Arizona advances "Birther Bill"

[Crunch]

Would you mind providing a link to the bill?

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/hb2441p.pdf

You might notice it isn't 2,700 pages long. :mrgreen:

 

[Crunch]

And you dont think the Federal government would have looked at those documents to ensure the presidential candidates meet constitutional requirements to be president

LOL........ what country have you been living in?

Calero is now a permanent resident alien (holding a green card) since 1990. snip:

In the 2008 presidential election, Calero was on the ballot in five states, where he received 7,209 votes.

Róger Calero - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Crunch]

The issue is that this is not a proposition in a conference of States (I.E. Congress). It is within Arizona's legislature.

If Arizona wanted to propose legislation that Arizona should be able to check Presidential Candidates on a Federal Constitution criteria, then it should be proposed in congress.

For all I care, Arizona could restructure its constitution and create an amendment that says it will not recognize a Federal President if he does not meet the Arizona Constitution requirements.

Basically,

Arizona has no god damn oversight over the constitution.

Arizona has ever right to require a candidate to prove they are eligible to be on the Arizona election ticket.


This is the bill that is in Congress right now.

H.R.1503 - Presidential Eligibility Act
To amend the Federal Election Campaign Act of 1971 to require the principal campaign committee of a candidate for election to the office of President to include with the committee's statement of organization a copy of the candidate's birth certificate, together with such other documentation as may be necessary to establish that the candidate meets the qualifications for eligibility to the Office of President under the Constitution. view all titles (2)

H.R.1503: Presidential Eligibility Act - U.S. Congress - OpenCongress

I doubt it will get anywhere...... The Dems have too much at stake to ever let this pass, and we all know Barry would veto it.

 

[Gina]

The way I read the Bill, it is not questioning Obama. It is for future elections. Gee, love the way things get spinned by the media. Yes, I believe some members have said it would remove any questions of the persons right to run for President, as some have raised about Obama. The bill makes no attempt to discredit Obama.

The link you provided didn't have the text regarding citizenship and meeting requirements, but I did read the bill via another link given in this thread.

Why do you suppose, after we've elected 44 presidents, birth certificates should become an issue now? Surely, in the days of home births and sketchy documentation, this may have been of legitimate concern, yet this kind of bill has never been made law. Why now? Why after THIS president was elected?

It's completely disingenuous to argue this bill has nothing to do with President Obama.

Heck, Governor Schwarzenegger is a US citizen now. He at one time said he would like to run, but he can't because he is not "natural born." If we didn't know his background, would we know he can't run for President.?

by the way I live in Arizona. Laugh all you want. Maybe its AZ has the insight to move ahead.

Schwarzenegger is a poor example. His accent alone would raise questions.

Aside from that, he's famous the world over for being an Austrian body builder.

As for President Obama, he's probably had his passport renewed 3 or 4 times over his life time, thus he must have satisfied the state department that he is a bona fide citizen of the U.S.

http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/hb2441p.pdf

You might notice it isn't 2,700 pages long. :mrgreen:

Thank you! I appreciated that.

 

[Crunch]

The link you provided didn't have the text regarding citizenship and meeting requirements, but I did read the bill via another link given in this thread.

Why do you suppose, after we've elected 44 presidents, birth certificates should become an issue now? Surely, in the days of home births and sketchy documentation, this may have been of legitimate concern, yet this kind of bill has never been made law. Why now? Why after THIS president was elected?

It's completely disingenuous to argue this bill has nothing to do with President Obama.

It isn't just Barry...... McCain wasn't born on US soil (he was born in Colon Panama), and Róger Calero (on the ballot in 5 states 2008) isn't even a citizen. Wouldn't you say something needs to be done at some level?

Schwarzenegger is a poor example. His accent alone would raise questions.

Aside from that, he's famous the world over for being an Austrian body builder.

As for President Obama, he's probably had his passport renewed 3 or 4 times over his life time, thus he must have satisfied the state department that he is a bona fide citizen of the U.S.

As far as anyone can find, Barry never had a US passport until he was given a Senate Passport..... for that you don't need ID.

 

[mike2810]

The link you provided didn't have the text regarding citizenship and meeting requirements, but I did read the bill via another link given in this thread.

Why do you suppose, after we've elected 44 presidents, birth certificates should become an issue now? Surely, in the days of home births and sketchy documentation, this may have been of legitimate concern, yet this kind of bill has never been made law. Why now? Why after THIS president was elected?

It's completely disingenuous to argue this bill has nothing to do with President Obama.

The news has reported this as if it would challenge Obama. The fact is the bill does not, It would require the documention in future elections. The motivation may have been to make sure the "birther" nonsense is not an issue in future elections. Why are you against that?

Birth status has not been brought up in the past 44 election. It was brought up with Obama. Don't you think we have many more US citizens today that are not natural born than let say 20 years ago. This alone would make it more important to make sure canidates meet the requirements to run for President.

Schwarzenegger is a poor example. His accent alone would raise questions.

Aside from that, he's famous the world over for being an Austrian body builder.

Ok, I used a bad political figure for an example.

As for President Obama, he's probably had his passport renewed 3 or 4 times over his life time, thus he must have satisfied the state department that he is a bona fide citizen of the U.S..

One of my first post on this I stated I didn't buy into the "birther" theory and Obama was qualified and one the election.

 

[misterman]

Third: Let's set aside Obama. In general what is wrong with having to prove you meet the requirements to run for any office in the US?

Nothing wrong with it - except for the fact that you just can't "set aside Obama" even if you want to. Politically, this bill is going to be about birthers no matter what they say. If they want to set aside Obama, they need to wait a few years, maybe until he's out of office.

 

[Gina]

It isn't just Barry...... McCain wasn't born on US soil (he was born in Colon Panama), and Róger Calero (on the ballot in 5 states 2008) isn't even a citizen. Wouldn't you say something needs to be done at some level?

As far as anyone can find, Barry never had a US passport until he was given a Senate Passport..... for that you don't need ID.

The process we have seems to be working pretty well, but you know it's only an issue because of Obama and the birthers.

Who can't find that Obama didn't have a passport before he was elected to the senate? He lived in Indonesia from 1967-1971. He visited his mother and sister in Indonesia in 1981. He would need a passport for that.

The news has reported this as if it would challenge Obama. The fact is the bill does not, It would require the documention in future elections. The motivation may have been to make sure the "birther" nonsense is not an issue in future elections. Why are you against that?

Birth status has not been brought up in the past 44 election. It was brought up with Obama. Don't you think we have many more US citizens today that are not natural born than let say 20 years ago. This alone would make it more important to make sure canidates meet the requirements to run for President.

Ok, I used a bad political figure for an example.

One of my first post on this I stated I didn't buy into the "birther" theory and Obama was qualified and one the election.

If this law passes, it could effect Obama in 2012 when he, presumably, runs again, in that future election. I didn't see an exemption for an incumbent president. So in that respect, it could challenge Obama.

None of this would be an issue if Obama had not come along. Democrats didn't give a care about McCain having been born in Panama. It was a non-issue.

No, I don't believe we have many more U.S. citizens today that are not natural born than 20 years ago. Consider the constant waves of immigration that occurred throughout the history of the nation. Europeans have come in droves so numerous they were discriminated against. So no, today is no different from 20 years or 200 years ago. In fact it would have been much easier to fake being a natural citizen, as I said, in the centuries where home birth was more common.

I saw that you posted you are not a "birther", but it you also seem to be justifying the Arizona bill, hence my replies.

 

[misterman]

Who can't find that Obama didn't have a passport before he was elected to the senate? He lived in Indonesia from 1967-1971. He visited his mother and sister in Indonesia in 1981. He would need a passport for that.

How does one find that one doesn't have something?

In any event, do you really think if Obama produced this passport, the birthers wouldn't have about a hundred different theories as to how it was forged, obtained falsely, etc. like with the birth certificate?

There is no point in engaging with conspiracy theorists, they will never give up no matter how absurd their arguments have to become.

 

[Gina]

Nothing wrong with it - except for the fact that you just can't "set aside Obama" even if you want to. Politically, this bill is going to be about birthers no matter what they say. If they want to set aside Obama, they need to wait a few years, maybe until he's out of office.

How does one find that one doesn't have something?

In any event, do you really think if Obama produced this passport, the birthers wouldn't have about a hundred different theories as to how it was forged, obtained falsely, etc. like with the birth certificate?

There is no point in engaging with conspiracy theorists, they will never give up no matter how absurd their arguments have to become.

You are right, the birthers have tarred the issue with their insanity and there is no getting around Orly Taitz, Philip Berg and the multiple law suits which have been filed and thrown out of court. There is not enough disinfectant to cleanse the issue. As long as Obama is president, it will reek from the taint of "birther" movement.

For the birthers, there no amount of proof, reasoning, common sense or even simple pragmatic logic that could ever satisfy them.

 

[misterman]

You are right, the birthers have tarred the issue with their insanity and there is no getting around Orly Taitz, Philip Berg and the multiple law suits which have been filed and thrown out of court. There is not enough disinfectant to cleanse the issue. As long as Obama is president, it will reek from the taint of "birther" movement.

For the birthers, there no amount of proof, reasoning, common sense or even simple pragmatic logic that could ever satisfy them.

Yep, so both sides really ought to stop talking. But we know that won't happen.

 

[Gina]

Yep, so both sides really ought to stop talking. But we know that won't happen.

I know...but sometimes, it's just too much fun to resist. :lol:

 

[misterman]

I know...but sometimes, it's just too much fun to resist. :lol:

I include myself in that group too. I know birthers will never give up, but sometimes it's fun to taunt them in public, and see just how far they'll go.

 

[Crunch]

The process we have seems to be working pretty well, but you know it's only an issue because of Obama and the birthers.

Who can't find that Obama didn't have a passport before he was elected to the senate? He lived in Indonesia from 1967-1971. He visited his mother and sister in Indonesia in 1981. He would need a passport for that.

I didn't say Barry has never been out of the country prior to getting his Senate Passport, I just said that all of the Freedom Of Information Act requests for his passport information prior to that Senate passport came back from the State Dept. that they do not have a passport reguest under the name Barack Obama..... he never had a US passport before the Senate one. :shrug:

 

[Crunch]

I include myself in that group too. I know birthers will never give up, but sometimes it's fun to taunt them in public, and see just how far they'll go.

And it's fun for us to show just how blind you Gullible Faithers are. :mrgreen:

 

[misterman]

I didn't say Barry has never been out of the country prior to getting his Senate Passport, I just said that all of the Freedom Of Information Act requests for his passport information prior to that Senate passport came back from the State Dept. that they do not have a passport reguest under the name Barack Obama..... he never had a US passport before the Senate one. :shrug:

Prove that.

And if there was ever such a FOIA request, it probably said such records are private and not subject to FOIA.

 

[misterman]

And it's fun for us to show just how blind you Gullible Faithers are. :mrgreen:

And here we go.

 

[Crunch]

Prove that.

And if there was ever such a FOIA request, it probably said such records are private and not subject to FOIA.

I know you MM........ no amount of proof would mean a thing to you, so why bother talking to a Gullible Faither when faith is enough?

 

[misterman]

I know you MM........ no amount of proof would mean a thing to you, so why bother talking to a Gullible Faither when faith is enough?

I have no faith in what you claim whatsoever.

 

[Gina]

I know you MM........ no amount of proof would mean a thing to you, so why bother talking to a Gullible Faither when faith is enough?

So you are going to leave your assertion un-substantiated?

 

[misterman]

So you are going to leave your assertion un-substantiated?

I know - if he substantiates it with a PDF of a FOIA request or whatever, I'll just declare it to be a forgery like Obama's birth certificate!

This stuff is fun.

 

[apdst]

Obama is a natural born American citizen. It should be as simple as a fax to qualify to be on the ballot in Arizona. I mean, to all the Obama-bots, since Obama's without a doubt an American citizen, what's the big deal?


Right?!?...:rofl

 

[misterman]

Obama is a natural born American citizen. It should be as simple as a fax to qualify to be on the ballot in Arizona. I mean, to all the Obama-bots, since Obama's without a doubt an American citizen, what's the big deal?


Right?!?...:rofl

Exactly. This bill is a big fat bluff. I think we should support it and call the bluff. Then the idiotic birthers can stop whining and find something new to obsess over.

 

[Gina]

Exactly. This bill is a big fat bluff. I think we should support it and call the bluff. Then the idiotic birthers can stop whining and find something new to obsess over.

But you know, whatever Obama would submit would be declared a forgery/conspiracy and it wouldn't end there. :mrgreen:

There is no reason to believe he'd submit a different document and that hasn't satisfied them. :rofl

 

[Goyboy]

Exactly. This bill is a big fat bluff. I think we should support it and call the bluff. Then the idiotic birthers can stop whining and find something new to obsess over.

I agree. Imagine what might happen in 2012.

1) President Obama runs for re-election. He submits his birth certificate to the state of Arizona. The state then acknowledges that Obama is a natural-born US citizen and places him on the Arizona ballots. The result is that birthers are proven to be wrong. . .

. . . or . . .

2) President Obama submits his birth certificate to the state of Arizona. A birther challenges the authenticity of Obama's birth certificate by filing a lawsuit. A state judge rules that the birth certificate is authentic. The result is that birthers are proven to be wrong.

Either way, enforcement of Arizona's law would result in the humiliation of birthers.