- Joined
- Sep 3, 2011
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- 34,817
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- Look to your right... I'm that guy.
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- Centrist
absolutely an issue
bankruptcy represents fiscal failure
it is a response to making unwise financial decisions
sometimes, it can be justified as the only alternative one has when faced with a medical/wage calamity that was beyond the bankrupt debtor's control
but that is not the scenario for tRump's many trips to bankruptcy court
the donald exploits bankruptcy provisions to then exploit his creditors. he has recently commented how he looks for ways to pay his financial obligations at discounted pennies on the dollar. taking that debt into bankruptcy court is a mechanism to achieve that end. while it IS legal, i would find his use of it is not ethical. however, there are few things about tRump that one would find 'ethical'
If you don't like "the system" then change the system. Trump didn't write the laws he's abiding by re:bankruptcy. Blame the politicians who wrote such laws. And the fact that Trump usually comes out of these bankruptcies smelling like a rose means that he's worked the system properly.
Are Donald Trump's multiple bankruptcies (BK) a legitimate issue?
For his campaign and/or qualifications for public office.
I say no. Certainly BK is not ideal, and it is generally avoided, but in today's world BK is as much a conscious business strategy as anything else. It's how you come out on the other end that matters, and Trump always seems to come out well at the other end. If anything, that might be indicative of his ability to "work the system" in order to succeed.
Doesn't mean I'm warming to trump, of course. I still believe he'd be a travesty overall. I just don't think this specific complaint is valid.
This, to me, is now-invalid old-school thinking, at least as a blanket statement. There are plenty of people and businesses who did not make unwise financial decisions yet still face the reality of BK. It is not uncommon at all.absolutely an issue
bankruptcy represents fiscal failure
it is a response to making unwise financial decisions
sometimes, it can be justified as the only alternative one has when faced with a medical/wage calamity that was beyond the bankrupt debtor's control
but that is not the scenario for tRump's many trips to bankruptcy court
the donald exploits bankruptcy provisions to then exploit his creditors. he has recently commented how he looks for ways to pay his financial obligations at discounted pennies on the dollar. taking that debt into bankruptcy court is a mechanism to achieve that end. while it IS legal, i would find his use of it is not ethical. however, there are few things about tRump that one would find 'ethical'
This, to me, is now-invalid old-school thinking, at least as a blanket statement. There are plenty of people and businesses who did not make unwise financial decisions yet still face the reality of BK. It is not uncommon at all.
On the other hand, and to another of your points, there are also people who do indeed exploit the 'opportunity'. Trump probably balls into this category, I'll grant. I suppose one could ask, did he truly *need* to file BK, or was he just using/abusing the intent of the system?
Then that begs the question: If he was merely gaming the system, and not the financial failure so many claim, is that good or bad? Is it unethical to use the legal tools available to further oneself and/or one's business?
that is why i used the expression 'exploit'
the bankruptcy court is a very essential mechanism for debtors whose circumstance was created thru no fault of their own. that should not be discarded because those such as tRump instead use it to exploit their legitimate creditors
there are people who exploit easy access to food stamps/SNAP program. their exploitation of that program should not cause that beneficial program to be dismantled
however, we should recognize that tRump is in the same 'scoundrel' category as someone who exploits the food stamp program put in place to help the poor
Probably not, but legal does not necessarily equate to ethical.Many people who abuse SNAP are engaging in criminal acts and the government doesn't have the resources to prosecute. Did Trump abuse bankruptcy in any criminal way?
Are Donald Trump's multiple bankruptcies (BK) a legitimate issue?
For his campaign and/or qualifications for public office.
I say no (though I did vote 'minor issue'). Certainly BK is not ideal, and it is generally avoided, but in today's world BK is as much a conscious business strategy as anything else. It's how you come out on the other end that matters, and Trump always seems to come out well at the other end. If anything, that might be indicative of his ability to "work the system" in order to succeed.
Doesn't mean I'm warming to trump, of course. I still believe he'd be a travesty overall. I just don't think this specific complaint is valid.
I would argue that it is a serious issue and the Donald's comments this past weekend, recommending that the United States could borrow against its debt and negotiate its creditors into accepting a pay cut, illustrate why.
Mr. Trump has spent nearly all of his business time as a real estate developer. Real estate developers routinely borrow against their debt in order to fund additional ventures. If those ventures work out, you make a lot of money. If those ventures fail, then you have bankruptcy as a fall back position. And that system works, in the private sector. It does not work for sovereign nations.
The fact that Trump still seems to view everything governmental through the prism of the private business that is the sole basis of his "experience" necessitates that we analyze all of his business decisions. Especially given the fact that, apparently, he still thinks that all of those bankruptcies are a potential solution for America's problems at large.
Two good answers that have me rethinking my position. :thumbs:It was a minor issue until last week, when he confirmed that he viewed those experiences as something positive on which he would formulate policy. The idea that we can deliberately destabilize the dollar, "renegotiate" with bondholders, print our way out of trouble, and then buy back our own debt at discounted prices is....
Well, it's unprecedented. Because it's so amazingly stupid, that even socialists wouldn't try it. You'd have to be Bat-Guano to think that was a good idea. But Trump thinks he's the King Of Debt, so...
Many people who abuse SNAP are engaging in criminal acts and the government doesn't have the resources to prosecute. Did Trump abuse bankruptcy in any criminal way?
This, to me, is now-invalid old-school thinking, at least as a blanket statement. There are plenty of people and businesses who did not make unwise financial decisions yet still face the reality of BK. It is not uncommon at all.
On the other hand, and to another of your points, there are also people who do indeed exploit the 'opportunity'. Trump probably balls into this category, I'll grant. I suppose one could ask, did he truly *need* to file BK, or was he just using/abusing the intent of the system?
Then that begs the question: If he was merely gaming the system, and not the financial failure so many claim, is that good or bad? Is it unethical to use the legal tools available to further oneself and/or one's business?
Are Donald Trump's multiple bankruptcies (BK) a legitimate issue?
For his campaign and/or qualifications for public office.
I say no (though I did vote 'minor issue'). Certainly BK is not ideal, and it is generally avoided, but in today's world BK is as much a conscious business strategy as anything else. It's how you come out on the other end that matters, and Trump always seems to come out well at the other end. If anything, that might be indicative of his ability to "work the system" in order to succeed.
Doesn't mean I'm warming to trump, of course. I still believe he'd be a travesty overall. I just don't think this specific complaint is valid.
Are Donald Trump's multiple bankruptcies (BK) a legitimate issue?
For his campaign and/or qualifications for public office.
I say no (though I did vote 'minor issue'). Certainly BK is not ideal, and it is generally avoided, but in today's world BK is as much a conscious business strategy as anything else. It's how you come out on the other end that matters, and Trump always seems to come out well at the other end. If anything, that might be indicative of his ability to "work the system" in order to succeed.
Doesn't mean I'm warming to trump, of course. I still believe he'd be a travesty overall. I just don't think this specific complaint is valid.
I should never be mistaken for someone who supports Donald Trump's run for the Presidency, but I think it's unfair to have an OP title and content that implies that Donald Trump has had personal bankruptcies. I don't believe that he has had even one personal bankruptcy although several of his business interests have failed at one time or another. Businesses fail in America hundreds of times a day and considering the vast number of business interests Trump has his finger in, it's not surprising that he would be connected with a business failure on occasion. It is important to note, however, that he doesn't put his personal wealth or assets on the line in such ventures and so is not in any danger of failing personally.
America was built and became great on the backs of people like Trump who dared to fail. To me, that's one of his better attributes, of which there are few.
Debt, in and of itself, is not necessarily unwise. So that doesn't really mean anything here.I've done some research into this, actually, and discovered that 100% of the businesses who went into bankruptcy were those who went into debt.
Debt is dangerous, and usually it's dumb. It puts you at risk, makes you a slave to the lender, and steals the ownership and joy from your dreams.
Trump's M.O. was to pay himself a massive salary, and then let the business fail for lack of cash. Generally I'd call that unethical, as I would call unethical his habit of refusing to pay contractors the agreed-upon price, banking on the fact that they would realize that it would be more expensive to drag him through years of litigation than to simply accept the losses.
Fair point. It was not intended to imply as much. My apologies.I should never be mistaken for someone who supports Donald Trump's run for the Presidency, but I think it's unfair to have an OP title and content that implies that Donald Trump has had personal bankruptcies. I don't believe that he has had even one personal bankruptcy although several of his business interests have failed at one time or another. Businesses fail in America hundreds of times a day and considering the vast number of business interests Trump has his finger in, it's not surprising that he would be connected with a business failure on occasion. It is important to note, however, that he doesn't put his personal wealth or assets on the line in such ventures and so is not in any danger of failing personally.
America was built and became great on the backs of people like Trump who dared to fail. To me, that's one of his better attributes, of which there are few.
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