Article with various arguments around the issues raised by the Ukraine war

[Craig234]

Deleted

Your lying behavior is despicable and your posts will not get read further.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

RUSSIAN PROPAGANDA

Your shitty OP that tried to argue we shouldn't help a neighbor being raped is despicable and your posts will not get read further.

 

[Antiwar]

Total nonsense. At no point did Ukraine threaten the national security or territorial integrity of Russia. Lol, some internet guy named antiwar doing everything he can to defend a war started solely by Russia. Was your name meant to be ironic?

I get it- you're rabid about the injustice. But several actual Russian history experts and progressive political pundits have said that's the case. Look at the comments I've posted with actual reasoning from these very knowledgeable people. If you disagree, then make an actual argument, not an emotional 'nut uh!' 'because I say so' non-argument.

You're so blinded by your fury that you can't see that both 'Putin wrongly attacked Ukraine' and 'conditions created a perceived threat' can be true at the same time.

It has not a mother****ing thing to do with 'Oh, you're providing cover for Putin!'

I've taken the anti-war position. You've taken the pro-war position.

Has anyone said that "Ukraine threaten[ed] the national security or territorial integrity of Russia"? I believe the point is that NATO has Russia surrounded, and the US has nuclear (I believe) weapons very near Russia. That's like the USSR having nuclear weapons in Cuba.

 

[Antiwar]

The first five words of the article:

Nothing justifies the Russian invasion

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I get it- you're rabid about the injustice. But several actual Russian history experts and progressive political pundits have said that's the case. Look at the comments I've posted with actual reasoning from these very knowledgeable people. If you disagree, then make an actual argument, not an emotional 'nut uh!' 'because I say so' non-argument.

You're so blinded by your fury that you can't see that both 'Putin wrongly attacked Ukraine' and 'conditions created a perceived threat' can be true at the same time.

It has not a mother****ing thing to do with 'Oh, you're providing cover for Putin!'

I've taken the anti-war position. You've taken the pro-war position.

Your position of "poor Russia was forced into it by the true villains, the US" is not an anti-war position.

You're someone who wouldn't help a neighbor you saw being raped because your involvement would require violence or assisting her to commit violence. It's a ***** ass position you should be ashamed of.

 

[Mithrae]

@Antiwar don't feed the dromedaries

 

[Antiwar]

Your position of "poor Russia was forced into it by the true villains, the US" is not an anti-war position.

I've never said anything remotely close to "poor Russia." And, yes, my position is an anti-war position. Listen to those people I quoted and such, then maybe you'll understand. I think it's less than ten minutes of a video where he makes an excellent case. You're taking the "Putin is Hitler" position, which means there's no negotiating with Hitler. The other position allows for negotiation.

You're someone who wouldn't help a neighbor you saw being raped because your involvement would require violence or assisting her to commit violence. It's a ***** ass position you should be ashamed of.

Ridiculous and offensive. Nobody has said that Russia should be allowed to continue attacking Ukraine. They're trying to end it diplomatically.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

I've never said anything remotely close to "poor Russia." And, yes, my position is an anti-war position. Listen to those people I quoted and such, then maybe you'll understand. I think it's less than ten minutes of a video where he makes an excellent case. You're taking the "Putin is Hitler" position, which means there's no negotiating with Hitler. The other position allows for negotiation.


Ridiculous and offensive. Nobody has said that Russia should be allowed to continue attacking Ukraine. They're trying to end it diplomatically.

You don't want anything to be done to stop Russia and you think negotiating them will stop the war, which it clearly won't. You're not anti-war, you're anti-action of any kind. You'd rather watch the Ukrainian people get raped from what you think is your moral high ground.

Tell us, how would you stop this war seeing as how you oppose our involvement 100% and Russia has refused to negotiate leaving.

 

[Antiwar]

You don't want anything to be done to stop Russia and you think negotiating them will stop the war, which it clearly won't. You're not anti-war, you're anti-action of any kind. You'd rather watch the Ukrainian people get raped from what you think is your moral high ground.

Tell us, how would you stop this war seeing as how you oppose our involvement 100% and Russia has refused to negotiate leaving.

1. We should've done are best to PREVENT this war.

2. A strong truly international justice system should deal with human rights abuses.

2a. We don't have that, and the USG (the HEAVYWEIGHT) doesn't want that because it wants to dominate the globe. They actually say that shit. The USG is a bigger asshole than Russia. The USG has nuclear weapons, armies and such, all over the suffering planet. The USG and US corporations ARM the world. The USG ****s with a lot of other countries.

 

[Antiwar]

I have done a deep dive on the article, but I'm hearing some of these same things from other solid progressive sources.

Quoting:

U.S. "missile defense" systems, which could be converted to fire offensive nuclear missiles, are based in Poland and Romania, including at a base in Poland only 100 miles from the Russian border.

End quoting.

They're supposedly for defense from other countries, but that shit's very close to Russia. What if Russia had shit like that very close to the US?

 

[Craig234]

The USG is a bigger asshole than Russia. The USG has nuclear weapons, armies and such, all over the suffering planet. The USG and US corporations ARM the world. The USG ****s with a lot of other countries.

I disagree about the US being a bigger... than Russia. Though I admit we've done some worse things and the list is long. But fundamentally, the US is promoting better things for people globally than the other powers we're at odds with, China and Russia, would, and so it's a moral issue for the US to help democracy globally.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

1. We should've done are best to PREVENT this war.

2. A strong truly international justice system should deal with human rights abuses.

2a. We don't have that, and the USG (the HEAVYWEIGHT) doesn't want that because it wants to dominate the globe. They actually say that shit. The USG is a bigger asshole than Russia. The USG has nuclear weapons, armies and such, all over the suffering planet. The USG and US corporations ARM the world. The USG ****s with a lot of other countries.

The only thing you're suggesting is negotiating, which we've tried, and Russia won't budge on owning Ukraine. You have no other suggestions and want us to watch Ukraine get raped. You're not anti-war if you don't want to do anything to stop it.