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Are Conservatives Better Off With a Trump Loss?

There is no answer to the OP's question.

What we presently are seeing from Trump or Clinton, is not necessarily what will become history in terms of success.

Things and events have a way distinguishing good leadership. A few good or bad decisions could make all the difference in the people's perception.

While true, a few good or bad decisions would set people's perception, I think you are forgetting how the Biased Lame Stream Media forces what they want the people's perceptions to be.

Lest we forget:

Here's a gem from just this afternoon:

67204630d1469222234-cnns-hatred-trump-off-charts-cnn-rnc-jpg


The captions suggest that this black man was being manhandled like this at the RNC. Of course, the picture has absolutely nothing to do with the RNC. It was taken in Indonesia.
 
I've been thinking about this. I do think either Trump or Clinton will be horrible presidents. So horrible that if Clinton wins that the Republicans will have a landslide midterm congressional election. Then with a decent candidate, not Trump like, they'll waltz into the White House and increase their margins in the House and senate to FDR type numbers to where the GOP will have free reign.

Of course the opposite is true if Trump wins. The American people will be so peeved at Trump they will give the Democrats total control of congress in 2018 and the White House and FDR type numbers where the Dems will have free reign.

Which ever party wins this election it will take them 20-30 years to win another their candidates are so bad this time around.

"20-30 years to win another" ?

I think you are seriously over estimating the attention span and memory of the electorate, especially with the Biased Lame Stream Media force feeding their preferred liberal candidates down the electorate's throats.

I mean, look how hard they've pushed and protected Hillary.
 
A Trump loss = a Hillary win.

No, conservatives will NOT be better off with a Trump loss. Heck, the whole COUNTRY will not be better off with a Trump loss.

He is the lesser of evils.

Hell, he may even be good. But I've been severely disappointed once already with Hope and Change. I'm not going to have much faith in Hope and Change part 2 unless I see some actual results.
 
Yea well, from my personal experiance, and the data, the conservative movement will die forever under trump. While clinton is no conservative, the country's partisan opposition to her will keep it alive for the next 4 years. At this point, it's not about the supreme court anymore, it's about the entirety of the conservative movement which trump will kill, and all his followers will aid him in it. The republican party needs a fresh start, and it'll be in 2020

shrug...

Everyone has an opinion...me, you, the other guy.

I don't share your doom and gloom for the "conservative movement". Heck, I don't even share it if you apply it to the Republican Party.

People will still be conservatives and people will still be Republicans.

Life goes on...
To say the conservative movement (or conservatism itself?) will die with Trump, is like saying liberalism will die with Bernie (in or out of office, as you so chose).

Not even close!

I'm actually pretty blown away by the statement I bolded above.
 
To say the conservative movement (or conservatism itself?) will die with Trump, is like saying liberalism will die with Bernie (in or out of office, as you so chose).

Not even close!

I'm actually pretty blown away by the statement I bolded above.

Well, better believe it. He's going to transform it to something that it is not, authoritarian and cult-like worship of dear-leader, who just happens to be right wing. Not a damn constitutional thing will get accomplished, not one single curb of government power will happen. Everything conservatives pretended to want this last 8 years is gone. The movement of ron paul is dead inside the republican party, and dead for good.
 
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A devastating trump ass whupping may energize the repub party to try and reinvent itself, and it really needs reinventing. But even if they do, who will vote for them? The tea party voters will not. In a sense, the repub party is NOT the problem. The problem is the selfish, racist, hateful, fundamentalist christian VOTERS. Regiggering the party at the top will NOT solve the problem that the voters have. Only a concerted effort to educate them on what is needed to govern effectively will bring them around, and I don't think the repubs have the intelligence and cajones to do it. I predict a permanent split, as I said earlier.
 
The GOP party conservatives? Maybe, but most seem to be too stupid to understand why.

The Ted Cruz conservatives? I doubt it. I think Ted has **** in his Wheaties over the last few days.

The country as a whole, if Hillary is elected instead? Based on what would happen to the SCOTUS and the long term effect to this country that would have... hell no.

And, it makes me physically sick to think about it.
Electing big government Progressives to office is indeed bad for the country.

Unfortunately, this election, big government Progressives are at the top of the ticket for both mainstream parties. So we aren't really getting a choice, except in flavor - one is more corrupt, the other more crazy. Both will be disasters for the country.

Between the two, therefore, the question is: which one best sets the conditions for a return of Conservatism?

Hillary's incompetence and corruption will be blamed on Democrats and Liberalism. Trumps' will be blamed on Republicans and Conservatism. A Hillary Administration likely produces a GOP wave. A Trump administration likely produces a Democrat wave. A Hillary Administration will be reliably restrained by a GOP Congress. A Trump Administration will not. Instead, Conservatism will be tossed aside as the motivating ideology of the Republican party in favor of nationalism mixed with middle class socialism.

The worst thing that can happen in the 2016 POTUS race for either party, at this point, is that they win - but the consequences are starker for Conservatives.


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Trump is the worst for our country, except for Hillary Clinton. I'm voting for Trump because he'll be less problematic than Hillary. But I'm not defending everything he does. If he goes off the reservation and does something stupid, I'm laying into him even harder than a Democrat.

Cruz will and has survived an orchestrated attack by Trump. It was a one time issue that will pass. Trump wasn't smart in attacking him the way he did. Cruz is savvy enough to block legislation Trump wants and might end up pushing Trump into a corner and giving up something Ted wants to get something Trump wants. There won't be any favors. Everything will come at a price.
 
The damage was done when Trump became the nominee. We're seeing some Republicans going beyond merely refusing to endorse him but leaving the party outright (or, at least, intending to sit at home in Nov.)
 
Electing big government Progressives to office is indeed bad for the country.

Unfortunately, this election, big government Progressives are at the top of the ticket for both mainstream parties. So we aren't really getting a choice, except in flavor - one is more corrupt, the other more crazy. Both will be disasters for the country.

Between the two, therefore, the question is: which one best sets the conditions for a return of Conservatism?

Hillary's incompetence and corruption will be blamed on Democrats and Liberalism. Trumps' will be blamed on Republicans and Conservatism. A Hillary Administration likely produces a GOP wave. A Trump administration likely produces a Democrat wave. A Hillary Administration will be reliably restrained by a GOP Congress. A Trump Administration will not. Instead, Conservatism will be tossed aside as the motivating ideology of the Republican party in favor of nationalism mixed with middle class socialism.

The worst thing that can happen in the 2016 POTUS race for either party, at this point, is that they win - but the consequences are starker for Conservatives.


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I haven't decided for whom I will vote as of yet. The reason? The Supreme Court. If Scalia had not died, and Ginsburg had not started acting like she's about to retire, I would be right there with you, exactly where you are. So basically, I agree with your logic and position. However, with the Supreme Court in play, which also puts the future of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th Amendments in play as well, I find myself torn. Short term, I feel that Trump may be less harmful to the long term survivability of our Constitutional rights and our Constitutional Republic, being that Hillary can change those via SCOTUS rulings by simply packing the court with Living Adaptive Document Justices, like Ginsburg and the other 3 Progressive justices, rather than Textualists like Scalia was.

That's my concern. I'm less concerned with loss of political control over the next 8 to 16 years or so, than I am with 20 to 40 years minimum (possibly a millennia) of progressives on the high court demolishing the foundation of our country and our way of life. However, as you point out, a Trump Presidency may make the GOP lose the House and the Senate in 2 to 4 years from now, which may only delay the reformation of the balance on the SCOTUS. Or would it? If Trump replaces Scalia and Ginsburg exits by choice or by natural causes, then the long term protection of the Constitution would be accomplished even if the GOP were to lose control of Congress 2 years and the White House in the next Presidential election.

Like I said, I'm still torn.
 
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Trump is the worst for our country, except for Hillary Clinton. I'm voting for Trump because he'll be less problematic than Hillary. But I'm not defending everything he does. If he goes off the reservation and does something stupid, I'm laying into him even harder than a Democrat.

Cruz will and has survived an orchestrated attack by Trump. It was a one time issue that will pass. Trump wasn't smart in attacking him the way he did. Cruz is savvy enough to block legislation Trump wants and might end up pushing Trump into a corner and giving up something Ted wants to get something Trump wants. There won't be any favors. Everything will come at a price.

If Cruz does what you say, he will be voted out. Did you not hear the booos. Trump if president is the leader of the party and Cruz will be out. Nobody in congress likes Cruz now.
 
I haven't decided for whom I will vote as of yet. The reason? The Supreme Court. If Scalia had not died, and Ginsburg had not started acting like she's about to retire, I would be right there with you, exactly where you are. So basically, I agree with your logic and position. However, with the Supreme Court in play, which also puts the future of the 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th, and 14th Amendments in play as well, I find myself torn. Short term, I feel that Trump may be less harmful to the long term survivability of our Constitutional rights and our Constitutional Republic, being that Hillary can change those via SCOTUS rulings by simply packing the court with Living Adaptive Document Justices, like Ginsburg and the other 3 Progressive justices, rather than Textualists like Scalia was.

That's my concern. I'm less concerned with loss of political control over the next 8 to 16 years or so, than I am with 20 to 40 years minimum (possibly a millennia) of progressives on the high court demolishing the foundation of our country and our way of life. However, as you point out, a Trump Presidency may make the GOP lose the House and the Senate in 2 to 4 years from now, which may only delay the reformation of the balance on the SCOTUS. Or would it? If Trump replaces Scalia and Ginsburg exits by choice or by natural causes, then the long term protection of the Constitution would be accomplished even if the GOP were to lose control of Congress 2 years and the White House in the next Presidential election.

Like I said, I'm still torn.

Hm. I would say I have approximately zero confidence in Trump being willing to go to the mat for conservative principles in his judicial appointments. As near as I can tell, we lost SCOTUS in the Indiana Primary.

It's not really a matter of whether we want big government Progressives being appointed to the Bench and spending their next decades undermining freedom over the next 4 years. That's baked in the cage at this point. It's whether we want Republicans to oppose them, or celebrate them. :(

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Electing big government Progressives to office is indeed bad for the country.

Unfortunately, this election, big government Progressives are at the top of the ticket for both mainstream parties. So we aren't really getting a choice, except in flavor - one is more corrupt, the other more crazy. Both will be disasters for the country.

Between the two, therefore, the question is: which one best sets the conditions for a return of Conservatism?

Hillary's incompetence and corruption will be blamed on Democrats and Liberalism. Trumps' will be blamed on Republicans and Conservatism. A Hillary Administration likely produces a GOP wave. A Trump administration likely produces a Democrat wave. A Hillary Administration will be reliably restrained by a GOP Congress. A Trump Administration will not. Instead, Conservatism will be tossed aside as the motivating ideology of the Republican party in favor of nationalism mixed with middle class socialism.

The worst thing that can happen in the 2016 POTUS race for either party, at this point, is that they win - but the consequences are starker for Conservatives.

The problem is that the primary process has priced out any independent candidate, long before we get to the general election. You can't win without a machine behind you, and to get a machine behind you, you have to sell out to the machine.
 
The problem is that the primary process has priced out any independent candidate, long before we get to the general election. You can't win without a machine behind you, and to get a machine behind you, you have to sell out to the machine.
Trump spent (estimate) about $20 on his primary. The alternative to allowing individual funding is the media picking our leaders. That appears to have happened for both parties this year, and I have to say, I'm not impressed with their selection.

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Then explain why Curz is so hated in Congress.

Because he's exposed the Republican's for supporting Democratic issues and claiming they didn't.
 
The damage was done when Trump became the nominee. We're seeing some Republicans going beyond merely refusing to endorse him but leaving the party outright (or, at least, intending to sit at home in Nov.)

You forgot the option of voting for Gary Johnson at the top of the ticket, and Republicans on the rest of the ballot.
 
A devastating trump ass whupping may energize the repub party to try and reinvent itself, and it really needs reinventing. But even if they do, who will vote for them? The tea party voters will not. In a sense, the repub party is NOT the problem. The problem is the selfish, racist, hateful, fundamentalist christian VOTERS. Regiggering the party at the top will NOT solve the problem that the voters have. Only a concerted effort to educate them on what is needed to govern effectively will bring them around, and I don't think the repubs have the intelligence and cajones to do it. I predict a permanent split, as I said earlier.

I'm betting YOU'RE not a Republican voter, generally.
 
I'm betting YOU'RE not a Republican voter, generally.

I used to be a republican, when they could tell the truth (mostly), had some fiscal balance, had consideration for the poor in the nation, when they worked with democrats and compromised in order to get things done. All that ended in 1994, with the Contract with America and Gingrich and Bill Kristol. Now they run congress, and they do nothing. Obama reached out, played golf with Boehner, and they totally rejected him. They had a $4 trillion, long term deficit reduction bill, but Boehner couldn't get his caucus to go along, and it went down the drain. I voted for Reagan twice, and Bush 41. Haven't voted repub since then. They changed, they became asses, and the party left me.
 
You forgot the option of voting for Gary Johnson at the top of the ticket, and Republicans on the rest of the ballot.

Hey, if conservatives do that, I'm all for it. I really don't like Clinton, but I really squared don't like Trump.

If they Lieberman him, wonderful. But then, there are Bernie or Bust people likely to do the same to Clinton.





If Trump is elected, I truly hope the whole thing was an act. I'm not so sure anymore.
 
I've been thinking about this. I do think either Trump or Clinton will be horrible presidents. So horrible that if Clinton wins that the Republicans will have a landslide midterm congressional election. Then with a decent candidate, not Trump like, they'll waltz into the White House and increase their margins in the House and senate to FDR type numbers to where the GOP will have free reign.

Of course the opposite is true if Trump wins. The American people will be so peeved at Trump they will give the Democrats total control of congress in 2018 and the White House and FDR type numbers where the Dems will have free reign.

Which ever party wins this election it will take them 20-30 years to win another their candidates are so bad this time around.

Not sure about that. I think it depends on how they view the Republican party with Hillary.

If they are the party of no as they were with Obama.. and constantly trying to shut down the government to defund planned parenthood and other BS we have been pulling.. I see a landslide for the democrats in the election.

If the republicans get ahead of Clinton and put forth healthcare bills that change obamacare, an bipartisan immigration bill, (no wall),., etc... they could end up winning in the midterms and then making her a one term president with the right candidate.

If Trump gets elected? I think you are spot on. Who knows though. He might surprise us. I am to young to remember Reagan.. (not saying he is a Reagan).. but didn't a whole lot of people think Reagan was just an actor?
 
This is a powerful message, and I notice you're a fellow Texas resident. For those who think Cruz ended his career, the Branch Trumpidians words do not match the actions of their Dear Leader. Trump has set up a super PAC targeting Cruz, so he must be worried. See link below:

Trump Seeks To Set Up SuperPAC's To Hurt Cruz And Kasich, #Unity | RedState

LOL That is really funny and so predictable by Trump. He never just get's mad....he gets even. Such a great temperament for the CIC. What a smuck he is.
 
Are CONSERVATIVES better off? In the long run, yes. A trump win means a complete destruction of the GOP, which is a win for any true conservative.
 
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