Atheist's Disrespectful Attitude towards not only Religion but the Religious

[mac]

You have to make a claim before you need to provide evidence. Nobody has made a claim. Sorry you don't comprehend that. :roll:

You claimed my position was delusional...prove it.

 

[CaptainCourtesy]

the simple fact that there is NO scientific evidence for the existence of the Biblical God, is evidence that the silly idea is based on imagination, fantasy, and baseless speculation.

Says whom? Prove your claim.

mac. Don't bother. What Thunder is doing is demonstrating the argument to ignorance logical fallacy. Just because there is no evidence, CURRENTLY, does not prove the non-existence of God. This is the trap that atheists who try to conclusively disprove the existence of God ALWAYS fall into. If you just remember this, debating them on this particular issue is rather simple.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

You have to make a claim before you need to provide evidence. Nobody has made a claim. Sorry you don't comprehend that. :roll:

Actually, two claims have been made. One by you and one by Thunder.

The fact is, we don't know for certain. That's reality. However, not knowing doesn't grant one license to just make a bunch of crap up and declare it true. That's what you've done.

religious folks and others who follow irrational & illogical belief systems, seem to think that the absense of concrete evidence allows for ideas based simply on imagination, fantasy, and baseless speculation.

So both of you need to prove that God is just "made up crap" and "imagination, fantasy and baseless speculation" rather than just an undiscovered reality or a reality that you personally have not yet experienced.

 

[Cephus]

You claimed my position was delusional...prove it.

Do you have any objective evidence to support it? Can you provide a logical framework which suggests that your position is factually true? No?

Delusion.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

Do you have any objective evidence to support it? Can you provide a logical framework which suggests that your position is factually true? No?

Delusion.

Nope, he could just know more about reality that you do. Prove that it's delusion rather than you just lacking information that he has.

 

[Thunder]

...So both of you need to prove that God is just "made up crap" and "imagination, fantasy and baseless speculation" rather than just an undiscovered reality or a reality that you personally have not yet experienced.

my evidence that the belief in the Biblical God is imagination, fantasy, and baseless speculation...is YOUR lack of any scientific evidence for the existence of the Biblical God.

you are asking me to prove the non-existence of something, and that is intellectually dishonest & lazy.

it is YOU who is making the positive claim, and it is YOU who has the burden of proof.

 

[Cephus]

mac. Don't bother. What Thunder is doing is demonstrating the argument to ignorance logical fallacy. Just because there is no evidence, CURRENTLY, does not prove the non-existence of God. This is the trap that atheists who try to conclusively disprove the existence of God ALWAYS fall into. If you just remember this, debating them on this particular issue is rather simple.

Of course, he's never said it proves the non-existence of anything, only the lack of logical reason to believe in the existence of same. Belief in something is an active state, one ought to have credible reasons for believing that some proposition is actually true. We've asked mac over and over to provide those reasons, he's refused, or simply been unable to because he has none. This is not an argument between the absolute existence of God and the absolute non-existence of God, but on whether or not claims for the existence of God are credible or not.

 

[Cephus]

Nope, he could just know more about reality that you do. Prove that it's delusion rather than you just lacking information that he has.

If so, it should be easy for him to demonstrate. When do you think either of you are going to give that a go?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

it is YOU who is making the positive claim, and it is YOU who has the burden of proof.

I've never made a claim on this board about the existence of God other than to say that it's possible.

You have made the claim that the Biblical God is fantasy. Prove it.

 

[mac]

mac. Don't bother. What Thunder is doing is demonstrating the argument to ignorance logical fallacy. Just because there is no evidence, CURRENTLY, does not prove the non-existence of God. This is the trap that atheists who try to conclusively disprove the existence of God ALWAYS fall into. If you just remember this, debating them on this particular issue is rather simple.

Agreed. They have no interest in proving their own positions...they simply claim intellectual superiority with an appeal to popularity.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

If so, it should be easy for him to demonstrate. When do you think either of you are going to give that a go?

I've never made a claim, so I don't have to give anything a go.

Nonetheless, your claim that he made stuff up should be easy to demonstrate. When do you think you'll give it a go?

 

[Cephus]

I've never made a claim on this board about the existence of God other than to say that it's possible.

You have made the claim that the Biblical God is fantasy. Prove it.

How do you know that it is possible? Are unicorns possible? Square circles? Even if it can be demonstrated that it's possible (and for some concepts of God, they are self-contradictory and therefore not possible), that doesn't make them actually true.

 

[mac]

If so, it should be easy for him to demonstrate. When do you think either of you are going to give that a go?

Neither TPD or I have claimed that God is provable while you have claimed that belief in God is delusional. PROVE IT.

 

[Thunder]

...Just because there is no evidence, CURRENTLY, does not prove the non-existence of God....

you're joking, right?

you want evidence to disprove the existence of something that has no scientific evidence backing up its existence?????

:lamo

 

[mac]

Of course, he's never said it proves the non-existence of anything, only the lack of logical reason to believe in the existence of same. Belief in something is an active state, one ought to have credible reasons for believing that some proposition is actually true. We've asked mac over and over to provide those reasons, he's refused, or simply been unable to because he has none. This is not an argument between the absolute existence of God and the absolute non-existence of God, but on whether or not claims for the existence of God are credible or not.

Where'd the Universe come from, Cephus? What can you prove? Hell, what can you rule out?

 

[Thunder]

Neither TPD or I have claimed that God is provable while you have claimed that belief in God is delusional. PROVE IT.

Delusional suggests pathology, and I won't go that far.

But I will say that its very clear that the belief in the Biblical God is irrational, illogical, and based on fantasy, imagination, and baseless speculation.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

How do you know that it is possible?

I don't know it's possible. That was easy.

So you when are you going to prove your claim that he "made stuff up". You made a claim, you always demand evidence. Why won't you provide evidence? I'm just asking from you what you ask from everyone else.

 

[mac]

you're joking, right?

you want evidence to disprove the existence of something that has no scientific evidence backing up its existence?????

:lamo

You mean like the big bang?

 

[ThePlayDrive]

But I will say that its very clear that the belief in the Biblical God is irrational, illogical, and based on fantasy, imagination, and baseless speculation.

If it's clear then you can provide evidence. It shouldn't be more than a google search away if it's so clear.

 

[Thunder]

Where'd the Universe come from, Cephus? What can you prove? Hell, what can you rule out?

there is scientific evidence for the Big Bang.

what was before that? we don't know.

but unlike irrational/illogical theists, we don't feel the need to make up a silly story to make up for hole in our understanding.

unlike silly theists, we are comfortable with simply not knowing yet.

 

[iangb]

Warning; this is a ramble without any real point, I just wrote it as I thought it, because it interested me.

Says whom? Prove your claim.

If he rewords his statement (as it is implied anyway) to the much more justifiable "No evidence exists for God that I have seen", he has his own word on the matter as evidence - and at that point it isn't even an argument from authority, as he is best qualified to know what he has seen. The response would then be to either prove that he is lying (a difficult task!) or give some evidence of your own that God does exist, and thus prove his statement irrelevant because you have given him new information.

However, the step from "There is no evidence for God that I know of" to "God is based on fantasy and speculation" is a fallacious one, because he does not necessarily posess all of the information that theists do, so he is not qualified to speak on their behalf. This is a step from his personal experience to everyone's personal experience, which isn't really justifiable. Claims of personal experience (which many theists claim) would lead him to a deadend - he would then be reduced to arguing over the validity of the personal experience, which is unlikely to ever go anywhere. Given that we would then be matching a theists claimed personal experience with his lack of personal experience, the statement would be neither proven nor disproven. You would need objective evidence to go any further, which I suspect neither side possesses (given my stance as an agnostic atheist, you could probably have seen that one coming!).

In short; claims of personal experience (or lack thereof) can validate personal beliefs, and are often tricky to disprove. However, they are abysmal at converting/persuading others, as is hinted at by the word 'personal'.

 

[Thunder]

If it's clear then you can provide evidence. It shouldn't be more than a google search away if it's so clear.

the lack of scientific evidence for the Biblical God, is evidence that the idea is based on fantasy & imagination.

 

[ThePlayDrive]

you're joking, right?

No, he's right. Once upon, there was no scientific evidence for many things, but as science advanced we found them. So prove that God is a fantasy rather than just undiscovered as atoms, elements, viruses, etc. were once.

 

[mac]

Delusional suggests pathology, and I won't go that far.

But I will say that its very clear that the belief in the Biblical God is irrational, illogical, and based on fantasy, imagination, and baseless speculation.

Ok, why is it irrational? Something created the universe...at least some phenomena...what was it? Back this up with proof.

 

[Thunder]

You mean like the big bang?

unlike the silly belief in the Biblical God, there is indeed evidence for the Big Bang.

turn on your tv. see all that static on unused channels? that is residual energy from the Big Bang.