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In light of all the Trayvon Martin hullabaloo I'm thinking it might be a good idea to discuss the ins and outs of being armed and approaching various "weird" situations.
I'm pretty sure that we've discussed carrying in public before and pretty much everyone agreed that being armed generally made them more aware of what they were doing. After all, for most of us the LAST thing we want to do is pull the trigger so we tend to look for ways to do things which will lessen that possibility, right?
Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? I don't want to turn this into a Zimmerman thing but he says he saw something out of place and we all know what happened from there so based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?
I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.
That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.
By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.
At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.
Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.
I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who carry, what criteria do you look at before you decide to get involved and then how involved do you get?
By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.
At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in his car.
This was stupid:
Sorry, but that's what 911's for. You were reckless to approach his car.
In light of all the Trayvon Martin hullabaloo I'm thinking it might be a good idea to discuss the ins and outs of being armed and approaching various "weird" situations.
I'm pretty sure that we've discussed carrying in public before and pretty much everyone agreed that being armed generally made them more aware of what they were doing. After all, for most of us the LAST thing we want to do is pull the trigger so we tend to look for ways to do things which will lessen that possibility, right?
Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? I don't want to turn this into a Zimmerman thing but he says he saw something out of place and we all know what happened from there so based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?
I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.
That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.
By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.
At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.
Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.
I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who carry, what criteria do you look at before you decide to get involved and then how involved do you get?
This was stupid:
Sorry, but that's what 911's for. You were reckless to approach his car.
Purely situational and based on someones comfort level. It may be stupid for some others to do what he did, but in his case, it was the dispatcher that asked him to get a better look. Personally, I would have looked too on the assumption someone needed help. I can't stomach the idea of letting someone die because I am afraid of the possibility it may turn into a bad situation. Seems I have seen a rash of people letting other people die because they were afraid to get involved and would rather wait for emergency services but it seems that is slowly being ingrained into our society.
:lamo
I appreciate the criticism but I have had a decent amount of opportunity to do that kind of thing when I was a cop in the service. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that just anybody do it but I was careful to approach from a point where he couldn't easily see me and I could see him. If he'd done anything I could have been well out of the way before anything funky happened.
Well were you armed?In light of all the Trayvon Martin hullabaloo I'm thinking it might be a good idea to discuss the ins and outs of being armed and approaching various "weird" situations.
I'm pretty sure that we've discussed carrying in public before and pretty much everyone agreed that being armed generally made them more aware of what they were doing. After all, for most of us the LAST thing we want to do is pull the trigger so we tend to look for ways to do things which will lessen that possibility, right?
Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? I don't want to turn this into a Zimmerman thing but he says he saw something out of place and we all know what happened from there so based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?
I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.
That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.
By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.
At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.
Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.
I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who carry, what criteria do you look at before you decide to get involved and then how involved do you get?
Well were you armed?
I don't get involved at all unless I think someone is about to die. I'll call the cops and report what I see, and I guess if I was some kind of neighborhood watch I probably might get out and walk down the side walk or something, but I'm not physically involving myself absent an immediate threat.In light of all the Trayvon Martin hullabaloo I'm thinking it might be a good idea to discuss the ins and outs of being armed and approaching various "weird" situations.
I'm pretty sure that we've discussed carrying in public before and pretty much everyone agreed that being armed generally made them more aware of what they were doing. After all, for most of us the LAST thing we want to do is pull the trigger so we tend to look for ways to do things which will lessen that possibility, right?
Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? I don't want to turn this into a Zimmerman thing but he says he saw something out of place and we all know what happened from there so based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?
I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.
That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.
By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.
At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.
Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.
I guess what I'm asking is, for those of you who carry, what criteria do you look at before you decide to get involved and then how involved do you get?
I'm pretty sure the reason IL hasn't been issuing CCWs is something other than they were awaiting permission. I think the opposite is true, that they've always had the obligation to make permits available and have been braking the law by refusing to issue permits. IL has always had the go-ahead, they just didn't want to. It's not that IL has finaly gotten the green light, it's that the state of IL is having CCW forced down it's throat against against it's will, while the state maintains strong objections....Illinois has just gotten the okay to issue CCW's.....
I'm pretty sure the reason IL hasn't been issuing CCWs is something other than they were awaiting permission. I think the opposite is true, that they've always had the obligation to make permits available and have been braking the law by refusing to issue permits. IL has always had the go-ahead, they just didn't want to. It's not that IL has finaly gotten the green light, it's that the state of IL is having CCW forced down it's throat against against it's will, while the state maintains strong objections.
Yes. I'm pretty much always armed while at the office.
Easy solution: Don't require permits, and eliminate 99% of all gun-free zones. Anything less than Constitutional Carry where the only piece of paperwork you ever need is some proof of citizenship is an intolerable infringement.Oh, I agree. The state only acted when SCOTUS forced its hand. As it is, we'll have to wait 6 months before applying while the state gets all the forms and procedures in place. What.A.Joke.
It's my theory - formed after years of reading similar stories to the OP online about guns and situations - that people who are armed have a sense of security in which they imagine they can handle whatever tense situation might pop up - and it's even their duty - to investigate matters. (Perhaps they naturally have this sense and thus they're more likely to own firearms, though)
Without being armed - individuals are much less likely to do so out of fear for their safety.
Unarmed individuals are much more sensible in that they will not poke a hornets nest, so to speak.
If someone's going to carry a firearm they should still realize that they're not suddenly *the* law or *the* only one capable of handling situations that come up. They shouldn't let it go to their head and become cocky and full of nothing but testosterone and ego. . . because that seems to be what happens = guns tend to give people a sense of empowerment, and only the good ones don't abuse it.
Imagine if the homeless guy living in his car drinking off some beer was high on crank, instead, and squirrelly - pulled a gun because you were snooping around his car. That could have easily gone from 'no big deal' to 'trouble'
Easy solution: Don't require permits, and eliminate 99% of all gun-free zones. Anything less than Constitutional Carry where the only piece of paperwork you ever need is some proof of citizenship is an intolerable infringement.
...Now, sometimes you just happen to be somewhere that things aren't quite right. Maybe you've noticed someone acting weird or a vehicle that's just out of place or something along those lines. What do you do? ....based on that kind of "weird" thing occurring in your vicinity how do you usually handle it?
I'll give an example: I'm often at the office quite late and am usually one of the last ones to leave the complex. We've had a number of break ins over the years, a few other incidents including one gun incident (a guy on a bike pulled a gun on the wife of one of the other business owners). Anyway, one night I noticed an unfamiliar car parked in the lot and it looked like someone was just sitting there. I could hear the radio but it was dark enough that I couldn't really see whether there was someone in the car. I took note of the make of the car and the license plate then headed out. The next morning the car was gone and nobody had been broken into so I didn't sweat it.
That night I saw the car again and there was definitely someone there but, again, he wasn't doing anything. I figured that maybe some drunk from the bar down the street had decided to sleep it off in the parking lot but this time I ran an errand and came back about 15 min later to see if anything had changed. Both the car and the guy were still where I'd left them so I let it go. The next day the car was gone again but one of the other guys who works late asked if I'd seen the car so we compared notes. Sure enough that night he showed up again.
By this time I figured that we really needed to see what was going on so I walked up and took a good look inside. The guy was laying down in the front seat (the seat was reclined all the way) and appeared to be asleep so I knocked on the window but I got no response. I figured that it was a good time to call it in because for all I knew the guy was dead. I was back a good 10 yards from the car at the time and the dispatcher asked me if I could give him any more information on what the guy was doing so I moved back up to the car. When I got to the drivers window the guy must have noticed I was there and he sat up.
At this point I was only half listening to the dispatcher as I was FAR more focused on what the guy was doing. Apparently the dispatcher was just listening to me because I asked the guy if he was OK and he just kind of mumbled. I told the dispatcher that he was alive and seemed OK but that I couldn't really get any information out of him. That's about the time that the FD showed up and they handled things from there. The guy was apparently just really, really drunk and kind of lived in the car.
Anyway, the point of all this is that although it occurred to me that while I might be justified in going all tactical on the guy from the first I noticed him it wasn't really necessary. On the other hand I couldn't really just ignore the situation either because for all I knew the guy needed medical help or mental help. It also crossed my mind that if he was messed up in the head he might decide to change his car for one of the offices during the night.
I appreciate the criticism but I have had a decent amount of opportunity to do that kind of thing when I was a cop in the service. I wouldn't necessarily recommend that just anybody do it but I was careful to approach from a point where he couldn't easily see me and I could see him.
I guess in a nutshell, if someone needs aid or medical help, contact 911 and do what you can. In your case, again this is purely situational, if I were armed, I would be far more likely to be willing to go to someone's aid after calling police than not. The guy could have been having a seizure/heart attack/insulin shock. Being armed, I would be willing to get closer to figure out the situation was. I refuse to allow myself to second guess going to someone's aid while I am armed simply because of what happened in the Martin/Zimmerman case. That was a completely different scenario. Why let some biggots rioting in the street over that case affect my decision to help someone?
I don't get involved at all unless I think someone is about to die. I'll call the cops and report what I see, and I guess if I was some kind of neighborhood watch I probably might get out and walk down the side walk or something, but I'm not physically involving myself absent an immediate threat.
If I were Z that night, having already taken initiative to keep an eye on the neighborhood, I would have gotten out of my car and walked up the sidewalk a bit too. But I'm not Z, I have different life experiences Z does not have, like military training and a deployment that put me in some stressful situations. While I would likely have gotten out of my car also, it would only be with a working flashlight; I may have faced my car towards where I was headed if it was dark to put the headlights in that direction; and I know for certain that I would have started my voice recorder application on my droid before leaving my car.
If Chicago alone had 500 homicides while my whole state just had 15 homicides, then I don't see why you disagree with me.I completely disagree with you. But I live in the big city, and you live in South Dakota. Your state had 15 homicides last year. Just the City of Chicago had 500.
If Chicago alone had 500 homicides while my whole state just had 15 homicides, then I don't see why you disagree with me.
Also, it's important to note the difference between homicide and murder, because the whole point of carrying a gun is so that you can commit homicide when you are justified. We want a certain level of "gun violence" because we want rapists shot and killed. We want a certain level of "gun violence" because we want home intruders shot and killed.
Now that you're caught up with us, maybe you would like to contribute to the conversation.She is pointing out the discrepancies in size and density of population between South Dakota and Chicago.
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