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Are Conservatives Better Off With a Trump Loss?

SDET

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Consider this article to see where I'm coming from:

Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off? | RedState

Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off?

According to Donald Trump, the Republican Party is united. According to Ted Cruz and his supporters, not so much.

After Cruz spoke at the RNC, refusing to endorse Donald Trump, many in the media and on social media were upset. Ted Cruz took a huge risk by telling voters to "vote their conscience", effectively endorsing the #NeverTrump movement.

What did the voters think of that?



Follow
Echelon @EchelonInsights
Do voters approve of @tedcruz's decision not to endorse @realDonaldTrump?

Approve 40%
Disapprove 32%
Unsure 22%
1:00 PM - 22 Jul 2016
155 155 Retweets 135 135 likes
As you can see here the outcome was much different than some would have you believe. More people supported Cruz's decision than opposed it, and this clearly shows a divide within the Republican Party.

If only Republicans had nominated a candidate that wasn't so universally hated...
 

Beaudreaux

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Consider this article to see where I'm coming from:

Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off? | RedState

The GOP party conservatives? Maybe, but most seem to be too stupid to understand why.

The Ted Cruz conservatives? I doubt it. I think Ted has **** in his Wheaties over the last few days.

The country as a whole, if Hillary is elected instead? Based on what would happen to the SCOTUS and the long term effect to this country that would have... hell no.

And, it makes me physically sick to think about it.
 

RetiredUSN

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There is no answer to the OP's question.

What we presently are seeing from Trump or Clinton, is not necessarily what will become history in terms of success.

Things and events have a way distinguishing good leadership. A few good or bad decisions could make all the difference in the people's perception.
 

Captain Adverse

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Consider this article to see where I'm coming from:

Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off?

According to Donald Trump, the Republican Party is united. According to Ted Cruz and his supporters, not so much.

After Cruz spoke at the RNC, refusing to endorse Donald Trump, many in the media and on social media were upset. Ted Cruz took a huge risk by telling voters to "vote their conscience", effectively endorsing the #NeverTrump movement.

What did the voters think of that?


Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off? | RedState



Do voters approve?

Sounds like a poll of the general electorate (although the citation does not provide any data on who and how many were polled.)

So how does this poll really reflect what Republican voters think?

Moreover, I listened to Cruz's speech and he didn't say much of anything beyond general platitudes except to avoid mentioning Trump and emphasizing "taking back the Senate." (When did the Republicans lose it?)
 

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Consider this article to see where I'm coming from:

Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off? | RedState

I've been thinking about this. I do think either Trump or Clinton will be horrible presidents. So horrible that if Clinton wins that the Republicans will have a landslide midterm congressional election. Then with a decent candidate, not Trump like, they'll waltz into the White House and increase their margins in the House and senate to FDR type numbers to where the GOP will have free reign.

Of course the opposite is true if Trump wins. The American people will be so peeved at Trump they will give the Democrats total control of congress in 2018 and the White House and FDR type numbers where the Dems will have free reign.

Which ever party wins this election it will take them 20-30 years to win another their candidates are so bad this time around.
 

Perotista

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The GOP party conservatives? Maybe, but most seem to be too stupid to understand why.

The Ted Cruz conservatives? I doubt it. I think Ted has **** in his Wheaties over the last few days.

The country as a whole, if Hillary is elected instead? Based on what would happen to the SCOTUS and the long term effect to this country that would have... hell no.

And, it makes me physically sick to think about it.

I think those in the Republican Party responsible for Trump's nomination should of thought of the SCOTUS openings before they made their statement against the Republican establishment and nominated Trump. They should have thought about coming up with a candidate than can win in November that isn't so detested by the majority of the American people. Outside of avid Trump supporters, he just isn't liked and people have a habit of not voting for someone they dislike.

With a decent candidate the Republican Party nominee would be 10 or 15 points ahead of the baggage laden Hillary Clinton which the majority of Americans also dislike instead of being 5 points behind.
 

chuckiechan

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Cruz pretty much ended his career.

He rose to his reputation. Many prople who thought his road was hard because he was a Tea Partier, can now see that it's obvious he is just a self centered prick.

Nothing more to see here. Ever.

And with amnesty and increased immigration combined with regularization of the Clinton Foundation, there will be no more wins.
 
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finebead

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I don't think the correct question is whether conservatives are better off with a Trump loss. I see the nature of politics in the US changing fundamentally, whether trump wins or loses. It is happening in the two major parties. I see the tea party splitting off from the establishment repubs, and the Sanders wing of the dem party wandering off in their unrealistic bewilderment.

We may end up like a European country, with a coalition government..... You already have the libertarians who are polling 13%, and the greens. It feels like things are changing.
 

DarkWizard12

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Consider this article to see where I'm coming from:

Ted Cruz Took A Risk, Did It Pay Off? | RedState

Honestly, as a lifelong republican, and every long term member here can attest to, I do not like obama, and i never liked hillary. But the republican party and conservative party blew it with trump. After participating and witnessing many of hate and actions of the trumpers, I cannot vote for trump. I hate hillary but with trump, he is everything the constitution and the founders are against. We can live with another corporate democrat. We cannot live with trump, who i fear if president, the conservative movement will officially be dead for good and replaced with this cruel, perverted form.
 

SDET

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Honestly, as a lifelong republican, and every long term member here can attest to, I do not like obama, and i never liked hillary. But the republican party and conservative party blew it with trump. After participating and witnessing many of hate and actions of the trumpers, I cannot vote for trump. I hate hillary but with trump, he is everything the constitution and the founders are against. We can live with another corporate democrat. We cannot live with trump, who i fear if president, the conservative movement will officially be dead for good and replaced with this cruel, perverted form.

This is a powerful message, and I notice you're a fellow Texas resident. For those who think Cruz ended his career, the Branch Trumpidians words do not match the actions of their Dear Leader. Trump has set up a super PAC targeting Cruz, so he must be worried. See link below:

Trump Seeks To Set Up SuperPAC's To Hurt Cruz And Kasich, #Unity | RedState
 

DarkWizard12

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I think those in the Republican Party responsible for Trump's nomination should of thought of the SCOTUS openings before they made their statement against the Republican establishment and nominated Trump. They should have thought about coming up with a candidate than can win in November that isn't so detested by the majority of the American people. Outside of avid Trump supporters, he just isn't liked and people have a habit of not voting for someone they dislike.

With a decent candidate the Republican Party nominee would be 10 or 15 points ahead of the baggage laden Hillary Clinton which the majority of Americans also dislike instead of being 5 points behind.

I agree with you. I also think that if Trump loses, we will finally be able to say to the tea party/trumpers. Look we tried your guy and he couldn't even win! So you can't keep crying about how bad the establishment is. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't stop. It's just they will look like little kids and cowards if they continue to yell ESTABLISHMENT at anyone who they don't like. I look at it this way. The Republican Party is on a juice cleanse. We are going to give the crazies everything they asked for (Trump did that yesterday with his speech), and then once things don't turn out all rosy with rainbows and sprinkles on top with either Clinton or Trump in office. We can safely appoint someone calm, like Kasich or Bush.
 

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A Trump loss = a Hillary win.

No, conservatives will NOT be better off with a Trump loss. Heck, the whole COUNTRY will not be better off with a Trump loss.

He is the lesser of evils.
 

DarkWizard12

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I agree with you. I also think that if Trump loses, we will finally be able to say to the tea party/trumpers. Look we tried your guy and he couldn't even win! So you can't keep crying about how bad the establishment is. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't stop. It's just they will look like little kids and cowards if they continue to yell ESTABLISHMENT at anyone who they don't like. I look at it this way. The Republican Party is on a juice cleanse. We are going to give the crazies everything they asked for (Trump did that yesterday with his speech), and then once things don't turn out all rosy with rainbows and sprinkles on top with either Clinton or Trump in office. We can safely appoint someone calm, like Kasich or Bush.

The Trumpers are not the Tea party, they are just fools. They fell for a con man. But regardless, yes, I do agree that's what will be spun by the media if he loses. "We tried your guy....." WHICH IS BULL**** because, as a tea party conservative, I saw through him from day one. He is a small, weak, egotistical little man, and now he speaks for all of us....
 

DarkWizard12

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A Trump loss = a Hillary win.

No, conservatives will NOT be better off with a Trump loss. Heck, the whole COUNTRY will not be better off with a Trump loss.

He is the lesser of evils.

How do you know he is the lesser of 2 evils, but not the better of 2 liars?
 

Mycroft

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DarkWizard12

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My experience, historical data...that kind of thing.

Yea well, from my personal experiance, and the data, the conservative movement will die forever under trump. While clinton is no conservative, the country's partisan opposition to her will keep it alive for the next 4 years. At this point, it's not about the supreme court anymore, it's about the entirety of the conservative movement which trump will kill, and all his followers will aid him in it. The republican party needs a fresh start, and it'll be in 2020
 

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I agree with you. I also think that if Trump loses, we will finally be able to say to the tea party/trumpers. Look we tried your guy and he couldn't even win! So you can't keep crying about how bad the establishment is. Of course, that doesn't mean they won't stop. It's just they will look like little kids and cowards if they continue to yell ESTABLISHMENT at anyone who they don't like. I look at it this way. The Republican Party is on a juice cleanse. We are going to give the crazies everything they asked for (Trump did that yesterday with his speech), and then once things don't turn out all rosy with rainbows and sprinkles on top with either Clinton or Trump in office. We can safely appoint someone calm, like Kasich or Bush.

It is a shame they went with Trump because I think the GOP could have, should have easily won the White House. Yes, nominating some crazy senate candidates has cost the GOP at least 4 senate seats. Mourdock, Aiken, Angle, O'Donnell, there could be more. But these I remember.

Now Trump. It seems winning in November isn't at all important.
 

Mycroft

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Yea well, from my personal experiance, and the data, the conservative movement will die forever under trump. While clinton is no conservative, the country's partisan opposition to her will keep it alive for the next 4 years. At this point, it's not about the supreme court anymore, it's about the entirety of the conservative movement which trump will kill, and all his followers will aid him in it. The republican party needs a fresh start, and it'll be in 2020

shrug...

Everyone has an opinion...me, you, the other guy.

I don't share your doom and gloom for the "conservative movement". Heck, I don't even share it if you apply it to the Republican Party.

People will still be conservatives and people will still be Republicans.

Life goes on...
 

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It is a shame they went with Trump because I think the GOP could have, should have easily won the White House. Yes, nominating some crazy senate candidates has cost the GOP at least 4 senate seats. Mourdock, Aiken, Angle, O'Donnell, there could be more. But these I remember.

Now Trump. It seems winning in November isn't at all important.
The gop just wants to be pissed off. all these trumpers want to be pissed off.
 

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I think the Republican Party would be better off if Trump loses and I think that is secretly what the Republican leadership wants. They would much rather attack Hillary for the next 4 years than have to defend Trump. But they don't want to ostracize Trump supporters so they play along.

That is my theory, anyway.
 

Mycroft

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I think the Republican Party would be better off if Trump loses and I think that is secretly what the Republican leadership wants. They would much rather attack Hillary for the next 4 years than have to defend Trump. But they don't want to ostracize Trump supporters so they play along.

That is my theory, anyway.

That would make sense if you consider the Republican Party as only being the Republican Elites. Fact is, though, there are a LOT of Republican rank and file who don't agree with the Republican Elites and there are a lot of the rank and file who will never accept the notion of Hillary as President to be any kind of a good thing. They would rather have Trump.
 

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The GOP party conservatives? Maybe, but most seem to be too stupid to understand why.

The Ted Cruz conservatives? I doubt it. I think Ted has **** in his Wheaties over the last few days.

The country as a whole, if Hillary is elected instead? Based on what would happen to the SCOTUS and the long term effect to this country that would have... hell no.

And, it makes me physically sick to think about it.

I know.

I'm not thrilled in the least as to the prospect of a Hillary term, as well as very concerned for the future distortions, dismantling of the Constitution by her SCOTUS appointments, none of which have the remotest possibility of being Textualists, who would keep to the original intent behind the Constitution.
 

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That would make sense if you consider the Republican Party as only being the Republican Elites. Fact is, though, there are a LOT of Republican rank and file who don't agree with the Republican Elites and there are a lot of the rank and file who will never accept the notion of Hillary as President to be any kind of a good thing. They would rather have Trump.

You are correct, which is why I said Republican leadership.
 
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