Are we kidding ourselves with these new vaccines?

[JacksinPA]

The virus that causes COVID-19 belong to the coronavirus family. We've known that members of this family can cause disease like the 2003 SARS pandemic . If you want to readabout why it took us 17 years to come up with vaccines, see

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html

everymember of this virus family has a part called nsp1. This is an enzyme that seeks out our ribosomes & bonds to them in such a way that human protein manufacture, including antibodies active against the virus, is blocked while the manufacture of viral proteins is enabled.

The new vaccines make the S or spike protein, which signal our immune systems to make antibodies specific for it. Some of these vaccines require 2 shots spaced 27 days apart,, before you attain 'full' immunity.

So what happens if you get infected only partway into the 54 days? The virus will multiply & make huge numbers of nsp1, which shut off your body's ability to make the vaccine-inspired antibodies. IOW, you've got COVID-19 despite having been vaccinated.

 

[Emily L]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

 

[JacksinPA]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

hi Emily

Thanks for the comment.

The really tragic part about this is that we could have had this vaccineoff the shelf' 10 or 15 years ago instead of waitng for Government approval today. Hundreds of thousands of lives could have been saved if we had developed a 'kit' of coronavirus vaccines a decade ago.

I've studied the coronavirus family & they (SARS, MERS, COVID-19) are pretty similar in both structure & function. The fact that the greedy pharma companies are just now getting around to developing them for $$$ is criminal. And meanwhile Trump is putting incomptents incharge while he sidelined the experts. Trump is a mass murderer.

 

[Acadia]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

Are your referencing thalidomide?
That was an antiemetic, not a vaccine.
Maybe the swine flu vaccine and Guillain-Barre?

 

[JacksinPA]

Are your referencing thalidomide?
That was an antiemetic, not a vaccine.
Maybe the swine flu vaccine and Guillain-Barre?

In 1955 early polio vacine did a lot of human damage.

 

[Acadia]

In 1955 early polio vacine did a lot of human damage.

A lot remains unknown but what we do know is 10-15% will get a miserable 1-2 days after the vaccine, with injection-site pain, fever and headache.
I truly hope that's all we see when the number of recipients goes up by orders of magnitude.

 

[Helix]

Are we kidding ourselves with these new vaccines

if anyone really thinks so, short a company that makes the vaccine. i don't see that happening.

as for me, i'm getting the shot as soon as possible. i am very tired of this bullshit.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

The new mRNA vaccines use an experimental technology that has never been used on healthy humans before. There is no way to predict what the long term effects could be.

Messenger RNA (mRNA) is genetically engineered and injected, and enters your cells. It causes the cells to create the spike proteins, which will cause the immune system to produce the antigens.

With previous vaccines, the antigen is injected, but they found it's cheaper and faster to make mRNA vaccines, where the antigens are manufactured by the cells.

RNA and DNA vaccines are the future, supposedly. They modify processes at the foundation of life, within cells. Yes, scientists study cellular biology and know a lot about it. But what they DON'T knows still remains infinite. As with subatomic physics, the complexity becomes more baffling the deeper you go.

DNA and RNA are templates for creating the chains of nucleotides that make up proteins, and proteins are essential to all life functions. Proteins are not simply chains of nucleotides though -- their function depends on their 3-dimensional shape. After RNA instructs the ribosomes to create the chain, it has to fold into the correct 3-shape for that protein. How this happens exactly is not well understood. There is nothing in the DNA, or the RNA, that specifies the 3-dimensional protein shape. There are helpers in the cells that help with the the folding process.

When protein folding goes wrong, it can be a cause of disease.

One, of many, things I wonder is -- how will our cells know how to fold the spike proteins? Will the folding often go wrong and cause disease? Alzheimer's disease, for example, is thought to be caused by protein misfolding.

 

[Acadia]

The new mRNA vaccines use an experimental technology that has never been used on healthy humans before. There is no way to predict what the long term effects could be.

Messenger RNA (mRNA) is genetically engineered and injected, and enters your cells. It causes the cells to create the spike proteins, which will cause the immune system to produce the antigens.

With previous vaccines, the antigen is injected, but they found it's cheaper and faster to make mRNA vaccines, where the antigens are manufactured by the cells.

RNA and DNA vaccines are the future, supposedly. They modify processes at the foundation of life, within cells. Yes, scientists study cellular biology and know a lot about it. But what they DON'T knows still remains infinite. As with subatomic physics, the complexity becomes more baffling the deeper you go.

DNA and RNA are templates for creating the chains of nucleotides that make up proteins, and proteins are essential to all life functions. Proteins are not simply chains of nucleotides though -- their function depends on their 3-dimensional shape. After RNA instructs the ribosomes to create the chain, it has to fold into the correct 3-shape for that protein. How this happens exactly is not well understood. There is nothing in the DNA, or the RNA, that specifies the 3-dimensional protein shape. There are helpers in the cells that help with the the folding process.

When protein folding goes wrong, it can be a cause of disease.

One, of many, things I wonder is -- how will our cells know how to fold the spike proteins? Will the folding often go wrong and cause disease? Alzheimer's disease, for example, is thought to be caused by protein misfolding.

Very informative. Didn't know about the protein folding. I wonder how long it would take to being to see dysfunction.
I'm usually pro vax and take them, but this one's got me hesitating.

 

[ecofarm]

2 shots 27 days apart = 54 days?

No vaccine is instantaneous.

 

[Roadvirus]

2 shots 27 days apart = 54 days?

No vaccine is instantaneous.

It's a Nazi conspiracy!

 

[ecofarm]

It's a Nazi conspiracy!

Your avatar and that post go together swell.

 

[lwf]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

Thalidomide. While such a terrible tragedy is highly unlikely with a coronavirus vaccine, once can understand the fear of a rushed vaccine. For what it's worth, medical knowledge has advanced exponentially since the thalidomide tragedy almost 70 years ago, and the reason the COVID-19 vaccines came so quick is because they are not that much different from other similar viral vaccines.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Very informative. Didn't know about the protein folding. I wonder how long it would take to being to see dysfunction.
I'm usually pro vax and take them, but this one's got me hesitating.

it can be quick. mad cow disease is an example of a misfolded protein causing issues.

 

[JacksinPA]

it can be quick. mad cow disease is an example of a misfolded protein causing issues.

Sickle cell anemia is another example. The mutation arose in tropical environments because it conferred partial resistance to malaria. Not such a great idea when living in an environment without malaria.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

Thalidomide was NOT a VACCINE, it was a sedative.
God's sakes, this is pure mumbo jumbo.

 

[Emily L]

Are your referencing thalidomide?
That was an antiemetic, not a vaccine.
Maybe the swine flu vaccine and Guillain-Barre?

Acadia, my ignorance is really shining through here. Thank you VERY much for correcting me on that. It was, indeed, thalidomide. Like you said, it wasn't a vaccine, so I was way off the mark for bringing it up. Thanks again.

 

[bongsaway]

Jacksin, I'll tell you something else that kind of worries me. I can't remember the name of the disease. but I have read about a vaccine that was administered decades ago without it being fully tested over a reasonable time. The result was that many pregnant women had deformed babies (e.g., no arms, etc.). This is not an urban legend, but absolutely true. The babies were called "---ide Babies" after the name of the vaccine, I think. I know we need this COVID vaccine as soon as possible, but I still worry that we might be rushing things a bit. I really wish some of the medical pundits on TV would assure me that there's no danger of that happening this time.

This is a phonetic attempt at the word. It was thalidomide.



Thalidomide is a sedative drug discovered at the end of the 50s, which caused a worldwide tragedy. The drug has been prescribed to many pregnant women in order to relieve pregnancy nausea.

 

[Emily L]

The new mRNA vaccines use an experimental technology that has never been used on healthy humans before. There is no way to predict what the long term effects could be.

Messenger RNA (mRNA) is genetically engineered and injected, and enters your cells. It causes the cells to create the spike proteins, which will cause the immune system to produce the antigens.

With previous vaccines, the antigen is injected, but they found it's cheaper and faster to make mRNA vaccines, where the antigens are manufactured by the cells.

RNA and DNA vaccines are the future, supposedly. They modify processes at the foundation of life, within cells. Yes, scientists study cellular biology and know a lot about it. But what they DON'T knows still remains infinite. As with subatomic physics, the complexity becomes more baffling the deeper you go.

DNA and RNA are templates for creating the chains of nucleotides that make up proteins, and proteins are essential to all life functions. Proteins are not simply chains of nucleotides though -- their function depends on their 3-dimensional shape. After RNA instructs the ribosomes to create the chain, it has to fold into the correct 3-shape for that protein. How this happens exactly is not well understood. There is nothing in the DNA, or the RNA, that specifies the 3-dimensional protein shape. There are helpers in the cells that help with the the folding process.

When protein folding goes wrong, it can be a cause of disease.

One, of many, things I wonder is -- how will our cells know how to fold the spike proteins? Will the folding often go wrong and cause disease? Alzheimer's disease, for example, is thought to be caused by protein misfolding.

Thanks for explaining all that to me, Good4. You really know your stuff.

 

[Emily L]

Thalidomide. While such a terrible tragedy is highly unlikely with a coronavirus vaccine, once can understand the fear of a rushed vaccine. For what it's worth, medical knowledge has advanced exponentially since the thalidomide tragedy almost 70 years ago, and the reason the COVID-19 vaccines came so quick is because they are not that much different from other similar viral vaccines.

Thanks, lwf. I didn't realize it happened that long ago. What you said about medical advancements since then is very reassuring. Thanks for that.

 

[Emily L]

Thalidomide was NOT a VACCINE, it was a sedative.
God's sakes, this is pure mumbo jumbo.

I didn't know, Checker, and I apologize for mentioning it without knowing for sure.

 

[Emily L]

This is a phonetic attempt at the word. It was thalidomide.

View attachment 67307873
Thalidomide is a sedative drug discovered at the end of the 50s, which caused a worldwide tragedy. The drug has been prescribed to many pregnant women in order to relieve pregnancy nausea.

Thanks, Bong. I really messed up in bringing it up because I thought it was a vaccine. I suppose it could still be used as an example of a medical thing that wasn't thoroughly tested, but I wish I had come up with a better example--or at least researched it before bringing it up. Thanks again, Bong.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The virus that causes COVID-19 belong to the coronavirus family. We've known that members of this family can cause disease like the 2003 SARS pandemic . If you want to readabout why it took us 17 years to come up with vaccines, see

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html

everymember of this virus family has a part called nsp1. This is an enzyme that seeks out our ribosomes & bonds to them in such a way that human protein manufacture, including antibodies active against the virus, is blocked while the manufacture of viral proteins is enabled.

The new vaccines make the S or spike protein, which signal our immune systems to make antibodies specific for it. Some of these vaccines require 2 shots spaced 27 days apart,, before you attain 'full' immunity.

So what happens if you get infected only partway into the 54 days? The virus will multiply & make huge numbers of nsp1, which shut off your body's ability to make the vaccine-inspired antibodies. IOW, you've got COVID-19 despite having been vaccinated.

The efficacy tests conducted thus far do seem promising, but there's a lot we don't know, so the vaccines can either be very good or a produce a mixed bag of results. What I hope doesn't happen is people will assume because there are vaccines that suddenly means the pandemic is over; there's no light switch transition out of this.

 

[bongsaway]

Thanks, Bong. I really messed up in bringing it up because I thought it was a vaccine. I suppose it could still be used as an example of a medical thing that wasn't thoroughly tested, but I wish I had come up with a better example--or at least researched it before bringing it up. Thanks again, Bong.

No biggie, we got the point. You are welcome.

 

[Slavister]

So what happens if you get infected only partway into the 54 days? The virus will multiply & make huge numbers of nsp1, which shut off your body's ability to make the vaccine-inspired antibodies. IOW, you've got COVID-19 despite having been vaccinated.

How does that square with 94%-95% reported effectiveness of Pfizer / Moderna vaccines?