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Arkansas House passes unconstitutional bill putting creationism in schools (4/16/21)

Teaching creationism in schools is something you'd expect to see in Iran, not in a developed country like the US.
Depends upon how one look/define developed
This is just another front in the never ending culture wars brought to you courtesy of the Republican party

Developed- world looked on as mask wearing in a pandemic became a debatable scientific tool known to prevent transmission of a deadly virus
 
If banning certain guns along with requiring licenses and permits regarding firearms doesn't violate the 2A, then this doesn't even come close to violating the first amendment.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
 
SCOTUS hasn't declared it illegal.

Edwards v. Aguillard


On June 19, 1987 the Supreme Court, in a seven-to-two majority opinion written by Justice William J. Brennan, ruled that the Act constituted an unconstitutional infringement on the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, based on the three-pronged Lemon test, which is:

  1. The government's action must have a legitimate secular purpose;
  2. The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion; and
  3. The government's action must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of the government and religion.
The Supreme Court held that the Act is facially invalid as violative of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, because it lacks a clear secular purpose (first part of the above Lemon test), since (a) the Act does not further its stated secular purpose of "protecting academic freedom", and (b) the Act impermissibly endorses religion by advancing the religious belief that a supernatural being created humankind.[1]

However, it did note that alternative scientific theories could be taught:

We do not imply that a legislature could never require that scientific critiques of prevailing scientific theories be taught. ... Teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to schoolchildren might be validly done with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction.[1]
The Court found that, although the Louisiana legislature had stated that its purpose was to "protect academic freedom", that purpose was dubious because the Act gave Louisiana teachers no freedom they did not already possess and instead limited their ability to determine what scientific principles should be taught. Because it was unconvinced by the state's proffered secular purpose, the Court went on to find that the legislature had a "preeminent religious purpose in enacting this statute".[1]
 
Looks like Arkansas has tons of money to spend in court.
 
Why does that matter? If a teacher teaches it, it's a mandate for that teacher's students. Same problem on a smaller scale.
It matters because of exactly what the Constitution says. And it says nothing about teachers teaching.
 

Edwards v. Aguillard


On June 19, 1987 the Supreme Court, in a seven-to-two majority opinion written by Justice William J. Brennan, ruled that the Act constituted an unconstitutional infringement on the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, based on the three-pronged Lemon test, which is:

  1. The government's action must have a legitimate secular purpose;
  2. The government's action must not have the primary effect of either advancing or inhibiting religion; and
  3. The government's action must not result in an "excessive entanglement" of the government and religion.
The Supreme Court held that the Act is facially invalid as violative of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, because it lacks a clear secular purpose (first part of the above Lemon test), since (a) the Act does not further its stated secular purpose of "protecting academic freedom", and (b) the Act impermissibly endorses religion by advancing the religious belief that a supernatural being created humankind.[1]

However, it did note that alternative scientific theories could be taught:


The Court found that, although the Louisiana legislature had stated that its purpose was to "protect academic freedom", that purpose was dubious because the Act gave Louisiana teachers no freedom they did not already possess and instead limited their ability to determine what scientific principles should be taught. Because it was unconvinced by the state's proffered secular purpose, the Court went on to find that the legislature had a "preeminent religious purpose in enacting this statute".[1]
This ruling involves legislation that REQUIRED creationism to be taught.

The Arkansas law has no such requirement.

Therefore that ruling is irrelevant.
 
SCOTUS ruled it unconstitutional to teach creationism in public schools.
Wrong. The Supreme Court has made no such ruling. The Supreme Court has ruled it unconstitutional for a legislature to REQUIRE that creationism be taught in public schools.
 
It matters because of exactly what the Constitution says. And it says nothing about teachers teaching.

When those teachers are government employees with a captive audience, yes it does.
 
When those teachers are government employees with a captive audience, yes it does.
sigh...

Show me where the Constitution forbids teachers...whether government employees or otherwise...from teaching anything.

Look. The 1st Amendment is very clear about who it pertains to and what actions are forbidden. Teachers and teaching is not what it is about.

I suggest you read that 1st Amendment.
 
sigh...

Show me where the Constitution forbids teachers...whether government employees or otherwise...from teaching anything.

Look. The 1st Amendment is very clear about who it pertains to and what actions are forbidden. Teachers and teaching is not what it is about.

I suggest you read that 1st Amendment.
Wrong. The Supreme Court has made no such ruling. The Supreme Court has ruled it unconstitutional for a legislature to REQUIRE that creationism be taught in public schools.
Cite your source.
You are misinterpreting the ruling. Creationism can be taught but not in a science class.

(wiki)
In 1968, the US Supreme Court ruled on Epperson v. Arkansas, another challenge to these laws, and the court ruled that allowing the teaching of creation, while disallowing the teaching of evolution, advanced a religion, and therefore violated the Establishment Clause of the constitution. Creationists then starting lobbying to have laws passed that required teachers to Teach the Controversy, but this was also struck down by the Supreme Court in 1987 in Edwards v. Aguillard. Creationists then moved to frame the issue as one of intelligent design but this too was ruled against in a District Court in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District in 2005.

The issue has remained contentious, with various US states debating, passing, or voting down alternative approaches to creationism in science classrooms. There is no bar in US law to creationism being taught in civics, current affairs, philosophy, or comparative religion classes.

 
Cite your source.
You are misinterpreting the ruling. Creationism can be taught but not in a science class.

(wiki)
In 1968, the US Supreme Court ruled on Epperson v. Arkansas, another challenge to these laws, and the court ruled that allowing the teaching of creation, while disallowing the teaching of evolution, advanced a religion, and therefore violated the Establishment Clause of the constitution. Creationists then starting lobbying to have laws passed that required teachers to Teach the Controversy, but this was also struck down by the Supreme Court in 1987 in Edwards v. Aguillard. Creationists then moved to frame the issue as one of intelligent design but this too was ruled against in a District Court in Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District in 2005.

The issue has remained contentious, with various US states debating, passing, or voting down alternative approaches to creationism in science classrooms. There is no bar in US law to creationism being taught in civics, current affairs, philosophy, or comparative religion classes.

allowing the teaching of creation, while disallowing the teaching of evolution​
have laws passed that required teachers​

This is the operative portion of these rulings. It is about legislation that requires or disallows the teaching...not the teaching, itself.

And in the Arkansas law there is no mandate to teach or not teach creationism or evolution. The Arkansas law simply says they may be taught.

So far, there is no court ruling that says whether creationism or evolution may or may not be taught.
 
I thought we'd resolved this idiocy a century ago in the Scopes "Monkey Trial"... (Proving once again that Arkansas is a century behind Tennessee...)
Scopes lost.
 
allowing the teaching of creation, while disallowing the teaching of evolution​
have laws passed that required teachers​

This is the operative portion of these rulings. It is about legislation that requires or disallows the teaching...not the teaching, itself.

And in the Arkansas law there is no mandate to teach or not teach creationism or evolution. The Arkansas law simply says they may be taught.

So far, there is no court ruling that says whether creationism or evolution may or may not be taught.
The Court ruled creationism cannot be taught as science.

Are you planning to cite a source for your opinions? If not you're just trolling.
 
sigh...

Show me where the Constitution forbids teachers...whether government employees or otherwise...from teaching anything.

Look. The 1st Amendment is very clear about who it pertains to and what actions are forbidden. Teachers and teaching is not what it is about.

I suggest you read that 1st Amendment.
Is there anyone here who doesn't have the 1st Amendment memorized?
 
Thank you for being honest.

It's not that you object to the indoctrination of children, it's that you object to the wrong kind of indoctrination.
And your own lack of honesty shows in how you decided to edit my comment and wrongfully present my argument.
 
The assumption that creation theory is religious in nature means that all religious theory would be illegal in schools. So teaching about Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and other mainstream religions would be illegal because they are religious. Teaching theory is not establishment of state religion. If it were then we would be saying Islam is the state religion or Judaism, or any of a number of world religions including Christianity in general. The religions include Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Taoism, Judaism, Confucianism, Bahá'í, Shinto, Jainism, and Zoroastrianism. So this idea that teaching theory would make any of them a State religion is wrongful thinking.

I suspect you are not a believer in Christianity. Oh yea of little faith. If you don't believe in Christianity then creationism falls into the realm of theory, like Big Ban.
Teaching about religion is not illegal, when done contextually, in the correct class. Teaching religious doctrine, any religious doctrine as science is not allowed.
 
The assumption that creation theory is religious in nature means that all religious theory would be illegal in schools. So teaching about Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and other mainstream religions would be illegal because they are religious. Teaching theory is not establishment of state religion. If it were then we would be saying Islam is the state religion or Judaism, or any of a number of world religions including Christianity in general. The religions include Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Taoism, Judaism, Confucianism, Bahá'í, Shinto, Jainism, and Zoroastrianism. So this idea that teaching theory would make any of them a State religion is wrongful thinking.

I suspect you are not a believer in Christianity. Oh yea of little faith. If you don't believe in Christianity then creationism falls into the realm of theory, like Big Ban.
Teaching all of those things is fine in an elective religious studies class. I had a class like that in both high school and in college.
 
sigh...

Show me where the Constitution forbids teachers...whether government employees or otherwise...from teaching anything.

Look. The 1st Amendment is very clear about who it pertains to and what actions are forbidden. Teachers and teaching is not what it is about.

I suggest you read that 1st Amendment.
So then teachers could teach anything they want, so long as a law in their state does not prohibit it, according to this logic? And the SCOTUS rulings only apply to being required to teach certain religious things? If true, then teachers could teach Sharia law as part of a law lesson or teach that the Titans built humans to be slaves and their god children freed us for their own amusements as part of science and/or history as well.
 

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted before but I searched & found nothing recent, so here is the news:

Despite unanimous Democratic opposition, the bill moves on to the Senate.​


ast week, the Arkansas state House of Representatives passed a bill that would amend state education law to allow teachers in public schools to teach creationism as "a theory of how the earth came to exist." As it stands, the act promotes blatantly unconstitutional behavior as made clear by a precedent set in a 1982 case involving the Arkansas Board of Education. Despite that, the bill passed 72-21, and it already has a sponsor in the state Senate.
The body of the bill is mercifully short, consisting of two sentence-long amendments to the existing Arkansas code:
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But those two sentences are enough to land teachers and their local school system in a world of trouble, in that the permission given runs afoul of a lot of legal precedent. In a key case that involved Arkansas itself, McLean V. Arkansas Board of Education, a group of plaintiffs banded together to challenge a state law that mandated the teaching of "creation science" in public schools. The judge in that case correctly recognized that creation science was actually religious in nature, and it therefore violated the constitution's prohibition against the establishment of state religion.
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That ruling wasn't appealed, meaning the legal precedent only applied to Arkansas. But later in that same decade, a similar case from Louisiana made it to the Supreme Court, and it reached the same conclusion. The prohibition against creation science has applied nationally since.


Do they not know that "creation science" is a contradiction in terms?

Creationism isn't a science. That's a fact.

The Bible beaters should teach creationism at home.

I wonder if they would allow a Muslim science teacher to teach whatever creationism ideas that religion holds. Doubt it.
 

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted before but I searched & found nothing recent, so here is the news:

Despite unanimous Democratic opposition, the bill moves on to the Senate.​


ast week, the Arkansas state House of Representatives passed a bill that would amend state education law to allow teachers in public schools to teach creationism as "a theory of how the earth came to exist." As it stands, the act promotes blatantly unconstitutional behavior as made clear by a precedent set in a 1982 case involving the Arkansas Board of Education. Despite that, the bill passed 72-21, and it already has a sponsor in the state Senate.
The body of the bill is mercifully short, consisting of two sentence-long amendments to the existing Arkansas code:
Enter your email to get the Ars Technica newsletter
logo




But those two sentences are enough to land teachers and their local school system in a world of trouble, in that the permission given runs afoul of a lot of legal precedent. In a key case that involved Arkansas itself, McLean V. Arkansas Board of Education, a group of plaintiffs banded together to challenge a state law that mandated the teaching of "creation science" in public schools. The judge in that case correctly recognized that creation science was actually religious in nature, and it therefore violated the constitution's prohibition against the establishment of state religion.
Advertisement

That ruling wasn't appealed, meaning the legal precedent only applied to Arkansas. But later in that same decade, a similar case from Louisiana made it to the Supreme Court, and it reached the same conclusion. The prohibition against creation science has applied nationally since.
Creationism and science do not belong in the same sentence.


 
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