Arguments for the existence of God[W:740] (1 Viewer)

[OldFatGuy]

Why confuse the issue? Known by different names, but there is only one god. I speak to her everyday, but she doesn't answer me back. I think Mother Terra finds me boring.

 

[RAMOSS]

Why confuse the issue? Known by different names, but there is only one god. I speak to her everyday, but she doesn't answer me back. I think Mother Terra finds me boring.

How do you know there is only one?

 

[Daisy]

Why confuse the issue? Known by different names, but there is only one god. I speak to her everyday, but she doesn't answer me back. I think Mother Terra finds me boring.

:attn1:...you have entered the Twilight Zone...:afraid::giggle1:

 

[OldFatGuy]

A life long atheist is enjoying a nature walk on the first nice day of autumn to enjoy the foliage, when suddenly a gigantic bear rises from the underbrush about 20 feet on his right and starts charging at him. He can't help himself, loudly exclaims "Dear God help me!" Everything comes to a complete stop and God appears in front of him asking "After all these years of denial, now you ask for me to intercede?" He looks up and responds "Lord, you're right, it would be disingenuous at the least, certainly immoral, so can you at least turn the bear into a religious bear?" God says "Why not?" All returns to as it was, and the bear is still charging at him. Not from 2 feet away, the bear rises to his hind legs, puts his front paws in front of him like a supplicant, speaks out to our lord saying "Lord we thank you for this meal we are about to receive."

 

[devildavid]

Great question...

A great question would be, can god believe?

 

[shrubnose]

That would only be the case if god was what we would consider to be good

What if he was more like a 12 year old boy with an ant farm and a magnifying glass having fun with his insignificant pets

Then we'd have the same situation that we have now.

Maybe mankind will get it right eventually.Let's keep our fingers crossed and off of the red buttons.

:lol:

 

[HowardBThiname]

But the argument purports to show God didn't come to be - he is the uncaused cause.

I don't know quite what you mean by understand existence. The argument purports to show God is his own sufficient reason, to use the technical term, so their is an explanation of him, though it isn't in causal terms (as it can't be).

A "first principal" or "priory truth" argument should be able to be tested in some manner, but the God theory cannot be.

For example, the first principal theory could apply just as easily in the OP to the Big Bang as it applies to God. A person could start a new thread and entitle it evidence for the Big Bang theory and post virtually the same OP.

While I'm not a religious person, I've heard much better arguments for God than trying to apply a first principal theory. It's just not the right theory to use in this type of a situation.

 

[shrubnose]

A "first principal" or "priory truth" argument should be able to be tested in some manner, but the God theory cannot be.

For example, the first principal theory could apply just as easily in the OP to the Big Bang as it applies to God. A person could start a new thread and entitle it evidence for the Big Bang theory and post virtually the same OP.

While I'm not a religious person, I've heard much better arguments for God than trying to apply a first principal theory.

It's just not the right theory to use in this type of a situation.

No one will ever prove that God exists because he doesn't.

If anyone has proof to the contrary let's see it right now.

The clock is ticking.

:lol:

 

[HowardBThiname]

No one will ever prove that God exists because he doesn't.

If anyone has proof to the contrary let's see it right now.

The clock is ticking.

:lol:

I agree. It's not going to happen. I just wanted him to know why the first principal concept did not apply.

 

[OldFatGuy]

"There can be only one."

Sean Connery said it in Highlander.

And I have a problem counting beyond 1. My fingers and toes get in the way.

 

[OldFatGuy]

You woke this morning, one of God's miracles.

When the doctoral staff at Cornell Columbia Presbyterian in NYC were surveyed by name as to whether or not they believed in religion more than 90% declared with a negative, when those same doctors were anonymously surveyed a month later as to the existence of God, more than 90% responded with a positive. When further queried the doctors almost unanimously claimed they didn't want to believe life is an accident.

Descarte is attributed with the statement "I think therefore I am." Certainly it is not beyond the imagination to view thinking as an illusion. Therefore the only real proof of existence is time, a man created abstract explaining the inexplicable. No other animal notes the time of day for afternoon tea or a mint julep.

Faith does not require proof, only belief.

 

[Cephus]

Philosophical arguments don't actually prove anything, they are a means of making people who believe for bad reasons feel better about their bad beliefs. The only thing that will prove the existence of any god is objective evidence.

And theists have none.

 

[Northern Light]

There's no concrete evidence that the universe has a beginning or an end. Science has its first miracle which is the big bang. Religion has its first miracle which is God.

Humans have this innate drive to need to come up with a first premise, otherwise they don't seem to cope with reality too well.

We may be arguing universalisms but really what underlies that is a personal coping truth.

The mistake people make is trying to convince others that their coping mechanism is real or true rather than just owning it internally.

After all language is a faulty medium and even if we had perfect speech people would still not want to accept a premise other than the one that their whole reality is based upon.

Maybe through our personal coping mechanisms we are all in touch with the same truth, which is transpersonal, but as soon as we resort to semantics it creates an artificial sense of division.

I believe that the "oneness" is inherent to the sense of connection and security which underlies everyone's diverse premises so arguing about it verbally is not only pointless it's also redundant.

And maybe looking at that is the True Thing that everyone is avoiding because to admit its universality would mean to forego everything you hold dear and delve into a truly unknown position.

 

[RAMOSS]

A life long atheist is enjoying a nature walk on the first nice day of autumn to enjoy the foliage, when suddenly a gigantic bear rises from the underbrush about 20 feet on his right and starts charging at him. He can't help himself, loudly exclaims "Dear God help me!" Everything comes to a complete stop and God appears in front of him asking "After all these years of denial, now you ask for me to intercede?" He looks up and responds "Lord, you're right, it would be disingenuous at the least, certainly immoral, so can you at least turn the bear into a religious bear?" God says "Why not?" All returns to as it was, and the bear is still charging at him. Not from 2 feet away, the bear rises to his hind legs, puts his front paws in front of him like a supplicant, speaks out to our lord saying "Lord we thank you for this meal we are about to receive."

And those fake stories fun?? You can make them have any lesson you want, and it doesn't have to make sense at all!

 

[OldFatGuy]

That's exactly part of the point, isn't it? How can we assume God doesn't have a sense of humor?

Mythologist Joe Campbell, very much an entertainer during his latter years, showed us how myths develop from truths, at times distant from truth, but still having a basis in truth.

Modern anthropologists are learning people had greater networks than previously expected, as they avoided incest and inbreeding, not necessarily the biological science. They understood the dangers. In the days of the oral tradition, there is nothing to evident stories of real people, real events couldn't have traveled similar paths. And as when we were children playing the game Telephone, we learned how even the simplest of statement took on a life of their own, meanings far different than origination as the statements traveled from ear to ear. Stories and themes with universal appeals likely expanded, traveled further, and became what we know them as today.

 

[Sweden]

You woke this morning, one of God's miracles.

When the doctoral staff at Cornell Columbia Presbyterian in NYC were surveyed by name as to whether or not they believed in religion more than 90% declared with a negative, when those same doctors were anonymously surveyed a month later as to the existence of God, more than 90% responded with a positive. When further queried the doctors almost unanimously claimed they didn't want to believe life is an accident.

Descarte is attributed with the statement "I think therefore I am." Certainly it is not beyond the imagination to view thinking as an illusion. Therefore the only real proof of existence is time, a man created abstract explaining the inexplicable. No other animal notes the time of day for afternoon tea or a mint julep.

Faith does not require proof, only belief.

That's true. Faith does not even require evidence, never mind proof. The list of absurdities in which the religious may believe is practically endless.

Other animals do have a sense of the time of day. If not for a mint julep - what ever that might be - then when best to visit the watering hole.

 

[OldFatGuy]

People manage to believe in many absurdities having nothing to do with religion. Let me tell you the one about the little green men and the UFO conspiracies, never mind, boring.

Animals tend to drink when thirsty, and approach water sources when they think predators won't be hanging around, or their own groups seem large enough to be protective. Many humans don't have enough common sense to drink when they're thirsty, as evidenced by all those who unnecessarily suffer from insufficient hydration.

 

[Daisy]

People manage to believe in many absurdities having nothing to do with religion. Let me tell you the one about the little green men and the UFO conspiracies, never mind, boring.

Animals tend to drink when thirsty, and approach water sources when they think predators won't be hanging around, or their own groups seem large enough to be protective. Many humans don't have enough common sense to drink when they're thirsty, as evidenced by all those who unnecessarily suffer from insufficient hydration.

I like the way you think...I do believe you'll be an asset to this board...

 

[zyzygy]

People manage to believe in many absurdities having nothing to do with religion. Let me tell you the one about the little green men and the UFO conspiracies, never mind, boring.

Animals tend to drink when thirsty, and approach water sources when they think predators won't be hanging around, or their own groups seem large enough to be protective. Many humans don't have enough common sense to drink when they're thirsty, as evidenced by all those who unnecessarily suffer from insufficient hydration.

Let me tell you the one about the magic sky daddy, it's a hoot!

 

[OldFatGuy]

Sky Daddy, Earth Mother Terra, sounds like doing a Tango at Rick's. Dancing for the stars.

 

[zyzygy]

Sky Daddy, Earth Mother Terra, sounds like doing a Tango at Rick's. Dancing for the stars.

I'm glad that you appreciate the absurdity of magic gods.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I also appreciate the comfort and structures religions provide for some people.

It's difficult to explain why those recovering from surgeries do better when they pray, and when others pray in their behalf.

While on a personal level we may not trust religions, and discount "silly stories" which many not be so silly when examined for meaning, the need to understand how they have effected mankind and still do, is of paramount value. Religions are intertwined with our cultural developments throughout history. How do we understand ourselves without understanding as best we can, all components of our cultural maturity without examining how religion has effected so much, intrinsically and with great inspiration? From daily living, to wars and love, and even lullabies.

 

[Angel]

No one will ever prove that God exists because he doesn't.

If anyone has proof to the contrary let's see it right now.

The clock is ticking.

:lol:

Mind is proof of God. Look to it.
Time is an illusion, so beware lest you overvalue that ticking you hear in your head.

 

[Angel]

I'm glad that you appreciate the absurdity of magic gods.

Absurdity is all around you, zyz. Open up to it.

 

[shrubnose]

Mind is proof of God. Look to it.
Time is an illusion, so beware lest you overvalue that ticking you hear in your head.

Believe whatever you want to believe.

Your incorrect ideas will have no effect on reality.