Assault Weapons: Two questions for those who would ban them.

[ElCid]

I never messed around with rifles-

on the other hand I have reloaded over 3/4 million handgun rounds in the last 30 years (I have two twin Dillon 1050s-one in 45 one in 9 mm (Get the 650 if you want a top progressive-the primer feed system on these 1050s is about the only thing Mike Dillon got wrong so I hand prime the brass) and two 550s (40 and 38) and five MECS-a hydraulic for 12 g, and three grabbers for the other three skeet gauges plus a old grabber to fix screw ups for the hydraulic

I filled up 8 8 pound cans of pistol primers over the years. I just never got into resizing, reaming, trimming and lubing rifle ammo but I do have a few big buckets of 556, 308, 3006, and MI brass (the Russian stuff is all berdan primed steel case throwaway crap) just in case

I reloaded for rifle back the 1970s.

 

[TurtleDude]

I reloaded for rifle back the 1970s.

yeah I never was into it enough. MOst of the rifle I shot was ISU air rifle or less formal small bore. and then IPSC combat style matches. I never did bench rest or match rifle where just about everyone reloaded (or bought black hills or creedmore match ammo). when I needed accurate stuff for long range combat matches out of my PSS "sniper rifle" I'd buy a couple boxes of Federal match stuff loaded with the sierra match king 168 grain bt bullet or (back when he was the armorer for the FBI) get some of the rounds that were "out of date" (Fed law enforcement agencies turn over ammo constantly for liability and reliability issues)

 

[PzKfW IVe]

I never messed around with rifles-

on the other hand I have reloaded over 3/4 million handgun rounds in the last 30 years (I have two twin Dillon 1050s-one in 45 one in 9 mm (Get the 650 if you want a top progressive-the primer feed system on these 1050s is about the only thing Mike Dillon got wrong so I hand prime the brass) and two 550s (40 and 38) and five MECS-a hydraulic for 12 g, and three grabbers for the other three skeet gauges plus a old grabber to fix screw ups for the hydraulic

I filled up 8 8 pound cans of pistol primers over the years. I just never got into resizing, reaming, trimming and lubing rifle ammo but I do have a few big buckets of 556, 308, 3006, and MI brass (the Russian stuff is all berdan primed steel case throwaway crap) just in case

If you ever need to unload any of that .308 or -06 brass, let me know.

 

[tlmorg02]

Which has more range -- .30-06 or .270? I say the former. Some of my buddies adamantly say the latter. Down here in South Texas, everybody loves the .270 and belittles the .30-06. Where I come from, the 06 is a force to be reckoned with. What up?

I am a big fan of the 270. There really, besides bullet weight is not a whole lot of difference in the rounds. I prefer the 270 because it travels faster and has a flatter trajectory than the 30-06.

 

[dontworrybehappy]

All I said was 'people don't NEED' that other stuff. . .in my little world that doesn't mean I advocate a BAN or restriction. LOL

Geesh - the moment you think someone's poo-pooing your jizz you get all super pissed.

And I don't think you need an suv truck or boat.

Two can play at this game.

 

[LuckySl7vin]

Anyone who knows ANYTHING about guns can tell you that the idea of mobs of Americans roaming the streets shooting up the neighborhood with stockpiles of assault rifles is idiotic. Anyone who supports a ban should probably first price check assault rifles... that s*** ain't cheap! I think that most of the gun laws we have today make sense by requiring an FLL to own, buy, or sell automatics, age restrictions, etc.

Slight OT, I would like to see an open carry law pass for registered users. I do believe that if everyone was packing a .45 on their hip in plain sight, a lot more people would be respectful.

 

[joko104]

For those of you who want a .223, including you anti-gunners who secretly now really want one, remember...

A .223 can NOT fire/cycle a NATO 5.56. However, a 5.56 can chamber a .223. The anti-personnel type ammo is most available in the greatest variety in 5.56 as that is the "military" round.

It's like a 38sp and 357magnum. A 357 CAN use 38 shells and most shooting 357 will use 38sp reloads at the gun range because they are cheap. But you can NOT use a .357 magnum in a 38 special (some model revolvers technically will allow it to fit.) The .357 is longer than the 38sp - allowing more powder in the cartridge and therefore a faster bullet (depending on the barrel length anyway).

I bought a used MSAR STG Bullpup - and candidately I am very impressed with design. Taking with a gun dealer, he commeted that was the only firearm of the last batch I bought that wasn't significantly worth more than I paid, maybe a $2-300 more. Then he took that back when he saw it was NOT a .223, but a 5.56 - and included 5 extra 42 round magazines plus strap, and orginal papers and box.

A .223 certainly is deadly - as all firearms are. BUT most consider a .223 a "coyote killer" and it is the 5.56 that is the mankiller. This also is why I found the raging on this forum and the media against the .223 just a showing of ignorance. It would be like raging against 22 shorts, while ignoring 22 long rifle ammo.

Just food for thought if you are in a rush to get your "AR" or other form of .223. It's worth the extra dollars in my opinion to instead get a 5.56. This allows you to shoot cheap (until recently anyway) .223s and even buy reloaded .223 for fun shooting, but have your special magazine loaded with your choice of Nato 5.56s - although I do NOT think the .223 or 5.56 is suited for home defense.,

The Bullpup design is awesome and I'd like one in a .308 - though I think control then would be a real issue in follow up shots and the longer the overall rifle is, the easier it is to quickly sight or impulse fire. Bullpups are for close quarters and tight fitting spaces - but still as accurate and as much barrel for velocity as any other carbine.

If you have the choice and can afford the modest price difference, pass on the .223 for instead a 5.56 - then you can use both cartridges.

Finally, people are so WACKED OUT TO HAVE AN AR15 - even just a bare receive so then it would be "pre-ban" if one comes, and since most don't know much about fireearms to that degree and just keep hearing how bad-ass and likely to be banned the .223 is, there is very little price spread as most don't even know the difference. They are in for an unhappy surprise when they try to run some military 5.56 thru their .223. It won't go.

 

[joko104]

more expensive than the much more common 243. one of the reasons why I stick to

5.56
308
3006
543x39
762x39
30 Carbine

is that they are all military cartridges meaning they are much cheaper to shoot. Yeah I could have shot a 243 in IPSC and gained a bit of speed over my 308 or "major power factor" over a 556 but it was 3X as much to shoot and shooting three times as much I made up in accuracy what I lost in having an "ideal" competition cartridge.

Yeah there are 30 caliber rounds that will outperform a 3006 or a 308 and 22 caliber rounds that are better than the 556 but not worth the cost in the long run TO ME

Overwhelming, the less expensive and with THE MOST choices to pick from is the 30-06. NATO .308 has all but replaced the 30-06 in desireability and 30-06 ammo (online or in bulk, not in retail stores) is not only a CHEAP heavy hitter, but you have a HUGE variety of ammo to pick from - for hunting or anti- personal or about anything.

30-06 rifles prices (used) are falling in relation to the prices of other calibers too. Unless prestige matters to you, 30-06 is the round to go for. Even Weatherbys in 30-06 tend to now be signifacntly lower in price (used) than virtually any other Weatherby caliber other than .22.

If a Remington 700 series 30-06 is good enough quality for you, you can find those used in VERY good condition for around $300ish online. And your ammo will be C H E A P.

 

[joko104]

I am a big fan of the 270. There really, besides bullet weight is not a whole lot of difference in the rounds. I prefer the 270 because it travels faster and has a flatter trajectory than the 30-06.

Unquestionably faster and flatter. The 30-06 was not designed to be a precision sniper round - but an all purpose round.

For precision, go with a Weatherby 30-378. (At $2+ per round factory ammo.) Other than the .408 and the .50 cal., that would be the premire long range sniper rifle choice - and those other two are not easily carried. All you need is $$$$$$.
And a shout shoulder. You know when you fired it. Weatherby won't even sell one without a muzzlebrake.

 

[joko104]

yeah I never was into it enough. MOst of the rifle I shot was ISU air rifle or less formal small bore. and then IPSC combat style matches. I never did bench rest or match rifle where just about everyone reloaded (or bought black hills or creedmore match ammo). when I needed accurate stuff for long range combat matches out of my PSS "sniper rifle" I'd buy a couple boxes of Federal match stuff loaded with the sierra match king 168 grain bt bullet or (back when he was the armorer for the FBI) get some of the rounds that were "out of date" (Fed law enforcement agencies turn over ammo constantly for liability and reliability issues)

I have NEVER had a mis-fire or any problem I noted with "old" ammo, and that includes back to the 1950s vintages. While I imagine they are fine, I've never felt comfortable with reloads.

Also, if a person is getting into "finer" long guns, they should at least READ what the gun manufacturer recommends. The most simple example is the Springfield M1A. It is built specifically for 147 grain bullets, though many opt for 168. For finer guns, they also will tell you within 1/100th to 1/1oth of an inch how much drop to expect at each 100 yard mark assuming perfectly dead air (YOU have to adjust for wind, heat rise or sink, high density or low pressure air etc yourself).

Weatherby publishes fall rates assuming dead air, no heat rise/fall ground temperature, a "cold" gun equalized to air temperature for each caliber for all bullet weight choices with their ammo. YOU have to calculate factors of wind, air rise/fall due to temperature variations and unusally high air density or low pressure yourself of course. Some ammo makers put fall rates on their boxes now, though they are assuming the average firearm since they can't know barrel length, twist rate etc.

 

[TurtleDude]

For those of you who want a .223, including you anti-gunners who secretly now really want one, remember...

A .223 can NOT fire/cycle a NATO 5.56. However, a 5.56 can chamber a .223. The anti-personnel type ammo is most available in the greatest variety in 5.56 as that is the "military" round.

It's like a 38sp and 357magnum. A 357 CAN use 38 shells and most shooting 357 will use 38sp reloads at the gun range because they are cheap. But you can NOT use a .357 magnum in a 38 special (some model revolvers technically will allow it to fit.) The .357 is longer than the 38sp - allowing more powder in the cartridge and therefore a faster bullet (depending on the barrel length anyway).

I bought a used MSAR STG Bullpup - and candidately I am very impressed with design. Taking with a gun dealer, he commeted that was the only firearm of the last batch I bought that wasn't significantly worth more than I paid, maybe a $2-300 more. Then he took that back when he saw it was NOT a .223, but a 5.56 - and included 5 extra 42 round magazines plus strap, and orginal papers and box.

A .223 certainly is deadly - as all firearms are. BUT most consider a .223 a "coyote killer" and it is the 5.56 that is the mankiller. This also is why I found the raging on this forum and the media against the .223 just a showing of ignorance. It would be like raging against 22 shorts, while ignoring 22 long rifle ammo.

Just food for thought if you are in a rush to get your "AR" or other form of .223. It's worth the extra dollars in my opinion to instead get a 5.56. This allows you to shoot cheap (until recently anyway) .223s and even buy reloaded .223 for fun shooting, but have your special magazine loaded with your choice of Nato 5.56s - although I do NOT think the .223 or 5.56 is suited for home defense.,

The Bullpup design is awesome and I'd like one in a .308 - though I think control then would be a real issue in follow up shots and the longer the overall rifle is, the easier it is to quickly sight or impulse fire. Bullpups are for close quarters and tight fitting spaces - but still as accurate and as much barrel for velocity as any other carbine.

If you have the choice and can afford the modest price difference, pass on the .223 for instead a 5.56 - then you can use both cartridges.

Finally, people are so WACKED OUT TO HAVE AN AR15 - even just a bare receive so then it would be "pre-ban" if one comes, and since most don't know much about fireearms to that degree and just keep hearing how bad-ass and likely to be banned the .223 is, there is very little price spread as most don't even know the difference. They are in for an unhappy surprise when they try to run some military 5.56 thru their .223. It won't go.

this is not true You can fire 223 all day long in a 556. The only problem is accuracy is not ideal due to the different "lead" in the chamber. If you fire a 556 in a 223 you might see signs of higher pressure.