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you do realize atheism is different from paganism?
Why must we respect the christian religion on a pagan holiday ?
So what if it's become traditional in the last century ..traditions stolen from an older culture I might add.
you do realize atheism is different from paganism?
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Two wrongs don't make a right.
Ikari said:pew pew pew
Take that Christmas!
Heheh.
The holiday was NOT stolen from pagans.
The first known celebrations of a feast for Christ date to Christians in Egypt around A.D. 200. The current date of December 25 has been used since the middle of the fourth century, before Christianity became widespread in Northern EUrope. The date is traditional as it is nine months after the Annunciation to the Virgin Mary, which is celebrated on March 25.
As for the actual date of Christ's birth, that is unknown and scholars are not universally opposed to the December date. The Census took place at a time when field labor was suspended, and that could only have happened in the winter.
It is the PURPOSE of the celebration that IS important.
This outta be good.
A winter festival was the most popular festival of the year in many cultures. Reasons included the fact that less agricultural work needs to be done during the winter, as well as people expecting longer days and shorter nights after the winter solstice in the Northern Hemisphere.[17] Modern Christmas customs include: gift-giving and merrymaking from Roman Saturnalia; greenery, lights, and charity from the Roman New Year; and Yule logs and various foods from Teutonic feasts.[18] Scandinavians still call Christmas Pagan Scandinavia celebrated a winter festival called Yule, held in the late December to early January period. As Northern Europe was the last part to Christianize, its pagan traditions had a major influence on Christmas.Jul. In English, the word Yule is synonymous with Christmas,[19] a usage first recorded in 900.
Quick Wiki search gave me this:
This outta be good.
So it just happened to be around the time that Pagans had been celebrating their religious holidays for thousands of years? It just happened that the RCC enrishened that date and adopted the numerous pagan rituals as part of the holiday?
If it wasn't stolen, why did it jack dozens of Pagan rituals? The accepted argument is that the RCC trying to get the hordes of Pagans after the fall of Rome to convert took the holiday along with the rituals as their own to further the conversion into Catholicism.
"It's a Christian Holiday and always was never mind that we celebrate it on the day and time that Pagans had their own for thousands of years before the Israelite and we celebrate in Pagan ways!"
You're going to have to do better then that.
Read about what the Shepards were wearing.
The Puritans banned the holiday. What does that tell you about the purpose? :2wave:
You could choose just about ANY date and it would have conflicted with SOME pre-existing holiday. Did you notice that the December 25th date is exactly NINE MONTHS after the Annunciation? Didn't think so. Ever heard of Hannakuh? Next, you are going to tell me that Easter is pagan in origin too.
WHat are we celebrating on December 25? The birth of the Son of God. The traditional date for that celebration is exactly nine months after the Annunciation to Mary. Hint - It is generally held that a woman's normal term is about nine months.
If atheists are so smart why don't they buy some time on TV
channels ? I see all kinds of Christian stuff on TV, but never
any atheist stuff, or philosophy either.
Because no one would watch a blank screen
Excellent analysis in the beginning but what a bunch of stupid conclusions at the end :2razz:This thread reads something like....
....a muscle bound guy crying because a little skinny kid kicked him in the knee after being bullied for centuries. Then the muscle bound guy cries about atheism being a religion even though there is no dogma, house of worship or clergy. Unlike every other religion out there does in one form or another. Then the muscle bound guy tries to make the little guy bad for not taking **** anymore and holding up his opinion proudly for everybody to see.
This all led to me realize that....
.....baptists and their unapologetic talking heads in this country have for the most part no trouble with blaming 9/11 and other completely unpredictable **** on gays and atheists. Catholics have no problem with religion interfering in peoples lives as far as reproductive choice goes, religion sexuality. The LDS have no problem telling gays they can't marry whomever they love just like everybody else. Muslims in this country expect people to make time out of their schedule to accommodate prayer times. These groups have absolutely NO PROBLEM sticking their beliefs into the lives of others and hammering their **** over airwaves, tv channels, internet pop-up ads. HOWEVER. Let ONE ****ing atheist group make up a mean sign and all the sudden Atheists are the bad guys.
I swear on Photoshop CS4 that next time I drive by a billboard in the middle of the road saying 'Have you found him yet?' I'm going to file a lawsuit and get filthy rich by making a fuss about how hurt I am I could have find Jesus by going on a website but was never told. Seriously I am.
Whatever. I hope whomever stole the sign gets caught and sent to jail. Ha.
Excellent analysis in the beginning but what a bunch of stupid conclusions at the end :2razz:
The spread of religion as a belief is protected by the Constitution, I have no idea why atheists are so ignorant to reject what the Constitution protects as if religion is something imposed today, maybe it was in the past...
On the other hand, some religious guys don't know where to stop and they really piss off others with their insistence to preach where they are not welcomed at all.
The same bible teaches clearly that if you are a religious dude, and you go to a town and the people of this town reject your religion, you must go somewhere else, simple as that. But, we are witness how many religious fanatics still risking their lives by visiting countries which reject their religion, and later when they are killed or tortured by their preaching they become "martyrs" by the leaders of their religious denomination.
Both sides must stop, the religious dudes who insist to preach their religious beliefs where they are not welcome, instead of doing good they are causing reactions of hate against them, and their god -if god exists- must be preparing a punishment instead of a reward to these religious fanatics.
Atheists must be smart enough to fight religion offering a better alternative, not so as acting like low class people.
Atheists against Christmas must find the way to spread the several facts which show that December 25th is not the real -an neither a valid symbolic- birth of the Christ, this can be done by TV and radio broadcast, books and similar offered for free to the people, and doing so the people will be educated instead of being a witness of silly attacks here and there. To find a key politician who supports them or creating music explaining it is also a way to hit the attraction of the people.
But, beware, the last movie having a Christ preaching that being a foggy is ok...that is too much...such mother f*ckers actors are going too far...they should be arrested by spreading tendencies (read behaviours: homosexuality is a choice) that go against the integrity of the human mind and body.
People must be informed that being an atheist is not a synonymous of beign in favor of homosexuality or any other similar crap around.
Being an atheist is simply not to believe that a god exists and that things happen by circumstances of nature.
This thread reads something like....
....a muscle bound guy crying because a little skinny kid kicked him in the knee after being bullied for centuries. Then the muscle bound guy cries about atheism being a religion even though there is no dogma, house of worship or clergy. Unlike every other religion out there does in one form or another. Then the muscle bound guy tries to make the little guy bad for not taking **** anymore and holding up his opinion proudly for everybody to see.Here's the link dogma - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary Telling people "there is no god" without a scientific law stating such just on "compelling scientific theory" is dogma under this definition. Athiesm isn't a religion per se as any honest intellectual would state, but I like many christians assert it is a belief, which is absolutely the case, belief in nothing is still belief, correct? Also, Darwinism does have an "authority" that is the theory of Darwin and the logical conclusion that the theory makes the belief so, while it isn't a pure example of religion, semantics could argue so with enough of a logical stretch.From Websters online: Main Entry: dog·ma
Pronunciation: \ˈdȯg-mə, ˈdäg-\
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural dogmas also dog·ma·ta \-mə-tə\
Etymology: Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem — more at decent
Date: 1638
1 a: something held as an established opinion ; especially : a definite authoritative tenet b: a code of such tenets <pedagogical dogma> c: a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds2: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church.
Be careful, it isn't all Baptists that do this, in fact, it is the minority of that religion, the most fanatical that make the above claims......baptists and their unapologetic talking heads in this country have for the most part no trouble with blaming 9/11 and other completely unpredictable **** on gays and atheists.Again, depends on the person and congregation, I personally don't care either way what one does with their lives as long as they don't interfere with mine.Catholics have no problem with religion interfering in peoples lives as far as reproductive choice goes, religion sexuality.Haven't talked to enough people in those faiths to really comment on this one.The LDS have no problem telling gays they can't marry whomever they love just like everybody else. Muslims in this country expect people to make time out of their schedule to accommodate prayer times.It was the spirit of the sign, which was tasteless and an obvious attack, I have no sympathy for the perpetratorsThese groups have absolutely NO PROBLEM sticking their beliefs into the lives of others and hammering their **** over airwaves, tv channels, internet pop-up ads. HOWEVER. Let ONE ****ing atheist group make up a mean sign and all the sudden Atheists are the bad guys.
Do you think the atheists went to far with the sign? Should they not be able to place a sign at all?
Why do I care what a bunch of bigoted, intolerant Puritans did?
Oh, nice. :lol:
"If they disagree with Christians, should they be allowed to spread their message?"
Leave the Mormons out of this.
I said this in another thread but it deserves to be said here, too. It is a nice change from last year in the way the atheists are approaching this topic. I'm glad the topic is being discussed more reasonably. Maybe the "war" will be over with a good end: everyone going back to wishing each other happiness and good cheer this time of year.
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