As governments fumbled their coronavirus response, these four got it right.

[Peter King]

Here is just one of our resident partisan left wing hack in this forum problem

Germany with 83 million people and 146,398 has an infection rate of a little less than the U.S..0018 vs .0023, insignificant difference especially when you factor in size of the geography and the 50 different state governments here but by all means keep trying to blame Trump, going to be a long 4 more years for people like you

You will notice that resident radicals ignore Italy, Spain, and England when comparing infections just like they ignore size and geography as if it didn't matter. Apparently Trump is responsible for the Homeless in California contracting the disease now too.

Yes, for you and the president it must be a real problem that we look at the figures and the facts.

German infection rate is 1,812 per 1,000,000 people, the US rate is 2,647 per 1,000,000. The way you write it down minimizes the reality that 835 as a percentage of the German rate (2,647-1,812) is that the US has a 46% higher rate of infections compared to Germany.

And the real issue is the number of deaths. The US death rate of 150 is more than twice the German death rate which is 62 (again per 1,000,000 cases).

And we are not ignoring Spain or Italy but they are further in their curve compared to the US. Italy is now at about 2,700 cases today, which if you multiply it by 5.5 (about 5.5 times smaller in population than the US) you will see that it is only about half the rate the US is not growing at. And then I am not even looking at the percentage of elderly people in Italy which is much higher than the population of the US.

And Spain is in this case an anomaly, they locked down the country reasonably early but still the virus spread like wildfire. It possibly has to do with the same issue that Italy has, warm weather and people usually living much more communally than people in Germany do. Also Spain might have locked down the country but banned populous funerals on the 31st of March.

I have read about a Spanish funeral that infected more than 60 mourners, but closing that virus source only happened when the crisis was running rampant.

For some reason it seems Spain is not doing a good enough job when it comes to the lockdown and combating the virus.

SO you are right, the US is not the only country people should be discussing but as this is a US forum, most of the discussion is about the US and quite understandably because most posters here live in the US.

 

[Peter King]

You are so right, Obama's booming economy gave us Trump vs. Hillary, thank you Obama!!

Hillary was a terrible candidate, a really unelectable candidate and the democratic party should have heeded the problems she had in winning the normally democratic states. But who know what would have happened if she had not ignored several states and the Ruskies had not been so busy helping Trump being elected.

 

[Peter King]

And with a proper pandemic response, would we already be back to normalcy.

I disagree with of Trump and the federal government, but no, you would not be back to normalcy. That is just illogical because Italy went nuclear early on and it still has hundreds of deaths a day. It would have only slowed the spread and limit the curve, but no, the US would not be back to normalcy. It might be further along but even Trump cannot perform miracles, we have to be fair about that.

 

[Peter King]

The OP did the unthinkable, he pointed to examples of the right way to lead a nation out of this crisis. Unfortunately, with real examples of success, trump and your excuses for his bumbling are exposed by contrast.

Some examples (like Iceland) are too localized to a small and sparsely populated country to be of any real total comparison to the US.

And the German example is not an example to lead the nation out of the crisis, it just showed what Germany was able to do that the US is not. And part of that is the population, really high numbers of ventilators/ICU's, etc. etc. etc.

It gives us handles which can be used to combat the spread of the virus but earlier more aggressive actions were needed to allow Germany to do that. This is now a lesson for the next pandemic. Now we can only look forward and act as responsibly and decidedly that Germany is able to do. Nobody likes to be locked down, but needs must, killing tens of thousands to open up an economy that will then falter when the virus strikes again is not the best way forward.

 

[Peter King]

Amazing isn't it, Trump is responsible for not getting test kits to your local community, didn't realize that was in the Presidential job descriptions. Thought that might just be a local government official like let's say a governor??

Common liberal tactic, never tell us exactly what you would do in a crisis or exactly what the liberal ideology is, rhetoric is all you people spew, offering nothing positive just Trump hatred but then again you are a true liberal utopia, Mass

:lamo The federal government's description is not getting tests kits out to the local government/creating and producing tests kits. Hilarious. That is exactly what the CDC and all other federal divisions should be responsible for. Are you really claiming local government is going to have to create their own test kits?

The buck stops at the president, his "not my problem" behavior is abhorrent and disgraceful.

Common conservative tactic, when your own side has blundered, attack and attack the motives of the other side and whine about how mean they are towards to Trump

 

[Peter King]

Right, the messenger only matters when it is someone you want to believe, content doesn't matter does it? All to promote a liberal agenda of total and complete dependence having someone else pay for your personal responsibility issues, Here is another one, this one from Canada.

Been in this forum for 11 years and have yet to see a liberal admit when wrong, right on every issue but never explaining exactly what the liberal ideology is all about. Evidence shows it is a complete failure so attach yourself to that ideology and have no credibility

America’s Pyrrhic Victory
America’s Pyrrhic Victory

So first a talking head from Foxnews, aka Trump TV, state TV and then the Canada free press. An online conservative tabloid with low truth value and an extreme conservative bias. Yeah, not even going to bother reading such drivel.

 

[Sand Castle]

I disagree with of Trump and the federal government, but no, you would not be back to normalcy. That is just illogical because Italy went nuclear early on and it still has hundreds of deaths a day. It would have only slowed the spread and limit the curve, but no, the US would not be back to normalcy. It might be further along but even Trump cannot perform miracles, we have to be fair about that.

Italy actually did not respond well, very similar to trump and his administration. As pointed out earlier in this thread, when a competent, expedient, and coordinated response was applied, the pandemic caused less destruction.

Trump is incapable of an average response, and miracle should not be used in the same sentence as trump.

I contend that with a leader possessing average skills, the U.S. would be in much better shape.

A trio of academics — Gary Pisano, Raffaella Sadun, and Michele Zanini — broke down some of the key takeaways from the Italian experience in a new Harvard Business Review article. Italy reached nearly 100,000 Covid-19 cases and more than 10,000 deaths by March 29, becoming the deadliest epicenter in the pandemic. The authors called Covid-19 the country’s “biggest crisis since World War II.”

Beyond the scale of the coronavirus spread there, the Italy outbreak has been marked by a halting and inconsistent response from government officials. They were slow to implement strict social distancing measures and, even once officials began to institute social distancing as Covid-19 cases began to spike, the public did not seem to respond to government directives with urgency.

At this point, the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in the US is greater than the number in Italy both in terms of raw total and with respect to confirmed case counts at the same point in the respective outbreaks.

The Harvard researchers warn that Italy suffered from “a systematic failure to absorb and act upon existing information rapidly and effectively rather than a complete lack of knowledge of what ought to be done.

Coronavirus: What Italy can teach the US about how to end the outbreak - Vox[/B]

 

[Conservative]

Italy actually did not respond well, very similar to trump and his administration. As pointed out earlier in this thread, when a competent, expedient, and coordinated response was applied, the pandemic caused less destruction.

Trump is incapable of an average response, and miracle should not be used in the same sentence as trump.

I contend that with a leader possessing average skills, the U.S. would be in much better shape.

A trio of academics — Gary Pisano, Raffaella Sadun, and Michele Zanini — broke down some of the key takeaways from the Italian experience in a new Harvard Business Review article. Italy reached nearly 100,000 Covid-19 cases and more than 10,000 deaths by March 29, becoming the deadliest epicenter in the pandemic. The authors called Covid-19 the country’s “biggest crisis since World War II.”

Beyond the scale of the coronavirus spread there, the Italy outbreak has been marked by a halting and inconsistent response from government officials. They were slow to implement strict social distancing measures and, even once officials began to institute social distancing as Covid-19 cases began to spike, the public did not seem to respond to government directives with urgency.

At this point, the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases in the US is greater than the number in Italy both in terms of raw total and with respect to confirmed case counts at the same point in the respective outbreaks.

The Harvard researchers warn that Italy suffered from “a systematic failure to absorb and act upon existing information rapidly and effectively rather than a complete lack of knowledge of what ought to be done.

Coronavirus: What Italy can teach the US about how to end the outbreak - Vox[/B]

Let the liberal blame game begin where all the blame rests with the President and none with the governor of NY, Mass, California or any other Blue state!! Stunning ignorance of data and geography. I will take the U.S. results any day and the freedoms we have here over anything in Europe or anywhere else in the world. You people keep placing blame, promoting liberal economic policies and ignore the liberal results of dependence and massive central gov't. The nanny state is alive and well living in that liberal utopia you people are trying to create

 

[Conservative]

Yes, for you and the president it must be a real problem that we look at the figures and the facts.

German infection rate is 1,812 per 1,000,000 people, the US rate is 2,647 per 1,000,000. The way you write it down minimizes the reality that 835 as a percentage of the German rate (2,647-1,812) is that the US has a 46% higher rate of infections compared to Germany.

And the real issue is the number of deaths. The US death rate of 150 is more than twice the German death rate which is 62 (again per 1,000,000 cases).

And we are not ignoring Spain or Italy but they are further in their curve compared to the US. Italy is now at about 2,700 cases today, which if you multiply it by 5.5 (about 5.5 times smaller in population than the US) you will see that it is only about half the rate the US is not growing at. And then I am not even looking at the percentage of elderly people in Italy which is much higher than the population of the US.

And Spain is in this case an anomaly, they locked down the country reasonably early but still the virus spread like wildfire. It possibly has to do with the same issue that Italy has, warm weather and people usually living much more communally than people in Germany do. Also Spain might have locked down the country but banned populous funerals on the 31st of March.

I have read about a Spanish funeral that infected more than 60 mourners, but closing that virus source only happened when the crisis was running rampant.

For some reason it seems Spain is not doing a good enough job when it comes to the lockdown and combating the virus.

SO you are right, the US is not the only country people should be discussing but as this is a US forum, most of the discussion is about the US and quite understandably because most posters here live in the US.

Germany has 83 million people, the U.S. 328 million, Germany in size is 1.9 times smaller than TX, the comparisons are non existent but keep placing blame. Our President isn't the problem, liberal blame placing always is and will be as rhetoric trumps results in the liberal world. So sad that people like you continue to promote a failed ideology as the results never match the rhetoric

 

[Sand Castle]

Some examples (like Iceland) are too localized to a small and sparsely populated country to be of any real total comparison to the US.

And the German example is not an example to lead the nation out of the crisis, it just showed what Germany was able to do that the US is not. And part of that is the population, really high numbers of ventilators/ICU's, etc. etc. etc.

It gives us handles which can be used to combat the spread of the virus but earlier more aggressive actions were needed to allow Germany to do that. This is now a lesson for the next pandemic. Now we can only look forward and act as responsibly and decidedly that Germany is able to do. Nobody likes to be locked down, but needs must, killing tens of thousands to open up an economy that will then falter when the virus strikes again is not the best way forward.

I favor South Korea's response. Proper utilization of U.S. scientific resources by the trump administration, similar to S. Korea, life would be much improved in the U.S.

Testing and information sharing improves quarantine efforts
south korea coronavirus

South Korea reported its first coronavirus case on January 20. In the month after, the number of cases reported there remained low. But a superspreader event in mid-February caused its case total to spike — for nine days the country's epidemic curve looked like a steep staircase as infections climbed.

But South Korea quickly implemented large-scale coronavirus testing, which helped health officials find and notify potentially infected people, then send them into quarantine. By March 17, more than 270,000 Koreans had been tested, in large part at drive-thru and walk-through facilities.

Testing and information sharing improves quarantine efforts
south korea coronavirus

Medical members wearing protective gear guide drivers at a drive-thru coronavirus test facility in Goyang, South Korea, on February 29, 2020.

South Korea reported its first coronavirus case on January 20. In the month after, the number of cases reported there remained low. But a superspreader event in mid-February caused its case total to spike — for nine days the country's epidemic curve looked like a steep staircase as infections climbed.

But South Korea quickly implemented large-scale coronavirus testing, which helped health officials find and notify potentially infected people, then send them into quarantine. By March 17, more than 270,000 Koreans had been tested, in large part at drive-thru and walk-through facilities.

How South Korea controlled its coronavirus outbreak - Business Insider

 

[Conservative]

Hillary was a terrible candidate, a really unelectable candidate and the democratic party should have heeded the problems she had in winning the normally democratic states. But who know what would have happened if she had not ignored several states and the Ruskies had not been so busy helping Trump being elected.

Yes she was and I chose wisely and will do it again in November, Biden isn't a lot better, a multi millionaire public servant with no private sector experience but someone who will tell you what you want to hear and rhetoric trumps results

 

[Conservative]

So first a talking head from Foxnews, aka Trump TV, state TV and then the Canada free press. An online conservative tabloid with low truth value and an extreme conservative bias. Yeah, not even going to bother reading such drivel.

Yes, by all means MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS are much more credible sources spouting rhetoric and never results. It isn't the messenger that is the issue it is the content of the story except in that liberal world where the messenger trumps the message

 

[Sand Castle]

Let the liberal blame game begin where all the blame rests with the President and none with the governor of NY, Mass, California or any other Blue state!! Stunning ignorance of data and geography. I will take the U.S. results any day and the freedoms we have here over anything in Europe or anywhere else in the world. You people keep placing blame, promoting liberal economic policies and ignore the liberal results of dependence and massive central gov't. The nanny state is alive and well living in that liberal utopia you people are trying to create

Yes, a well coordinated national response, early in the pandemic, would have reduced deaths, reduced spread and lessened the economic collapse.

How's your nanny? Below didn't have to happen, but the wrong guy was in charge when the virus hit. How's make America great again going?

Governor Greg Abbott today issued a statement regarding the recently passed $2 trillion federal stimulus package intended to relieve the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, with a special focus on unemployed workers and the state’s hardest-hit businesses.

"We appreciate the speedy passage of this stimulus package designed to provide much-needed relief for hardworking Texas families who have been economically impacted by COVID-19," said Governor Abbott. "While the state of Texas continues to take action to protect public health, we are also committed to working with our federal partners to ensure Texans have the financial relief they need during this time.

Governor Abbott Announces Federal Stimulus Package To Help Texans Affected By COVID-19 | Office of the Texas Governor | Greg Abbott

 

[Conservative]

Yes, a well coordinated national response, early in the pandemic, would have reduced deaths, reduced spread and lessened the economic collapse.

How's your nanny? Below didn't have to happen, but the wrong guy was in charge when the virus hit. How's make America great again going?

Governor Greg Abbott today issued a statement regarding the recently passed $2 trillion federal stimulus package intended to relieve the economic impact of the COVID-19 pandemic, with a special focus on unemployed workers and the state’s hardest-hit businesses.

"We appreciate the speedy passage of this stimulus package designed to provide much-needed relief for hardworking Texas families who have been economically impacted by COVID-19," said Governor Abbott. "While the state of Texas continues to take action to protect public health, we are also committed to working with our federal partners to ensure Texans have the financial relief they need during this time.

Governor Abbott Announces Federal Stimulus Package To Help Texans Affected By COVID-19 | Office of the Texas Governor | Greg Abbott

Yes, of course Impeachment certainly created the support for a national plan, where were the Democrats in January? Presidential debate was the coronavirus discussed? What part of the following time line don't you understand? What part of state and local gov't responsibility don't you understand? Typical liberal, rhetoric trumps results as it is never the liberal's fault for any problems

AS for Abbott, don't see him crying for more federal taxpayer money just continued support. Texans handle their own problems, Blue states always whine and complain

1/6 CDC issues travel advisory for Wuhan.
1/11 CDC tweets about corona related “pneumonia outbreak in China”
1/14 WHO tweets that there is no evidence of human to human transmission.
1/17 CDC started doing health screenings at 3 airports of travelers from China.
1/21 first case in US for someone who traveled directly from Wuhan.
1/23 WHO again says no human to human transmission outside of China.
1/27 WHO raises alert level but is still saying China has it contained.
1/28 CDC states “ While CDC considers covid a serious situation and is taking preparedness measures, the immediate risk in the US is considered low.”
1/29 White House announces Coronavirus Task Force created. Note - this is despite the WHO downplaying the threat!
1/31 Trump bans travel from China

You liberals are a true waste of time, all talk, no action and total blame for someone else. Results don't match and will never match your rhetoric

 

[Aberro]

How four governments got their coronavirus response right - CNN



I keep hearing from Trump cultists and apologists that "no one could have seen this coming", and that Trump isn't an incompetent idiot, and so on. Well, there is absolutely no reason why the U.S. could not have done at least as good a job as Taiwan, South Korea, Iceland, and Germany. This is a great article that summarizes the things that these four countries did to successfully combat the pandemic.

Your link is a known fake news site.

 

[Peter King]

Congress knows that raising taxes does not increase GDP (thus will slow its growth rate), but deficit spending does increase GDP (and its growth rate). So long as deficit spending results in congressional re-election rates of over 90%, deficit spending will remain federal "budget" policy. This is likely to work for quite a while - until it results in out of control inflation and forces Austerity Day.

For those unwilling to read it, I am going to harshly attack congressmen/congresswomen/senators of both the federal and state governments. And I am attacking politicians from BOTH PARTIES.

What once was a proper system is now a money grubbing **** show (to put it mildly). Politicians have been so used to power and influence that they have become addicted to the seat they hold and are doing everything to hold on to it. Not for their party or the country, but for their own selfish reasons. And almost all politicians who are in the senate or congress for more than 12 years are infected with this selfish need for power.

This is the problem with districts where the power of such a political figure is almost absolute. That is why it is near impossible to oust such a politician (besides a huge swing in the vote) but they are almost totally insulated from competition inside their own party and know this.

And both parties have these career power hungry money grabbers who are in their positions for their own wealth and power, and not for the good of the country or even their state. So they will do almost everything in their power to hold on to that power and that makes it almost impossible to get to a consensus or making deals across they aisle.

 

[Peter King]

Germany has 83 million people, the U.S. 328 million, Germany in size is 1.9 times smaller than TX, the comparisons are non existent but keep placing blame. Our President isn't the problem, liberal blame placing always is and will be as rhetoric trumps results in the liberal world. So sad that people like you continue to promote a failed ideology as the results never match the rhetoric

Repeating the same failed arguments is not going to change anything. Germany with it's higher population density is even more in danger than a country with lower density.

And I place blame where blame belongs, which is mostly with the federal government and governors not willing to do their best to protect their citizens and lower the curve.

 

[Peter King]

I favor South Korea's response. Proper utilization of U.S. scientific resources by the trump administration, similar to S. Korea, life would be much improved in the U.S.

Testing and information sharing improves quarantine efforts
south korea coronavirus

South Korea reported its first coronavirus case on January 20. In the month after, the number of cases reported there remained low. But a superspreader event in mid-February caused its case total to spike — for nine days the country's epidemic curve looked like a steep staircase as infections climbed.

But South Korea quickly implemented large-scale coronavirus testing, which helped health officials find and notify potentially infected people, then send them into quarantine. By March 17, more than 270,000 Koreans had been tested, in large part at drive-thru and walk-through facilities.

Testing and information sharing improves quarantine efforts
south korea coronavirus

Medical members wearing protective gear guide drivers at a drive-thru coronavirus test facility in Goyang, South Korea, on February 29, 2020.

South Korea reported its first coronavirus case on January 20. In the month after, the number of cases reported there remained low. But a superspreader event in mid-February caused its case total to spike — for nine days the country's epidemic curve looked like a steep staircase as infections climbed.

But South Korea quickly implemented large-scale coronavirus testing, which helped health officials find and notify potentially infected people, then send them into quarantine. By March 17, more than 270,000 Koreans had been tested, in large part at drive-thru and walk-through facilities.

How South Korea controlled its coronavirus outbreak - Business Insider

The testing that South Korea implemented are a task of the national government of any country. The absolute adherence to the edict of their government also helped fighting the corona pandemic. But testing, separating and strict adherence was the way South Korea was rather successful, but it is even less applicable to the US than the German example is.

 

[Peter King]

Yes she was and I chose wisely and will do it again in November, Biden isn't a lot better, a multi millionaire public servant with no private sector experience but someone who will tell you what you want to hear and rhetoric trumps results

Yes, and look how much that private business experience helped him in the few times he was confronted with a crisis. He failed miserably or did the exact opposite of uniting the country. But sure, vote for whomever you want, that is the great privilege of living in a democracy.

It is more that most Americans trust Biden when it comes to a lot of problems which presidents have to deal with. Only with the economy and taxes Trump has the lead, but in most topics he trails Biden. Especially because the vast majority of those polled have a very grim view of Trump's honesty/trustworthiness.

 

[Peter King]

Yes, by all means MSNBC, CNN, NBC, CBS are much more credible sources spouting rhetoric and never results. It isn't the messenger that is the issue it is the content of the story except in that liberal world where the messenger trumps the message

Well I cannot help it that you use sources which are mostly even less trustworthy than the ones you named.

 

[Conservative]

Repeating the same failed arguments is not going to change anything. Germany with it's higher population density is even more in danger than a country with lower density.

And I place blame where blame belongs, which is mostly with the federal government and governors not willing to do their best to protect their citizens and lower the curve.

This is a non issue, this country has 328 million people spread over 50 different sovereign states, suggest you read our Constitution and learn the role of state and local governments and stop blaming the President

 

[Bullseye]

Do the four together have as many people or as much acreage?

 

[ttwtt78640]

For those unwilling to read it, I am going to harshly attack congressmen/congresswomen/senators of both the federal and state governments. And I am attacking politicians from BOTH PARTIES.

What once was a proper system is now a money grubbing **** show (to put it mildly). Politicians have been so used to power and influence that they have become addicted to the seat they hold and are doing everything to hold on to it. Not for their party or the country, but for their own selfish reasons. And almost all politicians who are in the senate or congress for more than 12 years are infected with this selfish need for power.

This is the problem with districts where the power of such a political figure is almost absolute. That is why it is near impossible to oust such a politician (besides a huge swing in the vote) but they are almost totally insulated from competition inside their own party and know this.

And both parties have these career power hungry money grabbers who are in their positions for their own wealth and power, and not for the good of the country or even their state. So they will do almost everything in their power to hold on to that power and that makes it almost impossible to get to a consensus or making deals across they aisle.

We are now in phase 3.5 of ? phases of the unanimous (bipartisan?) congressional COVID-19 "crisis" borrowing (printing?) and spending spree. Coming soon is the "we must make the states/districts whole" phase where each states'/districts' congress critter converts (transfers?) any (and all) state/district additional COVID-19 related state/local government spending (or state/local tax revenue loss) into additional national debt. This will result in having an effectively negative federal taxation rate for FY2020 - where total annual federal deficit spending exceeds the total annual federal (tax) revenue.

 

[Peter King]

This is a non issue, this country has 328 million people spread over 50 different sovereign states, suggest you read our Constitution and learn the role of state and local governments and stop blaming the President

Nope, I will not, it may be the governors who close states (lock down) but it is the president and the federal government who should lead in such a pandemic. To keep excusing such an abject failure from the government in this crisis is just ludicrous.

The federal government should have taken the lead in this issue and they should not have been worsening the crisis. The idiotic bumbling for example on Chloroquine by the president has been a tragic big fail. You cannot go around naming medicines for which you have NO evidence that it works against corona or what the risks are in corona patients. Non-peer reviewed studies have given us evidence that Chloroquine is more deadly than regular treatment.

The Dutch hospital who was testing this Chloroquine had to stop using it because it was messing with the breathing of the patients.

1. No working test at first (first mistake was on the part of the CDC, after that the president should have put someone on this to make sure there was a new tests ASAP)

2. not enough tests, not enough swabs, not enough places to test people (but this is also to some degree the fault of the governors but when they do not have enough tests then the fault returns to the federal government

3. not using the power the president had to force companies to start mass production of PPP, ventilators, etc. etc. etc.

4. putting someone else but a non-medically trained politician (his VP) in charge of the corona crisis

It is not all the fault of the president, but he is the one in charge of the federal government, he should have put FEMA at work really quickly.

 

[Peter King]

Do the four together have as many people or as much acreage?

And this has what to do with the problem of corona? The biggest problem so far was in NY, because the density of the people living there is so high. Germany, South Korea and Taiwan have people who live more closely together than most parts in the US. That worsens a pandemic like corona.