumer markets. That's exactly what will happen if the U.S. follows this same pattern.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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...the last thing a government should want to do is cut or eliminate the salaries of their federal workers and place more people either on welfare programs..
In Britain the Government 'created' countless thousands of State-paid non-jobs in order to have a quick-fix to unemployment there was a few years back. New Labour didn't seem to have any real idea about proper job creation and investment into our own people. Now the chickens have come home to roost and somebody has to decide if it's cheaper for them to be paid wages or welfare through taxes.

One problem has been such a lack of protectionism for domestic economies that coolie labour with fewer rights have been welcomed by too many employers, which hasn't helped the employment situation for people already living where they are.

________________________________

WASTERS: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/69148-20-billion-nhs-cuts-doctors-sacked-useless.html

NHS wastes £86 million a year on useless websites | THINQ.co.uk

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...environment-bills-law-says-liberal-clegg.html
 
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soguks

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i think The Eu should expel Greece from th union, cuz it was not the last deceive Greeks have done so far. They had for many years produced nothing but some lemons to export and spending the moneys of The honest people in the union recklessly.
 

PeteEU

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If I understand the situation in most European countries correctly, the citizens who work for the government are upset that their respective governments have cut government spending to such a degree that their government jobs are at stake. All that does is add to their unemployment numbers. Thus, placing more people on the very social programs these governments don't want people being on in the first place.

So, they've cut funding to social programs, cut funding to government employee salaries and as such added more people on social welfare while removing income from the very economy they're trying to help save! Doesn't make any sense. And if we're not careful, the same things will happen in the U.S. if the Republicans have their way.

It's a nasty cycle for sure, but the last thing a government should want to do is cut or eliminate the salaries of their federal workers and place more people either on welfare programs or decrease the demand within the consumer markets. That's exactly what will happen if the U.S. follows this same pattern.
Not exactly. Oddly enough the country with biggest "government" employment is the UK as far as I know and it is only here they are talking about mass lay offs. I agree it is stupid in an economy that is barely growing.

The rest of Europe the austerity measures are wage freezes, changes in pensions and other benefits, optimization of existing programs and so on.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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The rest of Europe the austerity measures are wage freezes, changes in pensions and other benefits, optimization of existing programs and so on.

There's also an 'austerity' measure in the European Parliament itself - as MEPs could now be FINED for not wanting to listen to the EU Commission President's awful, bloody boring sermons!

Barroso: "I'm a very important penpusher - Ve haf vays of making you listen!"; EU business news - EUbusiness.com


Absolutely bleeding insane! If our own masters can't stand the sound of each other then we really are doomed!



Still, the money garnered from such silly fines can be put into the rejuvination pot, eh?

EUobserver / EU parliament abandons attendance fine idea for Barroso speech

Oh. Can't even get that right!
 
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PeteEU

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There's also an 'austerity' measure in the European Parliament itself - as MEPs could now be FINED for not wanting to listen to the EU Commission President's awful, bloody boring sermons!

Barroso: "I'm a very important penpusher - Ve haf vays of making you listen!"; EU business news - EUbusiness.com


Absolutely bleeding insane! If our own masters can't stand the sound of each other then we really are doomed!



Still, the money garnered from such silly fines can be put into the rejuvination pot, eh?

EUobserver / EU parliament abandons attendance fine idea for Barroso speech

Oh. Can't even get that right!
Irrelevant drivel. What does the EU Parliament have to do with austerity measures in individual countries? NOTHING! Stop trying to derail the debate with this crap.
 

Alvin T. Grey

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In Britain the Government 'created' countless thousands of State-paid non-jobs in order to have a quick-fix to unemployment there was a few years back. New Labour didn't seem to have any real idea about proper job creation and investment into our own people. Now the chickens have come home to roost and somebody has to decide if it's cheaper for them to be paid wages or welfare through taxes.

One problem has been such a lack of protectionism for domestic economies that coolie labour with fewer rights have been welcomed by too many employers, which hasn't helped the employment situation for people already living where they are.

________________________________

WASTERS: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/69148-20-billion-nhs-cuts-doctors-sacked-useless.html

NHS wastes £86 million a year on useless websites | THINQ.co.uk

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...environment-bills-law-says-liberal-clegg.html
Please clarify.....
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Stop trying to derail the debate with this crap.
Well that's Democracy, Eurofederalist style - wanting to silence perfectly legitimate and legal dissent, in this case with foul language!

(Of course, your heroes are the true master craftsmen: European Parliament to ban Eurosceptic groups - Telegraph )


There is a relevance here. If the order of the day is to tighten up belts, then perhaps our own masters can lead by example! And on top of this, the Eurozone is merely the agent of the EU, created for purely political purposes. (That's why the EU still wants to dementedly expand, despite economic troubles in the existing Union!)

Thus, it's quite right and proper to scrutinise and criticise the body responsible - it's known as calling for accountability, something the EU naturally finds strange.



Please clarify.....
Cheap foreign labour tend to have fewer employment rights and can be paid less. Companies love 'em, though there's a great irony - competing with China, the socialist paradise of sweatshop labour, means plenty of companies really do have to treat employees like cattle as much as possible just to turn a profit.



I've taken this in before, enjoying a to-and-fro with Infinite Chaos along the way:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68170-british-jobs-foreign-workers-anti-racist-britain.html


Though it's not just consumer goods which get the British job market undercut: Influx of 10,000 foreign workers for Olympic jobs | News


The EU amplifies the problem, something even New Labour recognised, the problem getting so bad that there were those famous STRIKES over it!


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ed-over-backlash-against-foreign-workers.html

Britain shamed for its 'immoral' exploitation of foreign labour - This Britain, UK - The Independent - Even looking at it from a left wing angle, using mass coolie labour is a bad thing!

Unions threaten strike vote over cheap foreign workers | Business | guardian.co.uk





______________________________





THE REST OF THE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE PILE:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8259421.stm

Power station protest against foreign workers - Telegraph

'British jobs for British workers': Brown's big lie as wildcat strikes spread over foreign labour shipped into the UK | Mail Online

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Nuclear workers join strikes wave




And there's a big hole in the immigration-to-cure-worker-shortage logic as well: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/75849-small-cap-immigration-leftards-go-mad.html

Following on from above, even I must admit I'm a bit angry on this one: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...wn-demographic-displacement-damian-green.html


THE TORIES - COOLIE LABOUR MASTERS, even wanting to treat BRITISH SOLDIERS as such: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-stories/2010/09/19/use-heroes-as-cheap-labour-115875-22572200/
 
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Djoop

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If I understand the situation in most European countries correctly, the citizens who work for the government are upset that their respective governments have cut government spending to such a degree that their government jobs are at stake. All that does is add to their unemployment numbers. Thus, placing more people on the very social programs these governments don't want people being on in the first place.

So, they've cut funding to social programs, cut funding to government employee salaries and as such added more people on social welfare while removing income from the very economy they're trying to help save! Doesn't make any sense. And if we're not careful, the same things will happen in the U.S. if the Republicans have their way.

It's a nasty cycle for sure, but the last thing a government should want to do is cut or eliminate the salaries of their federal workers and place more people either on welfare programs or decrease the demand within the consumer markets. That's exactly what will happen if the U.S. follows this same pattern.
That´s absolutely incorrect. For starters, all government spending first has to be removed from the economy, thus decreasing demand within the consumer markets. Secondly, you can cut spending, eliminate salaries, without firing a single person. If what you say were true, the government might just as well hire everybody and communism would work.

The (sound) argument is the one that says governments shouldn´t cut spending during a recession. In that scenario it's about deficit spending though, money that's not in the economy, and shouldn't be in the market. Moreover, the overspending needs to be corrected in up cycles. If we look at the US and its deficit spending thats clearly not happening. The american government, like many european governments, will have to cut spending or default on their debts. Personally, I rather see them cut their spending as soon as the recession ends.
 

Republic_Of_Public

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The (sound) argument is the one that says governments shouldn´t cut spending during a recession.
Margaret Thatcher was of the opposite opinion. She always maintained that, as in her domestic life, spending within her means as Prime Minister during a recession was only sensible.

And we've got lots of stuff worth cutting, just that the Tories insist on cutting back on police, emptying jails and knackering the NHS even more instead.

Yeah, thanks for that, Mr. heir-to-Blair!
 

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Margaret Thatcher was of the opposite opinion. She always maintained that, as in her domestic life, spending within her means as Prime Minister during a recession was only sensible.
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Its a smart comment for someone who inherits an awful lot of debt. The question is, did Margaret spend within her means. Moreover, if the gov cuts spending during up cycles, they stay within their means as well. Politics...
 

Republic_Of_Public

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The question is, did Margaret spend within her means?

For the purposes of this, well, yes: What is Thatcherism? Did it Succeed?

It's interesting that 64 economists bitched to The Times that Monetarism would vapourise what little was left of the gutted economy which Labour smashed. But in the end it did some good and helped establish the Thatcher phenomenon, a legacy which we still just about enjoy today.


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And what have we got now then, eh?

Last month gaffe-prone Mr Blunt said he had left his wife of 20 years to "come to terms with his homosexuality".
Are they all absolutely 'round the bloody twist these days?

Tory minister Crispin Blunt: 'Use heroes as cheap labour' - mirror.co.uk
 
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Alvin T. Grey

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Well that's Democracy, Eurofederalist style - wanting to silence perfectly legitimate and legal dissent, in this case with foul language!

(Of course, your heroes are the true master craftsmen: European Parliament to ban Eurosceptic groups - Telegraph )


There is a relevance here. If the order of the day is to tighten up belts, then perhaps our own masters can lead by example! And on top of this, the Eurozone is merely the agent of the EU, created for purely political purposes. (That's why the EU still wants to dementedly expand, despite economic troubles in the existing Union!)

Thus, it's quite right and proper to scrutinise and criticise the body responsible - it's known as calling for accountability, something the EU naturally finds strange.





Cheap foreign labour tend to have fewer employment rights and can be paid less. Companies love 'em, though there's a great irony - competing with China, the socialist paradise of sweatshop labour, means plenty of companies really do have to treat employees like cattle as much as possible just to turn a profit.



I've taken this in before, enjoying a to-and-fro with Infinite Chaos along the way:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/68170-british-jobs-foreign-workers-anti-racist-britain.html


Though it's not just consumer goods which get the British job market undercut: Influx of 10,000 foreign workers for Olympic jobs | News


The EU amplifies the problem, something even New Labour recognised, the problem getting so bad that there were those famous STRIKES over it!


EU enlargement blocked over backlash against foreign workers - Telegraph

Britain shamed for its 'immoral' exploitation of foreign labour - This Britain, UK - The Independent - Even looking at it from a left wing angle, using mass coolie labour is a bad thing!

Unions threaten strike vote over cheap foreign workers | Business | guardian.co.uk





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THE REST OF THE IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE PILE:

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Unions urge EU labour law changes

Power station protest against foreign workers - Telegraph

'British jobs for British workers': Brown's big lie as wildcat strikes spread over foreign labour shipped into the UK | Mail Online

BBC NEWS | UK | UK Politics | Nuclear workers join strikes wave




And there's a big hole in the immigration-to-cure-worker-shortage logic as well: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europe/75849-small-cap-immigration-leftards-go-mad.html

Following on from above, even I must admit I'm a bit angry on this one: http://www.debatepolitics.com/europ...wn-demographic-displacement-damian-green.html


THE TORIES - COOLIE LABOUR MASTERS, even wanting to treat BRITISH SOLDIERS as such: Tory minister Crispin Blunt: 'Use heroes as cheap labour' - mirror.co.uk
Are they subject to the same statutes as UK workers or not?
 

Republic_Of_Public

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Hardly narrow-minded to tell the truth. More of that EU-beloved doublespeak I mentioned before, particularly insulting when that august band of frauds and charlatans, who are the heroes of poor Peter, inflict that kind of rubbish themselves.


Example:

The Lindsey oil dispute stemmed from the EU Posted Workers Directive, says Pam Sidhu, a senior associate at law firm Pinsent Masons. This entitles workers posted overseas on a temporary basis to receive the same basic employment rights as local staff, but does not give them access to collectively agreed terms and conditions that go beyond these. In practice, this means it is possible for employers to hire EU workers on lower rates than UK labour if locally agreed deals are higher.
International recruitment: why foreign workers are losing interest in the UK


Other times the coolie labour here are exploited by being kept ignorant of the rights they do have. That governments allow this to continue is an act of treason, what with unemployment being at a 14-year high, with excuses that British scumbags 'price themselves out of the market' (or are 'too lazy') to 'explain' it!
 
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Grant

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Hardly narrow-minded to tell the truth. More of that EU-beloved doublespeak I mentioned before, particularly insulting when that august band of frauds and charlatans, who are the heroes of poor Peter, inflict that kind of rubbish themselves.


Example:



International recruitment: why foreign workers are losing interest in the UK


Other times the coolie labour here are exploited by being kept ignorant of the rights they do have. That governments allow this to continue is an act of treason, what with unemployment being at a 14-year high, with excuses that British scumbags 'price themselves out of the market' (or are 'too lazy') to 'explain' it!
A recent article on the subject in the US media. Right or wrong?

The British Try To Climb Out of the Ditch - Mona Charen - Townhall Conservative
 
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