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Are Covid passports a threat to liberty? It depends on how you define freedom

CLAX1911 said:
If fighting the virus doesn't give you antibodies to stave it off in the future then how would a vaccine give you antibodies?

If you can get reinfected then the vaccine won't work or you'll have to get it every year and take your chances like we do with the flu vaccine.
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Are you rejecting the opinions and advice of doctors? What is you qualification to do so?
 
Aristaeus said:
Are you rejecting the opinions and advice of doctors? What is you qualification to do so?
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I'm asking a question. Are all doctors magical people that are beyond reproach and we should just bow to them and believe everything they say because? Or should we expect some explanation?
 
CLAX1911 said:
I'm asking a question. Are all doctors magical people that are beyond reproach and we should just bow to them and believe everything they say because? Or should we expect some explanation?
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Natural immunity effectiveness and duration will depend on the initial viral load you were subjected to, and that is something you don't know.

With the vaccine, we do know how much is entering your body.
 
Aristaeus said:
Natural immunity effectiveness and duration will depend on the initial viral load you were subjected to, and that is something you don't know.

With the vaccine, we do know how much is entering your body.
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Yeah it's probably less because they're not multiplying in your body.

A vaccine is a weakened strain of the virus to build up anybody's if you can't get the same anybody's from fighting off the virus how is the vaccine going to work?

Having a benchmark doesn't prove anything.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah it's probably less because they're not multiplying in your body.

A vaccine is a weakened strain of the virus to build up anybody's if you can't get the same anybody's from fighting off the virus how is the vaccine going to work?

Having a benchmark doesn't prove anything.
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I am not an expert and neither are you. The experts say you should still get the vaccine even if you've had covid.

Just because you don't understand the science behind the advice doesn't mean the advice is wrong.
 
Aristaeus said:
I am not an expert and neither are you. The experts say you should still get the vaccine even if you've had covid.
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yeah I'm not in that religion. The experts are truly experts they can explain it. They really understand what they're talking about it should be a cinch to explain.

Listen and believe it's for the snake handlers not me.
Just because you don't understand the science behind the advice doesn't mean the advice is wrong.
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Exactly why I'm reserving judgment. I haven't decided the advice is wrong I just don't know and I'm not a listen and believe kind of guy. I'm smart enough to understand if they treat everyone like they're stupid then they probably don't have any respect for the people that are talking to.

Also one of the vaccines has caused blood clots and I'm prone to those so can this vaccine kill me? There wasn't any research done on it and you go get it you're just a guinea pig I'm not so sure I want to risk my life at that I've already had covid and extremely survivable for me so I'm not worried about getting it again.
 
COTO said:
I guess we'll see, won't we?

I'll even throw in a bonus: I'll concede the point if maintaining robust immunity requires fewer than 4 separate vaccinations in the next three years. Meaning that you win even if the average vaccine is effective against the major circulating strains for as little as 16 months.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable. I'm just saying that already I'm hearing a lot of rumblings about yearly vaccinations. The Big Pharma CEOs are going on record talking about "second" and "third" vaccine regimens.

If a vaccine will provide 10 years of immunity against the major variants, I'll be very happy to be proven wrong.
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We have annual flu shots because immunity isn't lasting; I don't see why annual Covid shots should be any more problematic for anyone.
 
Bodhisattva said:
There are cases of the vaccine not even working for people... who can then get the virus, pass it on to others who might die along with the perp, um, guy who got the virus. Life is not guaranteed ... people need to get the **** over it and stop demanding shit because they are scared little children.
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So I take it you won't be getting vaccinated then because there's nothing to fear from a pandemic which has so far killed over three million. Am I reading you correctly?
 
CLAX1911 said:
I'm asking a question. Are all doctors magical people that are beyond reproach and we should just bow to them and believe everything they say because? Or should we expect some explanation?
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No, they are trained professionals and experts in whatever field they chose to specialise in. If you're so concerned that medics won't help you, go ask a plumber for his advice on medical matters, and when you break a leg get your grocer to fix it. Doctors don't need sceptics like you wasting their time.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah it's probably less because they're not multiplying in your body.

A vaccine is a weakened strain of the virus to build up anybody's if you can't get the same anybody's from fighting off the virus how is the vaccine going to work?

Having a benchmark doesn't prove anything.
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False
The mRNA vaccines contain no virus.
I think you should continue asking your plumber for medical advice.
 
snakestretcher said:
If the vaccine isn't working, as you stated, what would be the point of wasting a shot on you?
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I never said that the vaccine is not working... is it comprehension or dishonesty?
snakestretcher said:
No, they are trained professionals and experts in whatever field they chose to specialise in. If you're so concerned that medics won't help you, go ask a plumber for his advice on medical matters, and when you break a leg get your grocer to fix it. Doctors don't need sceptics like you wasting their time.
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Yet somehow a grocer can tell us what aisle the ketchup is on...
 
Ethel2 said:
I heard ten years of immunity; you heard annual boosters. I can handle either alternate-I have no fear of needles or of the mRNA vaccines.
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Bear in mind that if vaccination becomes mandatory (which is where vaccine passports are taking things), what you have to fear is every vaccination, every new medical technology the government feels is necessary, and every violation of medical privacy the state deems necessary. We'll have established a precedent and ceded liberties we can't recover. That's the bigger picture.
 
COTO said:
Bear in mind that if vaccination becomes mandatory (which is where vaccine passports are taking things), what you have to fear is every vaccination, every new medical technology the government feels is necessary, and every violation of medical privacy the state deems necessary. We'll have established a precedent and ceded liberties we can't recover. That's the bigger picture.
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In their absolute fear based paralyses they just want to feel like they are being saved... reminds me of the stupid airport security measures post 9/11.
 
CLAX1911 said:
Yeah it's probably less because they're not multiplying in your body.

A vaccine is a weakened strain of the virus to build up anybody's if you can't get the same anybody's from fighting off the virus how is the vaccine going to work?

Having a benchmark doesn't prove anything.
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Actually , the mRNA vaccine works a bit differently.

The mRNA vaccines consist of a snippet of genetic code directing production of the coronavirus' spike protein. That snippet is delivered in a tiny fat bubble called a lipid nanoparticle.
The body starts producing antibodies to fight the Covid viris and the lipid disappears quickly once injected into body.
 
COTO said:
Bear in mind that if vaccination becomes mandatory (which is where vaccine passports are taking things), what you have to fear is every vaccination, every new medical technology the government feels is necessary, and every violation of medical privacy the state deems necessary. We'll have established a precedent and ceded liberties we can't recover. That's the bigger picture.
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I only see vaccine passports as being voluntary.

Much easier to show the card than taking a Swab test for Covid 36 hours before travel or an event you wish to attend.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Wrong

mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19

www.cdc.gov

Understanding How COVID-19 Vaccines Work

Learn about how COVID-19 vaccines will work with your body’s natural defenses to safely develop protection (immunity) to this serious disease.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov
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Did you even read your link? If you did you clearly didn’t understand it.
The mRNA vaccines contain NO virus. They code for the spike (S) protein. They are not viral RNA and therefore cannot replicate.
If I gave you a bottle of wine would you consider the bottle to be wine too? The virus is inside the S protein (among other things) but the mRNA vaccine is absolutely NOT viral material:

“ mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19 that gives our cells instructions for how to make a harmless protein that is unique to the virus. After our cells make copies of the protein, they destroy the genetic material from the vaccine.”
 
minnie616 said:
I only see vaccine passports as being voluntary.

Much easier to show the card than taking a Swab test for Covid 36 hours before travel or an event you wish to attend.
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I really hope this is the extent of it.

A swab test for a specific pathogen isn't an unreasonable violation of person or privacy. I can tolerate that much.
 
Ethel2 said:
Did you even read your link? If you did you clearly didn’t understand it.
The mRNA vaccines contain NO virus. They code for the spike (S) protein. They are not viral RNA and therefore cannot replicate.
If I gave you a bottle of wine would you consider the bottle to be wine too? The virus is inside the S protein (among other things) but the mRNA vaccine is absolutely NOT viral material:

“ mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19 that gives our cells instructions for how to make a harmless protein that is unique to the virus. After our cells make copies of the protein, they destroy the genetic material from the vaccine.”
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I did and it said this:
mRNA vaccines contain material from the virus that causes COVID-19
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Bodhisattva said:
I did and it said this:
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It contains genetic code for spike protein only.
It doesn’t even contain a weakened virus. There is no code for the virus itself.
Saying that there is “viral material “ in the vaccine is like saying that the material to make a glass wine bottle is the same as the material used to make wine.
 
Ethel2 said:
It contains genetic code for spike protein only.
It doesn’t even contain a weakened virus. There is no code for the virus itself.
Saying that there is “viral material “ in the vaccine is like saying that the material to make a glass wine bottle is the same as the material used to make wine.
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I proved your assertion incorrect... that is all. *shrug*
 
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