Are you proud of your country/state

[MC.no.spin]

Who wants to over-rule the 4th through the creation of bigger brother (warrantless wiretapping) as well as various other violations of the bill of rights?
Olbermann: 'Beginning of the end of America' - Countdown with Keith Olbermann - MSNBC.com

That again passed the Democratic Senate, and has enough votes in the Democratic House, so you're not really hitting it out of the park on that one. I'd call that a foul ball.

 

[disneydude]

Process of elimination. I really don't like liberals if you hadn't noticed.

I understand why you would take that position. Personally, sometimes I think that you can make a stronger message with a non-vote.

If I were a true conservative....I would not vote in hopes that the GOP got the message that you don't want another neo-con....or right-wing fanatic as your candidate.

I would love to see a return to the Goldwater, small government.....no right-wing "Christian" dominated GOP....that would be a GOP candidate that I could support...which in many ways was Romney.

In the last election the Dems nominated Kerry....I wasn't a fan of Kerry and I think I would not have voted had it not been for the fact that I knew that another 4 years of GWB would be a disaster.....and it has. If the GOP had run a different candidate...I probably would have stayed home and sent a message that I would prefer someone who is more in line with my views.

 

[Kandahar]

The government will never be in such hands. The Constitution is more important to conservatives than liberals.

Who wants to ban guns?

:lol:

That's funny. I could've sworn the Constitution included seven articles and 27 amendments, only one of which had anything at all to do with arms. When did we nullify the entire Constitution and replace it with a scrap of paper that just says "FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS"?

 

[jfuh]

Hey, wait a minute. Just because we don't have Mo Rivera in there closing this baby up yet doesn't mean we are losing. Mussina has gotten roughed up a little bit but he's still throwing hard stuff and is locating his pitches. The offense is scoring every inning and we are in control of the game. An expensive game, yes, but it will be rewarded with a democratic government and a safe Iraq in due time.

Ok, if we're to go down this analoygy.
We're already in the 200th inning without a single score on the board for the home team. Mussina is still there on the picther mound begging Joe to change him off. The owner switches Joe to Joe but insist that Mussina stays on the mound and insists on using the exact same strategy course.
We're not in control of the game by any means, we lost control of the game when the owners thought they could be winning in Kansas City and in Houston at the same time with the same team.
Had they done as all other companies do and just finish one game before starting another - allow their players to rest up and change the strategy when it seemed the one in play wasn't working on the fly, then we might be in control.
Right now if the owner wants to keep any dignity and keep their players from being slaughtered the best course of action would be to bow out.

 

[jfuh]

That again passed the Democratic Senate, and has enough votes in the Democratic House, so you're not really hitting it out of the park on that one. I'd call that a foul ball.

Actually I'd call a double play given the fact that the democratic senate and house did not come into effect until two and a half months later and was one of the reasons that the republicans lost congress and will also lose the white house come November. And that you don't know what you're hitting at.

The bill passed the Senate, 65–34, on September 28, 2006.[10]
The bill passed in the House, 250–170–12, on September 29, 2006.[11]
Bush signed the bill into law on October 17, 2006.

 

[MC.no.spin]

I understand why you would take that position. Personally, sometimes I think that you can make a stronger message with a non-vote.

If I were a true conservative....I would not vote in hopes that the GOP got the message that you don't want another neo-con....or right-wing fanatic as your candidate.

I would love to see a return to the Goldwater, small government.....no right-wing "Christian" dominated GOP....that would be a GOP candidate that I could support...which in many ways was Romney.

In the last election the Dems nominated Kerry....I wasn't a fan of Kerry and I think I would not have voted had it not been for the fact that I knew that another 4 years of GWB would be a disaster.....and it has. If the GOP had run a different candidate...I probably would have stayed home and sent a message that I would prefer someone who is more in line with my views.

Yes you make valid points, and in fact you're not alone in that view. I personally consider the next president vital for carrying through with the war on terror and spreading democracy, plus want strict constructionist judges nominated for the Supreme Court. I also don't want further taxation, nor socialized health care. I also expect a tougher stance on illegal immigration than would occur with a Democrat. I also think Global Warming is a hoax and the liberal agenda concerning it is penalizing American business in the economic world. God I wish Romney was running.

 

[MC.no.spin]

Actually I'd call a double play given the fact that the democratic senate and house did not come into effect until two and a half months later and was one of the reasons that the republicans lost congress and will also lose the white house come November. And that you don't know what you're hitting at.

Wire-tapping is the subject, yes? This just came out 3 hours ago:

During the Senate vote, 19 Democrats joined 48 Republicans and an independent to give blanket legal immunity to all telephone and Internet companies that may have collaborated with Bush administration wiretapping programs between September 11, 2001, and a January 2007 date on which the attorney general submitted a once-secret NSA program for court review. (It would also immunize telephone companies going forward and wipe out investigations by state utility commissions into any allegedly illegal practices.)

On the House side, while the majority of Democrats have showed inclinations toward rejecting the Senate bill because of opposition to the immunity section, there's a contingent of about 20 more conservative Democrats who support it.

Spy law battle may be settled this week | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

 

[MC.no.spin]

Ok, if we're to go down this analoygy.
We're already in the 200th inning without a single score on the board for the home team. Mussina is still there on the picther mound begging Joe to change him off. The owner switches Joe to Joe but insist that Mussina stays on the mound and insists on using the exact same strategy course.
We're not in control of the game by any means, we lost control of the game when the owners thought they could be winning in Kansas City and in Houston at the same time with the same team.
Had they done as all other companies do and just finish one game before starting another - allow their players to rest up and change the strategy when it seemed the one in play wasn't working on the fly, then we might be in control.
Right now if the owner wants to keep any dignity and keep their players from being slaughtered the best course of action would be to bow out.

We've been watching a different game! Change the channel! Your channel is being put on by the opposing team.

 

[jfuh]

Wire-tapping is the subject, yes? This just came out 3 hours ago:



Spy law battle may be settled this week | Tech news blog - CNET News.com

19 dems plus 48 repubs, I don't see how that exactly puts a point on the board for you, it's still the republican's that passed it wouldn't you say? Doesn't bode well for your assertion that liberals hate the constitution, in fact seems to suggest that conservative right wing republicans hate the constitution.

Not to mention that even by your own source

Under pressure to end an impasse over espionage legislation, House Democrats are considering a plan to vote on a bill next week that would give the government broad new eavesdropping authorities but strip out a provision that would protect phone companies from lawsuits.

Finally the fallacy you're making is that party affiliation equates to political ideology.

 

[jfuh]

We've been watching a different game! Change the channel! Your channel is being put on by the opposing team.

Sorry but if you've been paying attention to my avatar that's a Yankee there. I only watch YES

 

[John1234]

I personally consider the next president vital for carrying through with the war on terror and spreading democracy

Funny how Global Empire people associate the War on Terror with "Spreading Democracy" now days.
Which is it? Because they are hardly the same.

Why the hell would we want to "Spread Democracy"?
This mentality has led to multiple wars, and so much suffering. Not to mention what we could have been doing to help people instead.

For only a fraction of what it has cost our nation to "Spread Democracy", we could have solved world hunger.

 

[MC.no.spin]

19 dems plus 48 repubs, I don't see how that exactly puts a point on the board for you, it's still the republican's that passed it wouldn't you say? Doesn't bode well for your assertion that liberals hate the constitution, in fact seems to suggest that conservative right wing republicans hate the constitution.

Not to mention that even by your own source


Finally the fallacy you're making is that party affiliation equates to political ideology.

I didn't say liberals hate the constitution :roll: though I might have to use that another time. :rofl

We have the Supreme Court to keep each side playing fair.

I'm ready for a beer and a dog already.... Bring on the season! Yanks got some good young pitching this year.

 

[MC.no.spin]

Funny how Global Empire people associate the War on Terror with "Spreading Democracy" now days.
Which is it? Because they are hardly the same.

Why the hell would we want to "Spread Democracy"?
This mentality has led to multiple wars, and so much suffering. Not to mention what we could have been doing to help people instead.

For only a fraction of what it has cost our nation to "Spread Democracy", we could have solved world hunger.

As long as the broader Middle East remains a region of tyranny and despair and anger, it will produce extremists and movements that threaten the safety of Americans and our friends.

But there are hopeful signs that freedom is on the march. Afghanistan and Iraq are struggling to put dark and terrible pasts behind them and are choosing the path of progress.

Hang in there, brighter days are ahead. The success of freedom in Afghanistan and Iraq will give strength and hope to reformers throughout the region, and accelerate the pace of reforms already underway. From Morocco to Jordan to Bahrain, we are seeing elections and new protections for women and minorities, and the beginnings of political pluralism. Political, civil, and business leaders have issued stirring calls for political, economic and social change. Increasingly, the people are speaking, and their message is clear: the future of the region is to live in liberty.

 

[jfuh]

Funny how Global Empire people associate the War on Terror with "Spreading Democracy" now days.
Which is it? Because they are hardly the same.

Why the hell would we want to "Spread Democracy"?
This mentality has led to multiple wars, and so much suffering. Not to mention what we could have been doing to help people instead.

For only a fraction of what it has cost our nation to "Spread Democracy", we could have solved world hunger.

I actually would want the spread of democracy.
But democracy is an idea and like all ideas you can not kill it nor can you force it.
To spread democracy by force is actually very little variance from how Stalin wanted to spread communism by force in that it simply doesn't work and you create the exact opposite effect.
The only way to spread an ideology is to prove that it works to make people want it SO badly that they will put their own lives on the line to get it - it's how capitalism triumphed over communism and it's how democracy will triumph over tyranny and dictatorships - but we have to play it right. Fracking ourselves over trampling over our own ideals while hypocritically telling everyone else to do as I say not as I do simply won't work.

 

[jfuh]

I didn't say liberals hate the constitution :roll: though I might have to use that another time. :rofl

We have the Supreme Court to keep each side playing fair.

So what's your opinion on the white house giving the courts the finger when it says that it doesn't need a warrant (even that from a secret court) in order to wiretap anyone whom they themselves deem a terrorists? I think that's a little bit TOO much power.

I'm ready for a beer and a dog already.... Bring on the season! Yanks got some good young pitching this year.

I'll second that. Joba rules; Chen Ming Wang Specials keep em coming.

 

[John1234]

I actually would want the spread of democracy.
But democracy is an idea and like all ideas you can not kill it nor can you force it.
To spread democracy by force is actually very little variance from how Stalin wanted to spread communism by force in that it simply doesn't work and you create the exact opposite effect.
The only way to spread an ideology is to prove that it works to make people want it SO badly that they will put their own lives on the line to get it - it's how capitalism triumphed over communism and it's how democracy will triumph over tyranny and dictatorships - but we have to play it right. Fracking ourselves over trampling over our own ideals while hypocritically telling everyone else to do as I say not as I do simply won't work.

I agree with you.
Unfortunately though, when i hear the term "Spread Democracy" i associate it with bombs and millions of dead people.
And it makes me think of all the terrible things we did to countries like Chile and Iran during the cold war.

After years of hiding under my school desk to practice for the Russian Nuclear Attack with sirens whaling, I was amazed when i saw a picture of a real Russian.
He did not even have horns and he looked just like us.

Now i am afraid that its starting again. Except instead of the Russians being the 2 horned monsters that will stop at nothing to destroy us, its the Muslims.
And by doing this with an entire religion that encompasses half of the earth, it allows us to justify an endless campaign.

 

[jfuh]

I agree with you.
Unfortunately though, when i hear the term "Spread Democracy" i associate it with bombs and millions of dead people.
And it makes me think of all the terrible things we did to countries like Chile and Iran during the cold war.

A perfect example of the right idea, horrible execution of. Classic divisive politics based on buzz words, just like this thread, where the OP disgenuinely asks a question with the rally cry of certain individuals against others who he knows will answer oppositely and then he says you disloyal terrorist appeasing socialist traitors. Spread of democracy, sure no one would be against it, and here you are falling into this trap set up by the Roves to set you up as someone who is against a good ideology because of what said practice has now entailed in reality. It's incredibly sad. How have we allowed this to happen? That's the question I think we all should be asking.

After years of hiding under my school desk to practice for the Russian Nuclear Attack with sirens whaling, I was amazed when i saw a picture of a real Russian.
He did not even have horns and he looked just like us.

It's been a long time, I've completely forgotten about those drop and tuck practices that even at the time I thought were completely pointless and got in detention for exclaiming so.

Now i am afraid that its starting again. Except instead of the Russians being the 2 horned monsters that will stop at nothing to destroy us, its the Muslims.
And by doing this with an entire religion that encompasses half of the earth, it allows us to justify an endless campaign.

Seems like it, but also seems like a nation waking up to the reality of the matters; no one, not the conservatives, not the liberals not the moderates, not the independents, no one wants to see the status quo continue, no one wants to see stay the course. The only people that wish to see stay the course are those who do not care to understand reality or are so bent and blinded via partisan buzz words.

 

[John1234]

A perfect example of the right idea, horrible execution of. Classic divisive politics based on buzz words, just like this thread, where the OP disgenuinely asks a question with the rally cry of certain individuals against others who he knows will answer oppositely and then he says you disloyal terrorist appeasing socialist traitors. Spread of democracy, sure no one would be against it, and here you are falling into this trap set up by the Roves to set you up as someone who is against a good ideology because of what said practice has now entailed in reality. It's incredibly sad. How have we allowed this to happen? That's the question I think we all should be asking.

You get my "most intelligent post of he day" award.
Seriously...

 

[dixon76710]

Isn't really silly to be proud about anything other that your own personal accomplishments? Being proud of a circumstance you had no control over is really stupid.

Some of us believe we have contributed to what makes America great, just as others believe they have not.

 

[Thorgasm]

Some of us believe we have contributed to what makes America great, just as others believe they have not.

Being 1/300,000,000th of something is hardly worth being proud of.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Being 1/300,000,000th of something is hardly worth being proud of.

I disagree, being 1/300,000,000th of the greates country on this hear earth is plenty to be proud of. Our history, our culture, our heritage is all something we should look up to..


I for one am proud of this country, and its peoples.

 

[niftydrifty]

I disagree, being 1/300,000,000th of the greates country on this hear earth is plenty to be proud of. Our history, our culture, our heritage is all something we should look up to..

I for one am proud of this country, and its peoples.

I'm proud of what this country has accomplished. However, it's clear that the can-do spirit, and most of all, charm, is headed right down the shithole. What in your house wasn't made in China, of cheap plastic, or both?

In the fifties, you'd shop at a neighborhood mom and pop store and use products made by people just like you. corporatism and greed have pushed that all aside. indeed, youngsters everwhere think of "craft" as in the "world of war" variety, rather than something you can do with your hands in order to make a living and give to people something they'll enjoy.

greedy bastards have rendered it so that your prospects are most likely going to involve plugging into the grid.

do you like this?

forget it. because zoning and people-into-profit optimum ratio studies have determined that you're going to get this instead:

oh, and by the way. we don't need you to be creative. just run the franchise please, the way that district supervisor says to. he's the one that has the degree in soulless market profit dealie wealies, not you. what's that? you say you have a degree in corporate soulcrushery? you can realize your dreams! as long as they were ours first....

 

[Thorgasm]

I disagree, being 1/300,000,000th of the greates country on this hear earth is plenty to be proud of. Our history, our culture, our heritage is all something we should look up to..


I for one am proud of this country, and its peoples.

It's like being proud of snipping one blade of grass on your lawn and letting landscapers do the rest.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

It's like being proud of snipping one blade of grass on your lawn and letting landscapers do the rest.

Sad that you see it that way. I look at myself, my community, and those I ran to represent even as people I am proud of who are my fellow Americans. That for starters is being proud of a "lawn".....


Need I go on?

I'm proud of what this country has accomplished. However, it's clear that the can-do spirit, and most of all, charm, is headed right down the shithole. What in your house wasn't made in China, of cheap plastic, or both?

Most of my stuff is not made in china, sure cheap little junk things I have may be from chinese, but everything from the boots on my feet, to my Truck are made right here in the USA.


It's still there if you want it.

In the fifties, you'd shop at a neighborhood mom and pop store and use products made by people just like you. corporatism and greed have pushed that all aside. indeed, youngsters everwhere think of "craft" as in the "world of war" variety, rather than something you can do with your hands in order to make a living and give to people something they'll enjoy.

Really? All of it? My boots are made by an outfit in el paso, tx, my "outdoor living room" was crafted by an artisan in AZ, My grill is a lynx (usa), etc. etc...

greedy bastards have rendered it so that your prospects are most likely going to involve plugging into the grid.

do you like this?

[IMGx]http://leahy.senate.gov/images/2006Events/071906Elmore.jpg[/IMG]

forget it. because zoning and people-into-profit optimum ratio studies have determined that you're going to get this instead:

[IMGx]http://www.abovetherestpainting.com/images/stripmall1.jpg[/IMG]

oh, and by the way. we don't need you to be creative. just run the franchise please, the way that district supervisor says to. he's the one that has the degree in soulless market profit dealie wealies, not you. what's that? you say you have a degree in corporate soulcrushery? you can realize your dreams! as long as they were ours first....

Seems you lack the effort my friend, I don't do chains, I haven't eaten at one in over 5 years and I travel ALOT. I simply pull out my blackjack II, and windows live search and find some of the best down home cooking, non chain resturaunts, etc and have never looked back.

You going to a chain is your fault, not the chains.

 

[niftydrifty]

You going to a chain is your fault, not the chains.

sounds like you deny that they're there. that was my point. they are there. I can't help you with your tendency to assume things about me. I'm glad that you choose to support what you like, as do I. but once again, you and I are approximately 1/300,000,000th. my point is that the stuff is there. and it's growing. if you'd like to attempt to refute my point, you'll need to produce evidence that there aren't stripmalls, or that chains haven't made it tougher to run your own business, or that small communities haven't dried up as a result.

I'm happy for you, that you can remain proud as a result of ignoring all of this reality.

I hear it's bliss.