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There is no answer to the OP's question.
What we presently are seeing from Trump or Clinton, is not necessarily what will become history in terms of success.
Things and events have a way distinguishing good leadership. A few good or bad decisions could make all the difference in the people's perception.
Here's a gem from just this afternoon:
The captions suggest that this black man was being manhandled like this at the RNC. Of course, the picture has absolutely nothing to do with the RNC. It was taken in Indonesia.
I've been thinking about this. I do think either Trump or Clinton will be horrible presidents. So horrible that if Clinton wins that the Republicans will have a landslide midterm congressional election. Then with a decent candidate, not Trump like, they'll waltz into the White House and increase their margins in the House and senate to FDR type numbers to where the GOP will have free reign.
Of course the opposite is true if Trump wins. The American people will be so peeved at Trump they will give the Democrats total control of congress in 2018 and the White House and FDR type numbers where the Dems will have free reign.
Which ever party wins this election it will take them 20-30 years to win another their candidates are so bad this time around.
A Trump loss = a Hillary win.
No, conservatives will NOT be better off with a Trump loss. Heck, the whole COUNTRY will not be better off with a Trump loss.
He is the lesser of evils.
Yea well, from my personal experiance, and the data, the conservative movement will die forever under trump. While clinton is no conservative, the country's partisan opposition to her will keep it alive for the next 4 years. At this point, it's not about the supreme court anymore, it's about the entirety of the conservative movement which trump will kill, and all his followers will aid him in it. The republican party needs a fresh start, and it'll be in 2020
To say the conservative movement (or conservatism itself?) will die with Trump, is like saying liberalism will die with Bernie (in or out of office, as you so chose).shrug...
Everyone has an opinion...me, you, the other guy.
I don't share your doom and gloom for the "conservative movement". Heck, I don't even share it if you apply it to the Republican Party.
People will still be conservatives and people will still be Republicans.
Life goes on...
To say the conservative movement (or conservatism itself?) will die with Trump, is like saying liberalism will die with Bernie (in or out of office, as you so chose).
Not even close!
I'm actually pretty blown away by the statement I bolded above.
Electing big government Progressives to office is indeed bad for the country.The GOP party conservatives? Maybe, but most seem to be too stupid to understand why.
The Ted Cruz conservatives? I doubt it. I think Ted has **** in his Wheaties over the last few days.
The country as a whole, if Hillary is elected instead? Based on what would happen to the SCOTUS and the long term effect to this country that would have... hell no.
And, it makes me physically sick to think about it.
Electing big government Progressives to office is indeed bad for the country.
Unfortunately, this election, big government Progressives are at the top of the ticket for both mainstream parties. So we aren't really getting a choice, except in flavor - one is more corrupt, the other more crazy. Both will be disasters for the country.
Between the two, therefore, the question is: which one best sets the conditions for a return of Conservatism?
Hillary's incompetence and corruption will be blamed on Democrats and Liberalism. Trumps' will be blamed on Republicans and Conservatism. A Hillary Administration likely produces a GOP wave. A Trump administration likely produces a Democrat wave. A Hillary Administration will be reliably restrained by a GOP Congress. A Trump Administration will not. Instead, Conservatism will be tossed aside as the motivating ideology of the Republican party in favor of nationalism mixed with middle class socialism.
The worst thing that can happen in the 2016 POTUS race for either party, at this point, is that they win - but the consequences are starker for Conservatives.
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Trump is the worst for our country, except for Hillary Clinton. I'm voting for Trump because he'll be less problematic than Hillary. But I'm not defending everything he does. If he goes off the reservation and does something stupid, I'm laying into him even harder than a Democrat.
Cruz will and has survived an orchestrated attack by Trump. It was a one time issue that will pass. Trump wasn't smart in attacking him the way he did. Cruz is savvy enough to block legislation Trump wants and might end up pushing Trump into a corner and giving up something Ted wants to get something Trump wants. There won't be any favors. Everything will come at a price.
If Cruz does what you say, he will be voted out. Did you not hear the booos. Trump if president is the leader of the party and Cruz will be out. Nobody in congress likes Cruz now.
Orchestrated boos coming from a Trump operative. The delegates that were there say the boos were isolated and so loud very few knew what Ted Cruz said. EXCLUSIVE: Cruz Camp: Trump Campaign Approved Speech, 'Orchestrated' RNC Blowback To 'Make Cruz a Pariah' | Daily Wire
I haven't decided for whom I will vote as of yet. The reason? The Supreme Court. If Scalia had not died, and Ginsburg had not started acting like she's about to retire, I would be right there with you, exactly where you are. So basically, I agree with your logic and position. However, with the Supreme Court in play, which also puts the future of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th Amendments in play as well, I find myself torn. Short term, I feel that Trump may be less harmful to the long term survivability of our Constitutional rights and our Constitutional Republic, being that Hillary can change those via SCOTUS rulings by simply packing the court with Living Adaptive Document Justices, like Ginsburg and the other 3 Progressive justices, rather than Textualists like Scalia was.
That's my concern. I'm less concerned with loss of political control over the next 8 to 16 years or so, than I am with 20 to 40 years minimum (possibly a millennia) of progressives on the high court demolishing the foundation of our country and our way of life. However, as you point out, a Trump Presidency may make the GOP lose the House and the Senate in 2 to 4 years from now, which may only delay the reformation of the balance on the SCOTUS. Or would it? If Trump replaces Scalia and Ginsburg exits by choice or by natural causes, then the long term protection of the Constitution would be accomplished even if the GOP were to lose control of Congress 2 years and the White House in the next Presidential election.
Like I said, I'm still torn.
Electing big government Progressives to office is indeed bad for the country.
Unfortunately, this election, big government Progressives are at the top of the ticket for both mainstream parties. So we aren't really getting a choice, except in flavor - one is more corrupt, the other more crazy. Both will be disasters for the country.
Between the two, therefore, the question is: which one best sets the conditions for a return of Conservatism?
Hillary's incompetence and corruption will be blamed on Democrats and Liberalism. Trumps' will be blamed on Republicans and Conservatism. A Hillary Administration likely produces a GOP wave. A Trump administration likely produces a Democrat wave. A Hillary Administration will be reliably restrained by a GOP Congress. A Trump Administration will not. Instead, Conservatism will be tossed aside as the motivating ideology of the Republican party in favor of nationalism mixed with middle class socialism.
The worst thing that can happen in the 2016 POTUS race for either party, at this point, is that they win - but the consequences are starker for Conservatives.
Trump spent (estimate) about $20 on his primary. The alternative to allowing individual funding is the media picking our leaders. That appears to have happened for both parties this year, and I have to say, I'm not impressed with their selection.The problem is that the primary process has priced out any independent candidate, long before we get to the general election. You can't win without a machine behind you, and to get a machine behind you, you have to sell out to the machine.
Then explain why Curz is so hated in Congress.
The damage was done when Trump became the nominee. We're seeing some Republicans going beyond merely refusing to endorse him but leaving the party outright (or, at least, intending to sit at home in Nov.)
A devastating trump ass whupping may energize the repub party to try and reinvent itself, and it really needs reinventing. But even if they do, who will vote for them? The tea party voters will not. In a sense, the repub party is NOT the problem. The problem is the selfish, racist, hateful, fundamentalist christian VOTERS. Regiggering the party at the top will NOT solve the problem that the voters have. Only a concerted effort to educate them on what is needed to govern effectively will bring them around, and I don't think the repubs have the intelligence and cajones to do it. I predict a permanent split, as I said earlier.
Because he's exposed the Republican's for supporting Democratic issues and claiming they didn't.
I'm betting YOU'RE not a Republican voter, generally.
You forgot the option of voting for Gary Johnson at the top of the ticket, and Republicans on the rest of the ballot.
I've been thinking about this. I do think either Trump or Clinton will be horrible presidents. So horrible that if Clinton wins that the Republicans will have a landslide midterm congressional election. Then with a decent candidate, not Trump like, they'll waltz into the White House and increase their margins in the House and senate to FDR type numbers to where the GOP will have free reign.
Of course the opposite is true if Trump wins. The American people will be so peeved at Trump they will give the Democrats total control of congress in 2018 and the White House and FDR type numbers where the Dems will have free reign.
Which ever party wins this election it will take them 20-30 years to win another their candidates are so bad this time around.
This is a powerful message, and I notice you're a fellow Texas resident. For those who think Cruz ended his career, the Branch Trumpidians words do not match the actions of their Dear Leader. Trump has set up a super PAC targeting Cruz, so he must be worried. See link below:
Trump Seeks To Set Up SuperPAC's To Hurt Cruz And Kasich, #Unity | RedState
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