Are you busy October 18th? Please join me...

[hecatmoggie]

Pretty much in terms of Medicare. As I understand it premiums are not based on income so high end earners receive subsidies the same as low end. As for paying into it all your life. Give me a break.... what the average Joe pays into Medicare during their working years, if they even worked, is eaten up in a heartbeat given the exorbitant charges charged by your for profit health care industry. Any serious illness and your contribution is long gone.

Vets are a whole different issue. They should have government paid healthcare but I'm not so sure that having a totally independent tax payer subsidized infrastructure in place to serve them is necessary. The savings that could be realized by merging the three government run healthcare programs under one administration system would be significant. Your healthcare system is needlessly complicated and rampant with unnecessary processes and practices. When a doctor needs an entire staff of office workers just to manage insurances something is very wrong.

Seems to me tackling some of that would produce more results that continually beating up on ACA and Medicaid recipients who some feel should not get tax payer help even though they themselves enjoy it.

Obamcare doubled the employee's my friends have at their practices - its that much paperwork added

 

[Callen]

Obamcare doubled the employee's my friends have at their practices - its that much paperwork added

The point point is your system of multiple programs Medicaid, Medicare, the VA, the ACA and private insurance plus multiple insurance providers and all of them with different rules cause a huge amount of unnecessary bureaucracy. The ACA is just a part of it.

 

[ElChupacabra]

been that way for a while - yes

Right, and now the decision is between letting them expire or extending them. The MAGAGOP wants to let them expire with no solution for those who would lose healthcare.

I disagree - fraud is real, people on welfare that could/should work is real

Do you really not know ANYBODY taking advantage of a welfare situation ? be honest

I don't now, but used to growing up, and even back then the ratio leaned far more toward people who actually needed it versus those who didn't. The data on this is pretty clear, the problem is the narrative of lazy people not working is favored by some because it's an excuse not to address the actual problem. Again, guess work isn't necessary when one reviews the data on who is on benefits and how things played out in two states that implemented policies based on the premise you're making.

 

[gbg3]

As I understand it premiums are not based on income so high end earners receive subsidies the same as low end.

Well, you clearly don't understand it. Look up IRMAA and you might then understand it better.

 

[Callen]

Well, you clearly don't understand it. Look up IRMAA and you might then understand it better.

Thank you. I didn't realize that but yes there is small difference in premiums based on income but that small premium difference does not negate the fact that those higher income brackets are being highly subsidized through the tax system. Those premium rates are quite cheap. Nowhere near market value is my guess.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Right, and now the decision is between letting them expire or extending them. The MAGAGOP wants to let them expire with no solution for those who would lose healthcare.

the OBBB reinforced letting them expire that's correct, the Democrats have lost over and over on extending them

I don't now, but used to growing up, and even back then the ratio leaned far more toward people who actually needed it versus those who didn't. The data on this is pretty clear, the problem is the narrative of lazy people not working is favored by some because it's an excuse not to address the actual problem. Again, guess work isn't necessary when one reviews the data on who is on benefits and how things played out in two states that implemented policies based on the premise you're making.

well we know 1.4 million non-citizens were getting healthcare - that huge cost ends
we will know how many can work (who don't) when that all kicks in
we will know the impacts of subsidies ending soon enough too

and remember, NOBODY LOSES THEIR HEALTHCARE

They might not get it free anymore or subsidizes but they can still get all the healthcare they want, go buy it

 

[ElChupacabra]

the OBBB reinforced letting them expire that's correct, the Democrats have lost over and over on extending them

Incorrect. They are applying the little leverage they have now.

well we know 1.4 million non-citizens were getting healthcare - that huge cost ends

It does not, but instead goes back to the even more expensive model where it isn't the government hitting you up for more money, but the health insurance companies.

we will know how many can work (who don't) when that all kicks in
we will know the impacts of subsidies ending soon enough too

and remember, NOBODY LOSES THEIR HEALTHCARE

Without the subsidies many will not be able to afford the newly priced plans, which means they will lose their healthcare.

They might not get it free anymore or subsidizes but they can still get all the healthcare they want, go buy it

Those affected may not be able to afford it, so they'll resort to ER medicine, which is the most expensive way for all of us to manage this and no leverage on costs whatsoever.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Incorrect. They are applying the little leverage they have now.

ok when did Democrats win to get the extensions ? dates please

It does not, but instead goes back to the even more expensive model where it isn't the government hitting you up for more money, but the health insurance companies.

they're not going to get healthcare and as Trump decreases the numbers of illegals here, the costs go down, down down

1.4 Million Lawfully Present Immigrants are Expected to Lose Health Coverage due to the 2025 Tax and Budget Law | KFF

This policy watch outlines the groups of lawfully present immigrants that will lose access to federally funded health coverage due to the 2025 tax and budget law and the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO’s) estimates of the increases in the number of uninsured and federal savings and revenue...

www.kff.org

Without the subsidies many will not be able to afford the newly priced plans, which means they will lose their healthcare.

I know that can happen OR they can choose to work more, or get higher paying jobs etc and I'm including my family in this too.

Those affected may not be able to afford it, so they'll resort to ER medicine,

you're right, that needs addressed absolutely

which is the most expensive way for all of us to manage this and no leverage on costs whatsoever.

you're right, that needs addressed absolutely


the millions sucking off taxpayer subsidies is a problem - extending the subsidies is NOT the solution, the problem is STILL there, isn't it ?

 

[ElChupacabra]

ok when did Democrats win to get the extensions ? dates please

They have not been able to because of MAGAGOP opposition. Now we've reached the end of the road.

they're not going to get healthcare and as Trump decreases the numbers of illegals here, the costs go down, down down

1.4 Million Lawfully Present Immigrants are Expected to Lose Health Coverage due to the 2025 Tax and Budget Law | KFF

This policy watch outlines the groups of lawfully present immigrants that will lose access to federally funded health coverage due to the 2025 tax and budget law and the Congressional Budget Office’s (CBO’s) estimates of the increases in the number of uninsured and federal savings and revenue...

www.kff.org

Except the people you're referring to aren't illegals.

I know that can happen OR they can choose to work more, or get higher paying jobs etc and I'm including my family in this too.


you're right, that needs addressed absolutely


you're right, that needs addressed absolutely


the millions sucking off taxpayer subsidies is a problem - extending the subsidies is NOT the solution, the problem is STILL there, isn't it ?

This is pablum, sorry. If this were the solution to wealth, then everyone would be swimming in it. I'll entertain this silly notion with just one simple question: in your model of everyone getting better paying jobs, who will do the low paying jobs that fuel the service economy?

 

[tharock220]

Don’t feel bad because you don’t have the skills to not have to work seven days a week.

That’s on you!

That's awfully terse sentence for someone who doesn't appear capable of basic comprehension.

 

[Cassandra]

ok when did Democrats win to get the extensions ? dates please


they're not going to get healthcare and as Trump decreases the numbers of illegals here, the costs go down, down down

I know that can happen OR they can choose to work more, or get higher paying jobs etc and I'm including my family in this too.



the millions sucking off taxpayer subsidies is a problem - extending the subsidies is NOT the solution, the problem is STILL there, isn't it ?

I don't have children in public school. Why should I pay hundreds every month in property taxes to support other people's children? The administration wishes to further reduce taxes on people with large families. Why should I subsidize people who have many children?

The government does not tax "carried interest" as income. Why should I subsidize billionaire investors?

The federal govt subsidizes home owners insurance for lots of people who own homes in areas that private insurers will no longer touch? Why should I subsidize other people's homes?

Gov't provides roads and utilities for people who live on cul-de-sac streets- used only by them. Why should my tax dollars be used that way?

Private schools and religious institutions receive huge tax breaks. Why must I subsidize them through my tax dollars?

Frankly, government is in the business of shifting tax dollars around. The only difference seems to be which party thinks which constituency is more in need. The current administration thinks wealthy people and churches are most in need.

 

[hecatmoggie]

They have not been able to because of MAGAGOP opposition. Now we've reached the end of the road.

that's right - they've failed over and over

Except the people you're referring to aren't illegals.

1.4 million are yes

This is pablum, sorry. If this were the solution to wealth, then everyone would be swimming in it. I'll entertain this silly notion with just one simple question: in your model of everyone getting better paying jobs, who will do the low paying jobs that fuel the service economy?

can we agree the core problem of health care is the massive cost of it ? its really not that people are making $15 an hour, right ?

but to answer your question - and I'll use a family member who is 26 and making $14 an hour, 35 hours a week with no benefits ... she vapes, smokes marijuana and/or eats gummies daily ..... do we need to subsidize her? Why? She's exactly where she wants to be ..... I mean she is and isn't. She'd like to have a lot of money, she simply doesn't want to do what it takes to get there.

is it my tax burden to pay all my healthcare AND subsidize hers?

but the core problem is really the massive cost of healthcare isn't it ? way more than it is her making $14 an hour ? is she found herself in a medical emergency .. she'd be up a creek hard, no doubt. Who's responsibility is it to be prepared? To make good choices and decisions in case that happens ?

I understand her side - I really do .... she doesn't WANT to do anything more than work 35 hours a week for low wages, smoke her pot and watch tv and be low income happy. That's fine. But its not my burden or yours or taxpayers to subsidize her is it ?

 

[hecatmoggie]

I don't have children in public school. Why should I pay hundreds every month in property taxes to support other people's children?

that's a property tax/millage thing and you have a point, I don't disagree

The administration wishes to further reduce taxes on people with large families. Why should I subsidize people who have many children?

reducing taxes isn't subsidizing

The government does not tax "carried interest" as income. Why should I subsidize billionaire investors?

not subsidizing

The federal govt subsidizes home owners insurance for lots of people who own homes in areas that private insurers will no longer touch? Why should I subsidize other people's homes?

I agree, why ?

Gov't provides roads and utilities for people who live on cul-de-sac streets- used only by them. Why should my tax dollars be used that way?

not subsidizing

Private schools and religious institutions receive huge tax breaks. Why must I subsidize them through my tax dollars?

not subsidizing

Frankly, government is in the business of shifting tax dollars around. The only difference seems to be which party thinks which constituency is more in need. The current administration thinks wealthy people and churches are most in need.

then shift me some Govt subsidies so I can buy a bass boat and nice 4x4 truck please - why can't I get free ?

 

[CimpleMan]

that's right - they've failed over and over


1.4 million are yes



can we agree the core problem of health care is the massive cost of it ? its really not that people are making $15 an hour, right ?

but to answer your question - and I'll use a family member who is 26 and making $14 an hour, 35 hours a week with no benefits ... she vapes, smokes marijuana and/or eats gummies daily ..... do we need to subsidize her? Why? She's exactly where she wants to be ..... I mean she is and isn't. She'd like to have a lot of money, she simply doesn't want to do what it takes to get there.

is it my tax burden to pay all my healthcare AND subsidize hers?

but the core problem is really the massive cost of healthcare isn't it ? way more than it is her making $14 an hour ? is she found herself in a medical emergency .. she'd be up a creek hard, no doubt. Who's responsibility is it to be prepared? To make good choices and decisions in case that happens ?

I understand her side - I really do .... she doesn't WANT to do anything more than work 35 hours a week for low wages, smoke her pot and watch tv and be low income happy. That's fine. But its not my burden or yours or taxpayers to subsidize her is it ?

You don't penalize everyone in need just because there's examples of someone not as motivated as others. There's no perfect system to separate those who are truly in need and those who milk the system to some extent. Just the reality of things.

Plenty of grift happening with higher income people through tax evasion and scams.

 

[hecatmoggie]

You don't penalize everyone in need just because there's examples of someone not as motivated as others.

all those in need will still get help = the abusers of the system is being targeted now

There's no perfect system to separate those who are truly in need and those who milk the system to some extent. Just the reality of things.

the system is abused - no WAY should 1.4 million non-citizens be getting free healthcare

Plenty of grift happening with higher income people through tax evasion and scams.

There are over 1,100 billionaires in the U.S., with recent estimates from September 2025 placing the number at 1,135. Their combined net worth is approximately $5.7 trillion
In 2023, the United States spent approximately $4.9 trillion on healthcare


In 2026 take 100% of the Billionaires money ... and you've paid 1 year of healthcare


Now, in 2027 ... what are you going to do ?

 

[CimpleMan]

all those in need will still get help = the abusers of the system is being targeted now



the system is abused - no WAY should 1.4 million non-citizens be getting free healthcare



There are over 1,100 billionaires in the U.S., with recent estimates from September 2025 placing the number at 1,135. Their combined net worth is approximately $5.7 trillion
In 2023, the United States spent approximately $4.9 trillion on healthcare


In 2026 take 100% of the Billionaires money ... and you've paid 1 year of healthcare


Now, in 2027 ... what are you going to do ?

You're upset about someone getting more benefits than YOU think they should.

I'm upset tax cheats in 2022 avoided $606 billion in taxes.

Life's not fair, would rather someone get some extra benefits then allow tax cheats to avoid tax liabilities. But, that's just me.

 

[hecatmoggie]

You're upset about someone getting more benefits than YOU think they should.

not benefits - free stuff, subsidies etc .... if they earned what they were getting that's a benefit

giving free stuff is what Democrats do to buy votes IMO

I'm upset tax cheats in 2022 avoided $606 billion in taxes.

people less than $50,000 a year paid in hardly any income taxes - I bet that REALLY chaps you

Life's not fair, would rather someone get some extra benefits then allow tax cheats to avoid tax liabilities. But, that's just me.

and now, GOP is making changes where people needing help will get it, cheats hopefully will be found out, people who can work some will and still get benefits ..... and hopefully it'll save working Americans $$$$$$$$$$$

but you're right, life isn't fair ... its not fair 1.4 million got healthcare or other countries getting billions ... GOP is changing that

 

[CimpleMan]

not benefits - free stuff, subsidies etc .... if they earned what they were getting that's a benefit

giving free stuff is what Democrats do to buy votes IMO


people less than $50,000 a year paid in hardly any income taxes - I bet that REALLY chaps you



and now, GOP is making changes where people needing help will get it, cheats hopefully will be found out, people who can work some will and still get benefits ..... and hopefully it'll save working Americans $$$$$$$$$$$

but you're right, life isn't fair ... its not fair 1.4 million got healthcare or other countries getting billions ... GOP is changing that

Makes no sense for people using all of their income for living expenses to pay income taxes along with OTHER TAXES they pay.

Only 53% of businesses offer healthcare benefits. Subsidies of all kinds are needed just not for healthcare. You guys don't want to deal with realty of the situation of people living paycheck to paycheck.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Makes no sense for people using all of their income for living expenses to pay income taxes along with OTHER TAXES they pay.

but you think it makes sense for people who are successful to pay for the bulk of all income taxes ?

Only 53% of businesses offer healthcare benefits.

its not easy to run a business but you got me googling

In the US, about 54% of all private firms offered health benefits in 2024, though this varies significantly by company size. Large firms are much more likely to offer insurance (98%), while only about 53% of small firms do. While this data reflects the percentage of firms that offer insurance, a higher percentage of private-sector employees (about 86% based on 2020-2022 data) worked for firms that provided health insurance, as larger firms are more likely to offer it.

By business size

• Large businesses: Approximately 98% of firms with 200 or more workers offer health benefits.
• Small businesses: Roughly 53% of firms with fewer than 200 workers offer health benefits.

Approximately 60% of working-age people in the U.S. were covered by employer-sponsored health insurance in 2023. This represents about 164.7 million individuals.
Looking specifically at workers:

• As of March 2023, about three in four workers (75.3%) were eligible to enroll in the health insurance offered at their job.
• Of those eligible workers, 74.4% were policyholders through their own job (meaning they "took up" the coverage offer).
• Overall, for all workers across all firms (including those not offered coverage), approximately 54% are covered by health plans offered by their employer.

This coverage is the primary source of health insurance in the United States for the non-elderly population. The rate of coverage can vary significantly based on factors such as income, firm size, and whether the worker is full-time or part-time.

Subsidies of all kinds are needed just not for healthcare. You guys don't want to deal with realty of the situation of people living paycheck to paycheck.

why don't I have to worry about living paycheck to paycheck? I was born into generational poverty .... why am I not poor right now living paycheck ? do you know ?

 

[Cassandra]

that's a property tax/millage thing and you have a point, I don't disagree


reducing taxes isn't subsidizing


not subsidizing

I agree, why ?

not subsidizing


not subsidizing



then shift me some Govt subsidies so I can buy a bass boat and nice 4x4 truck please - why can't I get free ?

Of course, they are subsidies. All of them.


Furthermore, EVERYONE who is healthy and buying health insurance is subsidizing people who are less lucky in health. That is how health insurance works.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Of course, they are subsidies. All of them.


Furthermore, EVERYONE who is healthy and buying health insurance is subsidizing people who are less lucky in health. That is how health insurance works.

but the lower waged people buying healthcare using subsidies aren't paying nearly into the system that people working full time and good wages do

you are wanting higher wages people to pay their healthy care AND the bulk of other people's healhcare too

do we do that with car insurance? home owners insurance? pet insurance? phone insurance? renters insurance ?? why ?

 

[Cassandra]

but the lower waged people buying healthcare using subsidies aren't paying nearly into the system that people working full time and good wages do

you are wanting higher wages people to pay their healthy care AND the bulk of other people's healhcare too

do we do that with car insurance? home owners insurance? pet insurance? phone insurance? renters insurance ?? why ?

Well, you just made the claim that religious institutions and wealthy investors who pay less in taxes (because they are exempted or don't pay income tax rates) are not subsidies -even though this shifts expenses to others. Which is it?

As I stated previously- yes, we do shift costs with home owners insurance. Your tax dollars and mine subsidize the insurance for many, many homes that are uninsurable.

 

[hecatmoggie]

Well, you just made the claim that religious institutions and wealthy investors who pay less in taxes (because they are exempted or don't pay income tax rates) are not subsidies -even though this shifts expenses to others. Which is it?

churches pay nothing in the money they bring in, right ?

wealthy people pay the bulk of income taxes, don't they ?

As I stated previously- yes, we do shift costs with home owners insurance. Your tax dollars and mine subsidize the insurance for many, many homes that are uninsurable.

I believe I said I was in agreement with you that they shouldn't

I pay full insurance on my 2 houses ... why do I have to pay taxes and that money used so other people can pay insurance on theirs?

What about auto insurance? Boat insurance? Pet insurance? Property insurance ? why are all those not Fed Govt subsidized ?

 

[Cassandra]

churches pay nothing in the money they bring in, right ?

And so, you are okay subsidizing churches?

Not counting the income tax exemption:
"Good estimates of the cost of the exemption for nonprofits are hard to come by, but one 2006 study found that exempt property typically represented between 3 and 4 percent of total property value in most cities, but much more in select cities like Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore, and New York City".

wealthy people pay the bulk of income taxes, don't they ?

Irrelevant. Why should an investor pay a 15% tax rate and a mid income earner pay 20 or 25%?

I believe I said I was in agreement with you that they shouldn't

I pay full insurance on my 2 houses ... why do I have to pay taxes and that money used so other people can pay insurance on theirs?

I dont understand that sentence but I guess(?) you now realize that govt funds subsidize lots of types of insurance? Home owners, farmers..

I don't
What about auto insurance? Boat insurance? Pet insurance? Property insurance ? why are all those not Fed Govt subsidized ?

Auto? I have no idea. Boats ? Working vessels w insurance may be subsidized- I have no idea.

 

[BirdinHand]

1.4 million non-citizens were getting healthcare

So, now you are opposed to greencard holders and lawful immigrants having healthcare?

Any reason why?