At conception, a new life has begun

[weaver2]

That genuinely surprised me. I thought if would be much more pro-abortion around here.

Only someone that doesn't understand pro-choice would be surprised.

 

[The Baron]

The "agree" answer is a mixture of pro-choice and pro-life people.

It's a bit surprising to me that people can believe that an embryo is a human life and still have no problem killing it. I've been fascinated to read posts / threads questioning if human life is sacred or if human life has any worth (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

It's simply bizarre to me.

 

[weaver2]

It's a bit surprising to me that people can believe that an embryo is a human life and still have no problem killing it. I've been fascinated to read posts / threads questioning if human life is sacred or if human life has any worth (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

It's simply bizarre to me.

Come back as a woman when you have a developed some intelligence about pregnancy, family, responsibility and you will understand.

When you can operate only on a black and white level of understanding about the world everything seems bizarre.

 

[Josie]

Come back as a woman when you have a developed some intelligence about pregnancy, family, responsibility and you will understand.

When you can operate only on a black and white level of understanding about the world everything seems bizarre.

I am a woman who understands all of that and I’m still mostly against abortion.

 

[weaver2]

I am a woman who understands all of that and I’m still mostly against abortion.

I never claimed the world was rational.

 

[grip]

To answer when does a fetus deserve protection from the law, there must first be determined when a fetus is a human being.

Roe v. Wade 1973
Opinion of the Court written by Supreme Court Justice Blackmun

"We need not resolve the difficult question of when life begins. When those trained in the respective disciplines of medicine, philosophy, and theology are unable to arrive at any consensus, the judiciary, at this point in the development of man's knowledge, is not in a position to speculate as to the answer."[p160]

 

[Josie]

I never claimed the world was rational.

You did claim, however, that all intelligent women are for a women’s right to kill other humans.

 

[calamity]

You did claim, however, that all intelligent women are for a women’s right to kill other humans.

lol....hyperbole much?

 

[Lursa]

It's a bit surprising to me that people can believe that an embryo is a human life and still have no problem killing it. I've been fascinated to read posts / threads questioning if human life is sacred or if human life has any worth (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

It's simply bizarre to me.

Human life does have value. And it's subjective.

Many people do not value the unborn life equal to that of the born's lives. And our laws and Const. reflect that.

It's also not possible to treat (or value) the unborn and born equally under the law. (If you disagree, please explain specifically, with more than 'yes they can!')

Anyone who believes otherwise may act in accordance with their beliefs...no women are forced to have abortions OR forced to remain pregnant against their will.

That's why it's called "pro-choice."

 

[calamity]

@Josie how are you with letting LGBT people die?

California to ban state-sponsored travel to Ohio due to recent law allowing medical providers to deny care to LGBTQ Ohioans

Starting this week, California will restrict state-funded travel to Ohio as a result of the provision on Ohio’s two-year budget passed July 1 that allows medical providers in the state to deny care to LGBTQ patients.

www.cleveland.com

Is this a problem?

 

[Scrabaholic]

You did claim, however, that all intelligent women are for a women’s right to kill other humans.

Abortion does not kill human beings. Stop lying.

 

[Josie]

Abortion does not kill human beings. Stop lying.

Weaver thinks that abortion kills a human life.

 

[choiceone]

I am a woman who understands all of that and I’m still mostly against abortion.

Neither you nor the Baron is against abortion in a case of rape or, indeed, some other cases. The problem is that neither of you seems capable of understanding that a woman has a right not to have her sex organs violated in ways that you don't "imagine" serious. You don't have a right even to know someone else HAS sex organs or what is in them. If you had been violated enough, or enough intelligence to imagine from a less limited perspective, this would not be possible.

 

[The Baron]

@Josie how are you with letting LGBT people die?

California to ban state-sponsored travel to Ohio due to recent law allowing medical providers to deny care to LGBTQ Ohioans

Starting this week, California will restrict state-funded travel to Ohio as a result of the provision on Ohio’s two-year budget passed July 1 that allows medical providers in the state to deny care to LGBTQ patients.

www.cleveland.com

Is this a problem?

What in the cornbread-hell does this have to do with the topic at hand?!?!

 

[The Baron]

The problem is that neither of you seems capable of understanding that a woman has a right not to have her sex organs violated in ways that you don't "imagine" serious.

Are you talking about rape or giving birth?

 

[choiceone]

You did claim, however, that all intelligent women are for a women’s right to kill other humans.

Actually, he didn't. To be intelligent is to know that you have no right to know that anyone else HAS sex organs, except your spouse. No right to know whether someone has a live or dead embryo in her uterus or anywhere else. No right to know anything about that person's medical records, etc. Intelligence means you grasp the basics of natural privacy.

 

[choiceone]

Are you talking about rape or giving birth?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I'm saying that no one has the right to know whether the woman walking down the street, whom you do not know, is or is not pregnant, without her consent.

Her body and its contents do not belong to you. She isn't stealing your jewels or full of Y. pestis. Her body is not your business.

If someone is attacking her, you certainly have the right to help her. If you want to ask her for a date, get her consent.

If you don't get it, go away gracefully. Don't follow Trump's example and claim you won an election.

 

[The Baron]

@Josie

It's a bit surprising to me that people can believe that an embryo is a human life and still have no problem killing it. I've been fascinated to read posts / threads questioning if human life is sacred or if human life has any worth (I'm paraphrasing, of course).

It's simply bizarre to me.

It is also fascinating to me the number of--otherwise intelligent--people here that say they are "pro-choice" and not "pro-abortion" (once again, I'm paraphrasing a bit here). This has to be one of the more fundamentally stupid things I've read in any thread.

I really don't understand these people. If they have a belief they should simply own it but they appear to lack either the moral courage or the intellectual honesty (or perhaps both) to do that very thing. This nonsensical idea that your "pro-choice" but are against killing babies is simply a lie. Nothing more. Just a damn lie.

Just as confusing are those that believe that a fetus is a human life but don't believe that an abortion is the killing of a human being. The mind simply reels trying to grasp such outrageous stupidity.

 

[The Baron]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I believe you.

It was your quote I was questioning.

But--for the record--I honestly believe you have no idea.

 

[choiceone]

@Josie

It is also fascinating to me the number of--otherwise intelligent--people here that say they are "pro-choice" and not "pro-abortion" (once again, I'm paraphrasing a bit here). This has to be one of the more fundamentally stupid things I've read in any thread.

I really don't understand these people. If they have a belief they should simply own it but they appear to lack either the moral courage or the intellectual honesty (or perhaps both) to do that very thing. This nonsensical idea that your "pro-choice" but are against killing babies is simply a lie. Nothing more. Just a damn lie.

Just as confusing are those that believe that a fetus is a human life but don't believe that an abortion is the killing of a human being. The mind simply reels trying to grasp such outrageous stupidity.

Pro-life is supposed to mean supportive of life. I would suppose anyone who claimed to be pro-life would be against capital punishment, against all war, or at least only real defense of a country or an ally,
pro-help for every woman needing prenatal care, every mother needing an apartment in a cleaner building with better maintenance, decent temperature control, and adequate medical care for mother and child, etc.

That pro-birth is the meaning is beyond me.

Conversely, most pro-choice people aren't pro-abortion because they do not think every pregnancy should end in abortion. They think a pregnant woman has the right to choose whether to continue or end a pregnancy. not you, because it's not your body and you're not risking your life and future health in the enterprise..

Huge numbers of women do not think embryos or fetuses are babies. Those among them who choose to continue pregnancies believe they are mothers-to-be, not actual mothers, while they are pregnant. They get baby showers for their future baby.

They believe that the life is theirs and that they are sharing their life with the embryo or fetus in order to grow it. They know the embryo or fetus can't sustain its life and her body isn't replaceable for that. For them, that means it isn't a baby yet.

 

[Lursa]

@Josie

It is also fascinating to me the number of--otherwise intelligent--people here that say they are "pro-choice" and not "pro-abortion" (once again, I'm paraphrasing a bit here). This has to be one of the more fundamentally stupid things I've read in any thread.

The fundamental stupidity is not understanding the distinction.

If someone is pro-choice...if, as you say, it means 'pro-abortion,' then how can it also not mean 'pro-birth?'​

​

Do you not understand what the word 'choice' means? If not, you might want to refer to a dictionary when you use the words 'fundamental stupidity.'​

"Choice" means you respect women to make the decision that they need, whether you 'like' or approve of what they decide or not.​

I guess you dont respect women then, is that accurate? If not, explain how being pro-life respects women? Because it means, legally, denying women a medical procedure and so forcing them to remain pregnant against their will.

That's certainly not 'respecting' women. So...let's see you answer the tough questions here...or retreat in to silence? @Josie so she's not left out of the conversation, since you tagged her.

 

[calamity]

What in the cornbread-hell does this have to do with the topic at hand?!?!

It's not hard to figure out the pro-life hypocrisy that I am pointing out.

 

[The Baron]

"Choice" means...​

...killing your child.

 

[calamity]

...killing your child.

No one is killing a "child."

Is lying your only argument?

 

[The Baron]

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I quoted your post no. 938 where you said--and I quote once again--"that a woman has a right not to have her sex organs violated ". But you were not clear about what you meant when you said "a woman has a right not to have her sex organs violated ".

The problem is obviously that you don't know what you're talking about.

I'm saying that no one has the right to know whether the woman walking down the street, whom you do not know, is or is not pregnant, without her consent.

And?

Her body and its contents do not belong to you. She isn't stealing your jewels or full of Y. pestis. Her body is not your business.

And?

If someone is attacking her, you certainly have the right to help her.

Yet if she attempts to kill her own baby you don't believe anyone has a right to help the baby.

If you want to ask her for a date, get her consent.

If you don't get it, go away gracefully. Don't follow Trump's example and claim you won an election.

I have no idea what to do with any of this? What does dating or Trump have to do with this?