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Yes, they will have to learn to live with their bigger neighbor to the north.
Just like Mexico does.
Why would we believe Putin would hold up his end?
And how much sense does it make for them to volunteer to restrict themselves, again, when it is plain that they can't count on promises of help from other nations?
Letting the Baltic states join NATO was a huge mistake.
Look at this from the Russian point of view. They agreed to the breakup of the USSR and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact. Instead of ratcheting down tensions, NATO inducted nearly all the WP countries, the Baltic states, and then started making noises about including Ukraine. In short, putting a hostile Alliance right on Russia's doorstep.
Given how many times Russia has been invaded by Napoleon, Hitler, the Kaiser, etc., you can't see how they would be genuinely concerned about that?
If you slavishly love Russia, I could see that.Letting the Baltic states join NATO was a huge mistake.
No. **** Russia. Nobody gives a shit what they think, except traitors.Look at this from the Russian point of view.
Yes. Yes, he is.Yes Putin wants the Baltics. If his demand is met and the Baltics are removed from NATO then he is unencumbered in his wars of conquest. Were you aware of this announcement?
Russia is exactly winning victories and both sides have the same losses. It's a war.Russia isn't exactly winning any victories, what with dead Russians piling up daily & losses in equipment.
That's too damn bad. They better get used to the idea that they aren't getting it.
Yeah? How'd they do in Sumy oblast today?Russia is exactly winning victories and both sides have the same losses. It's a war.
They can't take what they already claimed.Russia already has what it has and they will take more if there is not a meaningful peace agreement.
NATO / Putin timeline :
If Putin says his war is about self determination, then don't those nations have a sovereign right to protect themselves from Putin?
Yes Putin wants the Baltics. If his demand is met and the Baltics are removed from NATO then he is unencumbered in his wars of conquest. Were you aware of this announcement?
So no, the Russian point of view is destructive. . It wasn't that NATO was threatening anyone, it was about how abrasive and tyrannical Putin is. This has not been a process where Putin fears an attack from a foreign country, but instead this is European fears about Putin attacking other countries
If you slavishly love Russia, I could see that.
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014NATO / Putin timeline :
2000 Putin first elected president
2004: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia are admitted as members
2022: Invasion of Ukraine
2023: Finland is admitted
2024: Sweden
The countries we're talking about asked to apply for membership in NATO. All countries after the charter members have asked to join NATO and that means no member was coerced to join. That's important; these nations chose to apply.
2000- Putin becomes president of the Russian Federation. Finland and Sweeden applied with grave concern about Putin. And the countries we're talking about wanted in.
If Putin says his war is about self determination, then don't those nations have a sovereign right to protect themselves from Putin?
Perhaps you're aware of this:
Already not satisfied with Ukraine, Russia now says they want the Baltics
Russia's war demands have expanded beyond Ukraine, with a senior Kremlin official now insisting that NATO must withdraw completely from the Baltic States — Latvia, Lithuaniakyivinsider.com
Yes Putin wants the Baltics. If his demand is met and the Baltics are removed from NATO then he is unencumbered in his wars of conquest. Were you aware of this announcement?
So no, the Russian point of view is destructive. . It wasn't that NATO was threatening anyone, it was about how abrasive and tyrannical Putin is. This has not been a process where Putin fears an attack from a foreign country, but instead this is European fears about Putin attacking other countries
Not relevent.
Look at this from the Russian point of view (not just Putin.) They dissolved the USSR, abandoned Communism, disbanded the Warsaw Pact, and withdrew their troops from these places. Instead of admitting NATO no longer had a function, the west decided to expand it and move the front line right up to Russia's border.
No, because China would start a war, but your hypothetical is saying Ukraine would have started the war. Two totally different countries, and an absurd comparison. Who is interested in starting a war with Russia? Name the country that wants to start a war with Russia.Imagine, if you would, if China signed an agreement with the government of Mexico and put a couple of PLA Divisions right up on the Rio Grande. And now you see what Russia's problem with NATO is.
I would depend how many ethnic Russians were living in those countries and if their rights were being respected. In the case of Estonia and Latvia, Russians make up over 20% of the population.
Who said anybody would move troops to the border anywhere? That's not Putin paranoia, he's not afraid. Its Putin propaganda because he's invented a straw man that you seem to accept. That straw man justifies his ambitious conquest, but it's militarism based on lies.So why is this our problem? I say the same thing about all the twits who want us to get involved in a war between China and Taiwan, or between Israel and her Arab neighbors.
Show me what the AMERICAN interest is.
Wait, you don't see how moving hostile troops right up to Russia's borders is a threat.
Nothing has changed since WWII? Seriously. This is 2025. Again, name the country that wants to start an invasion of Russia. Name just one.How many times has Russia been invaded from the west?
Nope, I just don't seen an American Interest because Joe Biden's Autopen committed Billions of my tax dollars to a losing war.
Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014
Russia is exactly winning victories and both sides have the same losses. It's a war.
Have you considered the function of NATO? They formed NATO for guys like Hitler. They couldn't foresee Putin, but they expected someone would try again, and here he is, Putin. What makes you say NATO no longer has a function. If NATO is no longer has a function, why did Estonia Latvia Sweeden Finland Molova and the rest join NATO after Putin became president?
Why did the West decide to admit the members? Because the applying nations wanted protection from Putin.
We couldn't have admitted all those other countries unless the US and other NATO members agreed. Heck, even Turkey was able to tie up Sweden and Finland getting in until they got some concessions.Your phrase "the west decided to expand it" is a propaganda twist and I'm immune to that kind of nonsense.
Don't worry, Trump is taking care of that problem.There are more Latinos in California than whites. That does it, I now demand that California be returned to Mexico since it was stolen in an unjust war in 1846. Texas too!
Who said anybody would move troops to the border anywhere? That's not Putin paranoia, he's not afraid. Its Putin propaganda because he's invented a straw man that you seem to accept. That straw man justifies his ambitious conquest, but it's militarism based on lies.
Your sentence here would mean you heard the stupid lie about autopens and as a result you decided your tax dollars were wasted. Look where you put the word "because".
You meant that you don't want your tax dollars going to this war. Well that's the case this fiscal year.
You've got the entire situation backwards.
You're repeating the Russian propaganda that someone is going to threaten Russia, strike first, invade and conquer MFRussia.
NATO was established exactly for individuals like Hitler and Putin. After he became president, these nations voluntarily applied for membership.
This whole problem is not Putin as the victim, Putin is the one invading Ukraine followed by the Balkans. After that who knows?
I saw parts of the Senate armed services committee hearing yesterday and McConnell asked, "who is the victim and who's the aggressor?"
You could answer the same question.
Sen. Graham asked, "Do you trust Putin to stop?"
You could also answer the same question.
Your question asking why this matters to the US is really asking why do we need international allies. I would answer that we need allies to protect ourselves from delusional and tyrannical warmongers like Putin.
Letting the Baltic states join NATO was a huge mistake.
Look at this from the Russian point of view. They agreed to the breakup of the USSR and the dissolution of the Warsaw Pact. Instead of ratcheting down tensions, NATO inducted nearly all the WP countries, the Baltic states, and then started making noises about including Ukraine. In short, putting a hostile Alliance right on Russia's doorstep.
Given how many times Russia has been invaded by Napoleon, Hitler, the Kaiser, etc., you can't see how they would be genuinely concerned about that?
Yeah? How'd they do in Sumy oblast today?
Look at this from the Russian point of view
Putin isn't Hitler
and a lot of you have expressed your desire to see Putin overthrown. That strikes me as a threat, frankly.
All of the above.Yes he is. The worst piece of shit to inflict such death and destruction on Europe since Adolf blew his brains out.
Murderous dictators who are a threat to the peace of the world need to be gotten rid of before they can do untold damage & death.
"Never Again" isn't just a catchy slogan.
That's unfortunate.Putin isn't Hitler, and a lot of you have expressed your desire to see Putin overthrown. That strikes me as a threat, frankly.
And let's be fair, Trump's been backing Russia because he believes it is winning and he he has a pathological need to be seen as a winner. So if the tide turns, he can switch sides and do well by doing good.
They joined because they recognized Putin is just like Hitler.Why did they join? Same reason all the other European Parasites are still keeping NATO alive. America does all the heavy lifting, they kick back in their easy chairs.
What your point? Am I supposed to object to international negotiations? What are you talking about here?We couldn't have admitted all those other countries unless the US and other NATO members agreed. Heck, even Turkey was able to tie up Sweden and Finland getting in until they got some concessions.
How do you mean that, in what way is Trump taking care of, - whatever it is you mean.Don't worry, Trump is taking care of that problem.
That is not a threat to Putin. What are you trying to say?Really? Four US Servicemen just died in Lithuania because they took their military truck and drove it into a lake in error.
FineNo, I decided that they were wasted because 400 Billion has been sent there (more than twice Ukraine's GDP) and we have very little to show for it.
Putin is as similar to Hitler as it gets. Putin and Hitler have the same characteristics that compelled NATO to establish a security agreement.Putin isn't Hitler, and a lot of you have expressed your desire to see Putin overthrown. That strikes me as a threat, frankly.
It's less about do I think Putin will stop and more "can Putin really do that much more?"
why should I be mad, other than Biden has squandered 400 billion on a losing war.That's unfortunate.
Have you tried getting really mad about it?
Hegseth avoided the question too
That's an answer to someone else's question, so let me clarify:
If Putin wins in Ukraine, will he invade another country?
Who's the victim and who's the agressor?
Putin is as similar to Hitler as it gets. Putin and Hitler have the same characteristics that compelled NATO to establish a security agreement.
Holy cow, it seems like a threat for you and him but he's the one who is threatening Europe. It wouldn't be threat if he hadn't already shown them who he is. They had grandparents who remember Hitler and Stalin. They have grown up understanding despot totalitarianism, and the have right to choose to be protected in NATO.
What your point? Am I supposed to object to international negotiations? What are you talking about here?
Heh, heh, heh... you know.How do you mean that, in what way is Trump taking care of, - whatever it is you mean.
Until after Putzin invaded Ukraine, NATO never threatened Russia with any kind of military force post-Cold War.
And NATO didn't "induct" anyone. The individual countries sought membership. And NATO members approved their membership.
Perhaps those former USSR nations feared what is happening in Ukraine back then.
Link to that number?why should I be mad, other than Biden has squandered 400 billion on a losing war.
Link to that number?
I'll wait.
Western Governments.
By March 2024, mostly Western governments had pledged more than $380 billion worth of aid to Ukraine since the invasion, including nearly $118 billion in direct military aid from individual countries.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ne_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> European countries have provided €132 billion in aid (military, financial and humanitarian) as of December 2024, and the United States has provided €114 billion.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...ne_during_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a> Most of the US funding supports American industries who produce weapons and military equipment.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...g_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#cite_note-cfr.org-6"><span>[</span>6<span>]</span></a>
In total, the United States has committed more than $69.2 billion in security assistance to Ukraine since 2014, including approximately $65.9 billion since the beginning of Russia's full-scale invasion on 24 February 2022.
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