Attorneys for George Zimmerman,..say they can't find him, fear for his safety [W:169]

[The Mark]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I haven't read this thread, and I since I don't watch TV at all or follow other news sources that closely, I'm unsure of all the details involved here.


However, I can't understand why anyone has decided one side or the other of this whole insanity is correct, seeing as no evidence has been presented so far as I know.

TV coverage is not evidence.

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Zimmerman charged

If the GF said that Martin said "What are you following me for" then obviously Zimmerman approached him first, along with the fact that his fat ass got out of his car, disobeyed the dispatcher, and pursued Martin.

Methinks you got the order of recorded events wrong. Doesn't seem like he disobeyed the operator.

Regardless, the claim of self defence relies on proving the supposed aggressive party actually commited a crime against that person. It should not rely on happenstance that the "aggressor" died and therefore that burden of proof no longer applies. A few moments, inches or feet of distance either way and Martin would be alive to put that matter to rest by facing trial for aggravated assault. That is the legal test that racial and gun politics in this instance has subsumed.

 

[Enola]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have not been keeping up, granted. Which is why I said it needs to be judged in a court. We ALL have been influenced by what the media has put out there. Hence, this thread.

 

[Caine]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have not been keeping up, granted. Which is why I said it needs to be judged in a court. We ALL have been influenced by what the media has put out there. Hence, this thread.

Well, other than for entertainment purposes.... what "we all" think is entirely irrelevant if those charged with investigating and prosecuting crimes determine that they cannot disprove George Zimmerman's account of self-defense.

Unfortunately, the incident got politicized and now action is being taken, in my opinion, as a result of appeasing the mob.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I don't understand how using a gun against another person and causing the death of that person can be any excuse. Isn't that excessive force? And wouldn't he be found guilty of manslaughter if found it was accidental? Then again, what if it was not accidental? He got out of his car when told not to, approached the "suspect" which led to confrontation and then he used deadly force due to being "in fear of his life" in what nature? A tea bottle?

If he was in fear of his life, why did he approach the person?

This is why it needs to be done in court. So many things unknown.

All kinds of variables come into play. If any man has knocked you to the ground and is proceeding to bash your head into the concrete it would be irrelevant that he was doing it with his bare hands and so no, it wouldnt be excessive force if his life was actually in danger. It would be some degree of manslaughter if the gun 'accidentally' discharged. I think in order to get a conviction on any degree if murder they would have to prove his intent was to cause harm. I doubt they could even prove his intent was to draw a weapon on someone, let alone murder someone. I think all you are left with (unless you are looking for charges to appease the masses) is some form of negligent homicide. This seems to fit best

782.07 Manslaughter; aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult; aggravated manslaughter of a child; aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic.--
(1) The killing of a human being by the act, procurement, or culpable negligence of another, without lawful justification according to the provisions of chapter 776 and in cases in which such killing shall not be excusable homicide or murder, according to the provisions of this chapter, is manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(2) A person who causes the death of any elderly person or disabled adult by culpable negligence under s. 825.102(3) commits aggravated manslaughter of an elderly person or disabled adult, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(3) A person who causes the death of any person under the age of 18 by culpable negligence under s. 827.03(3) commits aggravated manslaughter of a child, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
(4) A person who causes the death, through culpable negligence, of an officer as defined in s. 943.10(14), a firefighter as defined in s. 112.191, an emergency medical technician as defined in s. 401.23, or a paramedic as defined in s. 401.23, while the officer, firefighter, emergency medical technician, or paramedic is performing duties that are within the course of his or her employment, commits aggravated manslaughter of an officer, a firefighter, an emergency medical technician, or a paramedic, a felony of the first degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

 

[Enola]

Re: Zimmerman charged

Another circus...like the Casey Anthony trial. This one will be no different.

 

[Enola]

Re: Zimmerman charged

All kinds of variables come into play. If any man has knocked you to the ground and is proceeding to bash your head into the concrete it would be irrelevant that he was doing it with his bare hands and so no, it wouldnt be excessive force if his life was actually in danger. It would be some degree of manslaughter if the gun 'accidentally' discharged. I think in order to get a conviction on any degree if murder they would have to prove his intent was to cause harm. I doubt they could even prove his intent was to draw a weapon on someone, let alone murder someone. I think all you are left with (unless you are looking for charges to appease the masses) is some form of negligent homicide. This seems to fit best

782.03 Excusable homicide.--Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[longview]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have to ask, if everything else stayed the same, except that George Zimmerman was black,
would this be a national news item?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Zimmerman charged

Thanks for the explanation.

I edited the initial post...when i copied and pasted I cited the wrong Florida statute. And thats all from the 'for what its worth' category. Our resident lawyers didnt know the facts...and all Im doing is speculating based on general knowledge.

 

[Caine]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have to ask, if everything else stayed the same, except that George Zimmerman was black,
would this be a national news item?

No.
.......

 

[Ben K.]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have to ask, if everything else stayed the same, except that George Zimmerman was black,
would this be a national news item?

About as pointless as asking whether if GW Bush were president would his comments on the incident be controversial. Who the f knows?

 

[longview]

Re: Zimmerman charged

782.03 Excusable homicide.--Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.
I think the fact that a gun was clearly involved would limit this one.
I was thinking of this one or the lesser charge.
782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have to ask, if everything else stayed the same, except that George Zimmerman was black,
would this be a national news item?

Oh no...Im certain it would still be national news and the race baiting clowns would have still showed up and the preside...

ok...no...of course not.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I have to ask, if everything else stayed the same, except that George Zimmerman was black,
would this be a national news item?

Personally, I doubt it. The media picked this up and ran with it . . . as did Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton and others. If race wasn't an issue, as well as Florida's SYG Laws, I doubt this would have gotten the nation-wide attention its garnered as a result of that combination.

 

[joko104]

Read more: Zimmerman to be charged by Florida special prosecutor, report says | Fox News Always Fair and Balanced News Source

The link does not match nor does it say the OP title.

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Zimmerman charged

782.03 Excusable homicide.--Homicide is excusable when committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution, and without any unlawful intent, or by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or upon a sudden combat, without any dangerous weapon being used and not done in a cruel or unusual manner.
I think the fact that a gun was clearly involved would limit this one.
I was thinking of this one or the lesser charge.
782.11 Unnecessary killing to prevent unlawful act.—Whoever shall unnecessarily kill another, either while resisting an attempt by such other person to commit any felony, or to do any other unlawful act, or after such attempt shall have failed, shall be deemed guilty of manslaughter, a felony of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

I cut and pasted the wrong statute...edited for correction. Either way...I believe his actions contributed to the death of the kid. He provided the straw, the gas, and the oxygen and the all that was left was the spark...and he created the situation for the spark.

 

[JasonI]

Re: Zimmerman charged

So I just heard, from a US Asst Atty, that most likely Zimmerman's attorney would ask the judge to make a ruling on his immunity due to the SYG law so it may never get to a trial...

 

[Kreton]

Re: Zimmerman charged

So I just heard, from a US Asst Atty, that most likely Zimmerman's attorney would ask the judge to make a ruling on his immunity due to the SYG law so it may never get to a trial...

I am pretty sure they will ask the judge to dismiss the charges, and they may ask more than once. Probably for a variety of reasons. I really dont think it will get dismissed however. The ball is rolling. I dont think a judge will stop it.

 

[Michael Johnson]

Re: Zimmerman charged

No, that isn't obvious at all. Ever play Clue? You know, Colonel Mustard in the Library with the Pipe Wrench? Get one.

Ever heard of common sense? You know, the logical left side of your brain? Rationality? Get some.

 

[joko104]

Re: Attorneys for George Zimmerman,..say they can't find him, fear for his safety [W:

If Zimmerman flees the country I will begin to seriously doubt his innocence. You dont run if you've done no wrong.

That's nonsense. Would you be willing to sit in jail for a year or two awaiting a trial for the thril of sitting in a courtroom for a month or two hoping a jury says "not guilty" - which by no means means innocent. I bet Zimmerman is treated extra well in jail awaiting trial - solitary for his protection. Go sit in your closet for 24 hours and see how you like it.

 

[MaggieD]

Re: Zimmerman charged

I cut and pasted the wrong statute...edited for correction. Either way...I believe his actions contributed to the death of the kid. He provided the straw, the gas, and the oxygen and the all that was left was the spark...and he created the situation for the spark.

You're right that he provided the straw, gas and oxygen. But. What laws did he break by providing those things? Reckless endangerment? Culpable negligence? Manslaughter? It'll be very interesting to hear the press conference in 50 minutes.

 

[Michael Johnson]

Re: Zimmerman charged

So many lies.

What lies, sir?

 

[joko104]

Re: Attorneys for George Zimmerman,..say they can't find him, fear for his safety [W:

I'm rather of the opinion (now, as a result of this incident) that any time one person kills another there should be a hearing or a trial or a Grand Jury or something. . . it shouldn't be easy to kill another human being. The defense of self-defense should always come under scrutiny, if for no other reason than the public, and especially the families, have the right to know.

Hope he gets a fair trial. It'll be interesting to see what he's charged with. In a way, I'm surprised.

I agree all homicides should go to a grand jury. The prosecutor bypassing the grand jury is chicken-xxxt.

 

[Michael Johnson]

Re: Zimmerman charged

They're black. What about them?

You're wrong, but I would love to see you present some new silliness, so by all means, present evidence concerning socks.

:coffeepap

Yup keep deflecting.

:coffeepap

 

[Kreton]

Re: Attorneys for George Zimmerman,..say they can't find him, fear for his safety [W:

That's nonsense. Would you be willing to sit in jail for a year or two awaiting a trial for the thril of sitting in a courtroom for a month or two hoping a jury says "not guilty" - which by no means means innocent. I bet Zimmerman is treated extra well in jail awaiting trial - solitary for his protection. Go sit in your closet for 24 hours and see how you like it.

Depending on the charges he will likely be let out on bail. If he hasnt left by now, and i dont think he has, i dont think a judge will consider him too much of a flight risk. I dont think he is in jail for the duration of his trial. Also I dont think this trial will take two years to get a verdict on.