Are we as a nation getting much more INTOLERANT of others politically?

[Thrilla]

LOL but all your examples are from the right. Pardon me Vern, but cut the bull.

Black Lives Matter. Social Justice Warriors. Examine what they believe and how they go about spreading what they believe and what they do when they don't get what they want.

The left has plenty to worry about before they can throw stones without breaking glass in their own house.

don't bother... he drank enough koolaid to kill a village.

 

[Militant_Vegan_]

judging by the people and mods on this forum, i would say yes.

 

[Thrilla]

judging by the people and mods on this forum, i would say yes.

I hope you're not going to pretend to be the tolerant sort now.... we've seen your threads.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

OC, you cowardly cut and run from a similar discussion. I showed you 40-60% of conservatives believe some of the most ridiculous lies spewed from the right. You just don't get to wave your hands at 40% of conservatives believing asinine, ridiculous and probably racist conservative narratives. And OC, if my rhetoric was so pathetic, you would be able to shred it instead of whining at it. See the problem. I didn't whine at this pathetic rhetoric. I shredded it.

You are definitely showing your stripes here Vern.

First, it is definitely both sides, and while I agree with you its probably more on one side than the other, I disagree with you from which side that is.

Besides, your polls are silly. One, the link about death panels is rather stale, from before last election. Two, from that article you linked,

"The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down Syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's 'death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment ... whether they are worthy of healthcare," Palin wrote during debate on the bill.

Those provisions were eventually scrapped after a public outcry. " ...and then,

"In a Facebook post, she referred to the healthcare law's Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB) as a "panel of faceless bureaucrats who have the power to make life and death decisions about healthcare funding."

The IPAB, widely opposed by Republicans, is a group of healthcare experts tasked with cutting Medicare payments to doctors if the program's spending grows too quickly.

The board's "purpose all along has been to 'keep costs down' by actually denying care via price controls and typically inefficient bureaucracy," Palin wrote in June."

Anything, at the time, untrue about all that? If costs are getting too high and you cut Medicare payments to doctors, you don't think that can lead to the death of a patient?

Next, what do you think the percentages would be if we on this side did constant polls about the silly beliefs of the left? For instance, how many liberals/progressive/Democrats would believe that Clinton was impeached for having an affair? I would say in the high 80s% if not higher. Or how many believe to this day Rachel Carson was right, DDT was sooooo bad, all of which has resulted in the world pretty much banning it and millions have died of Malaria since. Or the Alar scare, or the Acid Rain scare, Global cooling then Global Warming and now, oooOOOOooooooh, Climate Change, like climate changing is something suddenly new. Stupidities beyond compare.

I worked in the belly of the beast, 17 years in public high schools. I can testify as to the intolerance, as Republican Club then Conservative Club sponsor, that I personally received. I would sometimes wear my club sponsor shirt and say good morning to folks and they physically would turn their head the other way, flat out ignore me and my greetings. And any civil discussions I attempted would quickly devolve on their side as snarling, almost vicious attacks, usually with the name calling, fascist was the one most bandied about generally. I could count on one hand with three missing fingers who I could actually have a decent civil discussion with from the other side... who didn't just out and out despise me afterwards. If I disagreed, its like I had trampled on their religion or something. How dare I say such a thing, how stupid could I be...

Yeah, you may not think your side is intolerant, but I am here to tell ya...

 

[Mr Person]

LOL but all your examples are from the right.

LOL but you would expect precisely that to be the case if his position that narratives from the left are not as absurd as the narratives from the right, which he identified, was correct.

He did ask you to identify even just one "narrative from the left that comes close to the level of absurdity of one of the examples."





And as a general matter, "both sides do it" has got to be the least helpful statement in the history of debating. It's a mixture of "two wrongs make a right", "but he started it!" and "shut up." It's also rarely true that both sides are doing exactly the same thing.

 

[Vern]

You are definitely showing your stripes here Vern.

First, it is definitely both sides, and while I agree with you its probably more on one side than the other, I disagree with you from which side that is.

then make a case that dems do it more. flailing at my posts is not making a case. And you are hilariously trying to make the case that the death panel lie was not a lie. And that's the poll you call stale. So you keep telling me what you want to believe. I've proven my point that conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do.

And then rambling on about climate change only makes it funnier. don't use my posts for you to ramble on about the things you want to believe. make point back it up. Its what I did.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

then make a case that dems do it more. flailing at my posts is not making a case. And you are hilariously trying to make the case that the death panel lie was not a lie. And that's the poll you call stale. So you keep telling me what you want to believe. I've proven my point that conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do.

And then rambling on about climate change only makes it funnier. don't use my posts for you to ramble on about the things you want to believe. make point back it up. Its what I did.

Sorry, most of us on this side work, or have better things to do with our time. Conservatives don't generally have time to think up stupid stuff to have polls on, we already know the other side is quite bonkers, they confirm it every day. These polls, I can tell, really deeply mean something profound to you, don't they? I can tolerate such silliness, I just ignore it.

Speaking of which, you know... We used to tolerate all y'all. Then we came to understand that y'all take that nice tolerance as weakness. Then started taking things way way way too far and now, dang, we just cannot be tolerant of such sillinesses that threaten our country, yano?

Oh, and yeah, I thought the exact same about you and death panels, hilarious. Especially using your own article to hoist you on your own petard. And what were some of the others? Sillinesses without doubt.

Oh, regarding you making a point and backing it up... on such silliness? Why waste any more time of this pile of...cotton candy minus the substance. Capiche'? Ciao.

 

[cpwill]

It seems with this election we are close to being like the 1830's and 1840's politically.

I am 60 years old and have seen a lot. What I am seeing now is a deep seated anger boiling over from the RIGHT, and a " how dare you say that " anger from the LEFT.

As a kid, my first dealings with political bullcrap was during the Johnson / Goldwater run. I was told by Johnson supporters, kids like myself, if Goldwater was elected we would have to go to school on Saturdays.

I also remember something else. During the televised Democratic Convention in Chicago, someone from outside threw a chair in the hall and was immediately wrestled to the ground and hauled away. That was pretty much it...INSIDE the hall. Outside it was pure bedlam. The 60's had a ton of divisive issues and troubles. Even so one thing remained untouchable. The democratic process.

NOW,...for the very first time in my lifetime, some jerkwads of an opposing party completely halted a rally for a candidate they did not like.

NOW,...those same jerkwads are talking about a march from Philly to DC to disrupt the process of people voting their choice. It is 100% against the Republican frontrunner, but if you see nothing wrong with a bunch of goons and thugs disrupting the democratic process as they did in Chicago, and are planning to do soon, then I can see there being nothing but blood spilled in our future.

They flew the hammer & sickle flag during their riot in Chicago. That tells me they are complete enemies of the very process they are saying they are attempting to preserve. They are not.

The fact this INTOLERANCE is TOLERATED sets a bad precedence for our mutual future here in the USA.

Regardless of which side you are on, I feel there is more and more anger boiling over the lid on any given subject.

Ben Carson was the only candidate that drew attention to it. He said if you look at any comments section on any web page you can see about only half-way down where the insults start flying and the hate starts bubbling up.

YES, I AM pointing a finger at MOVEON.COM because they are 100 % responsible for what they do, did, and are planning to do.

They are not the issue, though and the reason for this thread. It is the deep anger I feel almost all people on the extreme edges of their political leaning that is just waiting for a trigger incident to boil over and burn us all.

Agree to DISagree seems to have been pushed aside by PUNCH YOU IN THE FACE, if you do not agree with me.

Both sides can point to examples to be used as excuses, but am I the only one that sees this being a slippery slope leading to more pointing and " ________ made me do it " type excuses? Where they feel perfectly justified in their violence?

Or has the time for talking over, and the time for picking sides upon us.

One of the great conservative insights is that civilization is fragile, and depends either on all sides agreeing to abide by its rules, or a powerful Leviathan that consistently and seriously punishes misbehavior.

The left has always had a reduced appreciation for this, when they don't reject it. That portions of the Right are now joining them means that the conditions are in place for a kind of arms-race/spiral-of-violence.

As a fan of civilization, I don't see a moral difference between anyone who suggests violence or intimidation towards or shutting down political opposition. Trump and the disrupters both are tearing at the foundations of civilized discourse by resorting or preaching it's dissolution.

 

[OpportunityCost]

LOL but you would expect precisely that to be the case if his position that narratives from the left are not as absurd as the narratives from the right, which he identified, was correct.

He did ask you to identify even just one "narrative from the left that comes close to the level of absurdity of one of the examples."





And as a general matter, "both sides do it" has got to be the least helpful statement in the history of debating. It's a mixture of "two wrongs make a right", "but he started it!" and "shut up." It's also rarely true that both sides are doing exactly the same thing.

Now then, if you had been reading the post and quoted the entire thing, you would see two examples. If you turned on the news to see the "traffic" issue in Arizona you would see a third. When you point to extremism on one side and ignore the other you would see blame and extremism don't just exist on one side of the political spectrum. I don't condone either side, but I do think what the left sees as extreme isn't what everyone calls extreme. Self examination is in order.

 

[Vern]

Sorry, most of us on this side work, or have better things to do with our time. Conservatives don't generally have time to think up stupid stuff to have polls on, we already know the other side is quite bonkers, they confirm it every day. These polls, I can tell, really deeply mean something profound to you, don't they? I can tolerate such silliness, I just ignore it.......

GC, there is no excuse for ignoring that I proved my point. Large number of conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do. there is simply no equivalent from the left to these examples of the non stop lies from the right.

President Obama was born in Kenya
his BC a forgery
he wants to kill old people
he's a secret muslim
the stimulus will cause hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero
Obamacare will kill the economy and jobs
(put the rest of the Obamacare lies here)
the vile and disgusting stand down lies


so to be clear, I made a point and backed it up. You assured us it was wrong and assured us the opposite was true. Of course you're going to make excuses for posting nothing but empty factless rhetoric or as you would say "cotton candy minus the substance".

 

[Lovebug]

Interesting question.
Nothing we see happening appeared overnight but has been a long time coming. As in every relationship and interaction, we see a failure to communicate. The result...tempers boil over once in a while, but inevitably.
Solution...hear each other out. Don't assume, negate and dismiss. Don't fight.
The right has a lot to say, reasons for being disgruntled. No, they aren't racist bigots (exceptions noted, as they are on all sides), no matter how casually this label is being used. Listen what people on the other side have to say and why.
The left has just as much to say. They aren't some mooching dope smoking hippies (exceptions noted, as they are on all sides). They too have cause for frustration. Listen.
The Gov...they benefit nicely from our frustration, have been for a long time. They feed us just enough bs to have us at each others throats. While we are arguing with each other, they happily keep on with their self serving backroom dealings. Now and then they appease us just a bit, right in time for another election.
People, listen. We are in this together. We are American citizens, with all our difference, hopes and dreams. Lets make this country great for all of us. We can't do that if we continue fighting against each other instead of drawing on each others strength. No one side has all the answers, but each side has great ideas and ideals.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

GC, there is no excuse for ignoring that I proved my point. Large number of conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do. there is simply no equivalent from the left to these examples of the non stop lies from the right.

President Obama was born in Kenya
his BC a forgery
he wants to kill old people
he's a secret muslim
the stimulus will cause hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero
Obamacare will kill the economy and jobs
(put the rest of the Obamacare lies here)
the vile and disgusting stand down lies


so to be clear, I made a point and backed it up. You assured us it was wrong and assured us the opposite was true. Of course you're going to make excuses for posting nothing but empty factless rhetoric or as you would say "cotton candy minus the substance".

No, and this is not a thread about me trading insults and countering with the numerous and sundry stupidities abounding from the left.

I've tolerated your mess about as much as my stomach can take.

Take your ridiculous brand of odium somewhere else, maybe where they similarly sing in such discordant tunes. Get thee behind me I like to say.

 

[Vern]

No, and this is not a thread about me trading insults and countering with the numerous and sundry stupidities abounding from the left.

I've tolerated your mess about as much as my stomach can take.

Take your ridiculous brand of odium somewhere else, maybe where they similarly sing in such discordant tunes. Get thee behind me I like to say.

Yes GC, the topic is intolerance. I've proven my point that a large number of conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do. . It seems the problem is that conservatives are intolerant to the truth.

 

[Militant_Vegan_]

Yes GC, the topic is intolerance. I've proven my point that a large number of conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do. . It seems the problem is that conservatives are intolerant to the truth.

Indeed. They also see criticism of their intolerance AS intolerance.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Yes GC, the topic is intolerance. I've proven my point that a large number of conservatives believed asinine, ridiculous and probably racist narratives conservatives and still do. . It seems the problem is that conservatives are intolerant to the truth.

Yeah, that's it, you got it covered like stink on...

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Indeed. They also see criticism of their intolerance AS intolerance.

Hey, we generally tolerate those similarly vapid, low information types, don't we? Mostly we just try to ignore the sour, dour and ridiculously shrill. It would be nice if the left, every once in a while, had something of real substance to, you know, add to the discussion.

Yeah, right, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

 

[Militant_Vegan_]

Hey, we tolerate the likes of you, don't we? Mostly we just try to ignore the sour, dour and ridiculously shrill. It would be nice if the left, every once in a while, had something of real substance to, you know, add to the discussion.

Yeah, right, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Anyone who doesn't parrot you is "the left".

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Anyone who doesn't parrot you is "the left".

You label yourself progressive, then confirmed by uttering silly inanities. Who am I to question all that, eh?

 

[Militant_Vegan_]

You label yourself progressive, then confirmed by uttering silly inanities. Who am I to question all that, eh?

It seems like most of you posts are actually ridiculously shrill.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

It seems like most of you posts are actually ridiculously shrill.

Yes, well, we will keep that in mind, I can assure you. :2wave: As well as your political perspective. Oh, and note the lack of proper tools evidenced as necessary to properly evaluate such.

I do encourage you to keep trying, tho. Practice makes one... slightly better is all one can really hope. eace

 

[RetiredNSmilin]

One of the great conservative insights is that civilization is fragile, and depends either on all sides agreeing to abide by its rules, or a powerful Leviathan that consistently and seriously punishes misbehavior.

The left has always had a reduced appreciation for this, when they don't reject it. That portions of the Right are now joining them means that the conditions are in place for a kind of arms-race/spiral-of-violence.

As a fan of civilization, I don't see a moral difference between anyone who suggests violence or intimidation towards or shutting down political opposition. Trump and the disrupters both are tearing at the foundations of civilized discourse by resorting or preaching it's dissolution.

cpwill...this post of your should be made a STICKY. Your words went straight to the truth and heart of the issue. You said it better than I could when I started this thread.

Can you help me here?

In this very thread.....

a) I have read post cursing Trump voters, but the very act of doing that makes them just the same.

b) I have heard the tired old "just like Hitler" actually used seriously, and they honestly BELIEVE IT!

c) I have heard " just like Mussolini" and they believe it

d) I have read Saddam Hussein comparisons, and they believe it.

because these emotional bundles are actually serious and believe these foolish words I feel the downward spiral has already started.

When lack of rational thinking, and high emotional shrill are ruling the day, it is easy to see where this is leading.

I guess before in time, those comments were dismissed out-of-hand, but now there are those that actually believe them. PROOF is right here in this thread.

Maybe it is time to dig a hole, crawl in, and see what is left after November.

Anytime otherwise thinking and rational people seriously believe a New York real eastate tycoon is " just like Hitler", there is a huge disconnect and this will not end well.

I feel like humanity and logic just flew out the window.

I know, I know...that is all Trumps fault too, right?

 

[Abbazorkzog]

We just need to drop the 'left' and 'right' and other labels and recognize that we are all Americans, and should educate one another peacefully, while simultaneously encouraging diversity in political opinion, culture and other things.

 

[cpwill]

cpwill...this post of your should be made a STICKY. Your words went straight to the truth and heart of the issue. You said it better than I could when I started this thread.

Thanks, man. That's a nice thing to say.

Can you help me here?

In this very thread.....

a) I have read post cursing Trump voters, but the very act of doing that makes them just the same.

b) I have heard the tired old "just like Hitler" actually used seriously, and they honestly BELIEVE IT!

c) I have heard " just like Mussolini" and they believe it

d) I have read Saddam Hussein comparisons, and they believe it.

Hm. Well, firstly, everyone always compares the leaders to those names because they are substituting emotional analysis for historical analysis. I feel "bad" about Hitler, I feel "bad" about Bush, ergo, Bush is Hitler. Obama was also Hitler. Hitlary (woops, see what I did, there?) is also Hitler, as is Trump. I'm sure if he wins the nomination somehow, Ted Cruz will also be Hitler.

In Trump's case, however, there is an actual historical/ideological case to be made that what his movement represents is the closest thing to actual Fascism in mainstream American politics. In that sense, the comparisons can be (which does not mean that they will be) apt.

When lack of rational thinking, and high emotional shrill are ruling the day, it is easy to see where this is leading.

I guess before in time, those comments were dismissed out-of-hand, but now there are those that actually believe them. PROOF is right here in this thread.

Maybe it is time to dig a hole, crawl in, and see what is left after November.

Anytime otherwise thinking and rational people seriously believe a New York real eastate tycoon is " just like Hitler", there is a huge disconnect and this will not end well.

I feel like humanity and logic just flew out the window.

I know, I know...that is all Trumps fault too, right?

Well he has encouraged it. :shrug: Starting with his Birther crusade, he's been a big part of trying to get a portion of the Right to toss Reason out of the window in favor of Passion ("But We're Angry!!!" is the inevitable defense of a put-upon Trump supporter or defender). That he joins his opposite numbers on the left does, as you say, make it far more likely that we get a self-feeding downward spiral.

 

[SHOOTER]

i bet most of the people in both pictures are democrats.

run don run

 

[SHOOTER]

this political correctness form both the republicans and the democrats is almost sickening,where i come from you stick your face is someones business you might get it punched.
i can not tell the RNC from the DNC .

run don run