Anyone notice....

[doughgirl]

Christopher said, “I believe before we ban abortion we should lift up women and assist those who are in absolute desperation.”

Women? We should lift up Christ in this whole mess. Christ would not be for abortion Christopher. To say that we shouldn’t ban an act of extreme child abuse, the dismemberment of a living child of God is unbelievable especially for a Christian to say? That act alone would save lives.
I just do not understand your views on this. What do you think Christ is thinking when He watches every abortion take place?

Abortion should be banned……..then we should begin to look to those in absolute desperation. They can be helped and should be helped. Can you help a child who is about to be dismembered?

‘The Republicans are no better. Within the next few years it's going to hit the fan and record corruption in high places will be revealed.’

Maybe, maybe not. BUT the Republican platform is still pro-life and they are against partial birth abortion. Votes count and they have a pro-life voting record. They Democrats do not. End of story.

I truly believe most politicians are corrupt. They talk about Republicans being filthy rich and corrupt….if you looked into the pocket books of the Democrats in high office, Kerry, Rockerfeller, Kennedy…..and look at the supporters who say only the rich are Republican….look at the supporters of the Democratic party in Hollywood... Think Michael Moore and Babwa Streisand and those who helped campaign for Kerry were poor? Those in control of the Democratic Party are filthy rich. BOTH PARTIES ARE RICH. Both parties have done under illegal things....remember Nixon, Clinton, Sandy Berger?

Democrats better change their tune; they better really look to what the American public wants, and where their hearts are. Politicians like Kennedy make them look terribly mad. This country sees great contradictions in what they have stood for. Kennedy stands up and talks about the morals of Alito? Look at Kennedy himself? Moral?

Can you say Chappaquiddick Teddy? Remember the Harvard cheating scandal where Teddy got another student to take his Spanish exam for him?
This big-time drinker and skirt chaser hasn’t got the right to stand up and condemn anyone. If this man is the conscience of the Democratic Party, its moral authority, then they are in trouble.
I am not a Republican as I said and although I think Bush is a godly man I do not like a lot of what he has done. I do admire that he takes no crap from anyone and he does what he thinks is best, whether it is or not.

My father is a staunch Democrat. My mother was a staunch REpublican. My dad after hearing Kennedy the other night slam Alito like he did got him so upset I though he was going to explode. Democrats are even getting sick of it. He said the Democrats of today are certainly not like the Democrats in my generation.

I happen to live in a border state. Neither party gives a crap about securing are borders. NEITHER PARTY. They want to let as many aliens in so that they might get votes.

“Your words only show your political bias. It's because you're more Republican than Pro-Life.”

And honestly Chris you have no political bias? Hmmmmm I am a Christian first Chris. And as a Christian I am for LIFE. I’m so sorry you think that of me.

“They are quite vocal. It just isn't something the media is willing to carry. Do your homework.”

Crap...... The media is biased towards liberals……..and Democrats. That is fact. Ne homework necessary. I have worked in three states with “Right to Life” and I could count on one hand the high profile Democrats that are making a difference. Most do not want to be associated with pro-life groups whether they are pro-life or not because they have to remain pro-choice to keep voters happy. If there were high profile Demos working towards this the press would pick it up.

“If you REALLY believe abortion is "murder"...you have to at least advocate jail time for abortion. If I beat a dog in the street with a baseball bat I could up to five years in prison and a $5,000 fine; the maximum penalty for the misdemeanor is a year in jail and a $2,500 fine. Are you meaning to tell me you are against abortion...but you don't think an unborn child is of greater value than a dog?”

I can tell in this statement you do not think abortion is murder. I sensed this all along but I was hoping I was wrong. That breaks my heart. You are a pastor.

And I never said anywhere Chris that woman, doctors, nurses did not deserve to pay for what they have done in regards to abortion. We have never discussed this issue.

Bottom line Chris you only want to see abortion reduced and not banned. You are pro-choice on this just say it. As long as abortion is reduced oh well…too bad about the other small percent murdered. Am I right?

You are the one who keeps bringing up political parties…..you are the one who is obsessed with them not me. I think we should discuss the moral implications of abortion.

“You're right about the Democratic Party not being "Pro-Life". However, my point is that most Democrats are not "Pro-Abortion".”

I disagree.

“Most up and coming Democrats are more moderate and are either Pro-Life or are willing to support greater regulation of abortion.”

Willing to support REGUALTIONS? So let some children be slaughtered as long as the masses aren’t? It’s not about regulations Chris. It is about the truth.

Anyone who could vote yes to allow partial birth abortion SHOULD BE REPLACED IMMEDIATELY. There goes the entire Democratic party. Oh well.


This comment takes the cake........

“Since I have never been pregnant, had a child, or had an abortion I can see it without emotion with pure logic. Your proving my point....Mrs. Irrational.”

Thanks Chris I knew true colors would eventually come out. You did not fool me one bit. You are like the majority of pastors around the country who say one thing and do nothing. You look at it with no emotion because it isn’t important. Period. Your Democratic Party is important. You are a party of regulations.........that is it.

As Christians we dare not remain neutral in this battle. You are luke warm. Elijah challeneged Baal on Mt. Carmel. Our Lord backed down Satan in the desert. The apostle Paul took on the pagan philosophers on Mars Hill. In the same way, God’s servants today must rise up to oppose Satans strategies. Remaining luke warm and sittin on the fence will do nothing.

We are facing this issue in this country because the Bible believing pastors said and did nothing about abortion. You seem to be proof of this.

Question for you………If the Lord appeared before you right now this very minute and asked you this simple question………….Chris how could you allow even one child of mine to be slaughtered by dismembering it?

What would you say?

Yes, you are an eloquent debater……..so what? You sit the fence so you will please both sides of this issue. You should go into politics.

A child can see that abortion is wrong and murder. It’s not about how well we come off or how good we make ourselves look……it’s about being Gods children and doing the right thing. Its about glorifiying HIM and spreading his word. Spreading the truth no matter who thinks your wrong.

AND THE TRUTH IS……..ABORTION IS MURDER.

I would think that as a man of God you would see this.

 

[Felicity]

Well said doughgirl!

 

[doughgirl]

Thank You sister Felicity and God Bless

 

[mixedmedia]

Thank You sister Felicity and God Bless

You guys may be in total agreement, but fact is the American public will find ideas such as CH's and other pro-life Democrats to be far more palatable, realistic and productive than your own extreme views on women, sexuality and abortion. If it weren't so sad it would be funny to see how much you will tap dance around the plight of many American women - which is at the core of the abortion issue - to appease your myopic and inadequate agenda.

 

[Felicity]

If it weren't so sad it would be funny to see how much you will tap dance around the plight of many American women - which is at the core of the abortion issue - to appease your myopic and inadequate agenda.

Last I checked...the forum topic was ABORTION--not "the plight of women." Yeah the two issues are related--but the only group that is myopic is the one that fails to SEE the human who suffers the most injustice in an abortion--many of those won't even admit the fetus IS an individual human--that's not myopic--that's simply BLIND denial.

 

[mixedmedia]

Last I checked...the forum topic was ABORTION--not "the plight of women." Yeah the two issues are related--but the only group that is myopic is the one that fails to SEE the human who suffers the most injustice in an abortion--many of those won't even admit the fetus IS an individual human--that's not myopic--that's simply BLIND denial.

Yes, only the myopic can isolate the fetus from the plight of the women who carry them. Abortion is an issue inseparable from that of women and preventing unwanted preganancies.

 

[doughgirl]

Mixedmedia said, “You guys may be in total agreement, but fact is the American public will find ideas such as CH's and other pro-life Democrats to be far more palatable, realistic and productive than your own extreme views on women, sexuality and abortion. If it weren't so sad it would be funny to see how much you will tap dance around the plight of many American women - which is at the core of the abortion issue - to appease your myopic and inadequate agenda.”

We are in total agreement that abortion is taking a life... that killing a human living creature by dismemberment is just wrong.

Christopher is heavily involved with the Democratic Party so it seems. That's fine. But I do not see this issue as a war between the Republicans and Democrats as he does. He is out to win for the sake of the Democrats…………not the unborn child. I don’t care who does it……….the point I was trying to make is that the Democratic party so far has done nothing. Their voting record speaks for itself. They are pro-choice/abortion….end of story. And until someone with high visibility in the party speaks up or they do something for the cause of ending abortion… the American public will see them for what they are.

For me this is not a game. We who are pro-life should all be working towards one goal……ending abortion. I would work along side any democrat who wanted to do that. I would work with anyone.

Tap dance? Honey the Democrats are the ones tap dancing so it seems. They are doing and trying everything to change their image in order to win the next election. You will see in the next year politicians change stances on everything in order to get elected.

Mixedmedia, how about the plight of the unborn child? Like Felicity said, that is what this thread is about. Abortion is ending a life, that is what abortion is all about. ENDING A LIFE.

You really don’t give a rip about that issue do you? This is NOT AN ISSUE THAT ONLY INCLUDES THE WOMAN. This issue also is about a living human being that eventually gets slaughtered alive. To you that just seems so acceptable doesn’t it?

 

[mixedmedia]

Mixedmedia, how about the plight of the unborn child? Like Felicity said, that is what this thread is about. Abortion is ending a life, that is what abortion is all about. ENDING A LIFE.

You really don’t give a rip about that issue do you? This is NOT AN ISSUE THAT ONLY INCLUDES THE WOMAN. This issue also is about a living human being that eventually gets slaughtered alive. To you that just seems so acceptable doesn’t it?

Sorry it took me a while to respond......I didn't forget!

The woman is the one carrying the child, thus the likelihood of a pregnancy ending in abortion begins and ends with her. Whether you like it or not the circumstances of the mother are the circumstances of the child. Thus I believe it is imperative that we work harder to ensure sound sex education and free and easy access to birth control to PREVENT unwanted pregnancies as much as possible. You imagine a world without abortion. I imagine a world where abortion is obsolete. Now you must realize that, in your world, abortion will still go on. Don't you think it makes more sense to nip the problem in the bud, so to speak. Rather than dictate the outcome of something that didn't have to happen in the first place?

And, as I had to point out to jamesrage just the other day, you do not know my stance on abortion, so you can save your histrionics for steen, okay?

 

[steen]

And, as I had to point out to jamesrage just the other day, you do not know my stance on abortion, so you can save your histrionics for steen, okay?

GAWD! Is she STILL doing that? :roll:

 

[mixedmedia]

GAWD! Is she STILL doing that? :roll:

Sorry dude. I was typing faster than I was thinking. I don't wish that on you. :3oops:

The smilies are stuck in a prolonged state of inertia. Is time standing still?

 

[ChristopherHall]

doughgirl,

Sorry for the late response. I was out of town.

Doughgirl, you and I both would love to see abortion banned, ended, never seen again, never happening, gone, banished, ....forever. (You'll forget this significant fact when it suits you to paint me as a Pro-Choicer so you don't have to confront my points.)

If there were any serious chance of banning abortion on the table I would support it whole heartedly regardless as to which Party was sponsoring it.

My point is that I really don't see abortion being absolutely banned anytime in the near future. But I do see opportunities for Pro-Life Democrats and Pro-Life Republicans to work together by helping women. First priority should be prevention. We need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That means a sex education that focuses on abstinance and also gives information on birth control.

For women facing unwanted or crisis pregnancies I believe the Democrats for Life have a plan that the American people would accept. I believe these measures would reduce the abortion rate significantly.

Doughgirl, I do believe in lifting up Christ Jesus...by loving and supporting BOTH women and the unborn child. You asked me what I thought Jesus would think. I don't believe Jesus would support abortion. However according to my Bible I never saw Jesus protesting and seeking to change the laws of Rome. I ancient Rome it was legal to abandon an unwanted child and allow it to die of exposure. Jesus never mentioned this. In addition Paul never mentioned this Roman abomination. Neither Paul nor Jesus engaged in political activism. They did two things. They changed hearts by preaching the gospel and saught to teach people to love and care for one another. I believe that we must change hearts and minds through the power of the gospel. In addition I believe we need to care for those women who desperately need assistance. You and I both know that 2 out of 3 women who procure abortions live below the poverty level. Daycare, health insurance, food stamps, WIC, SCHIP, etc. would lift up these frightened women and give them help that many of them so desperately need. Address the issues women face and we will save many many lives.

For the record, I'm not a pastor. I am a minister. Big difference. There are about 16 of us serving under my Pastor. Our church is solidly Pro-Life. We are fundamentalist Pentecostal.

You never addressed something I have repeatedly brought up. I would like your input on it, or at least some input from some of our other readers...

In many Pro-Life countries around the world abortion is banned and the abortion rates are the highest in the world (expl. Chile, Peru). It is evident that banning abortion had little to no effect in these countries seeing that the abortion rates actually increased after abortion was banned. How do you explain this? Is this what you want for America?

In many Pro-Choice counties around the world abortion may be legal but they have provided much needed care and assistance for women facing crisis or unwanted pregnancies with a social safety net(expl. Belgium and Netherlands). In many of these countries the abortion rate is the lowest in the world (expl. Belgium and Netherlands). How do you explain this? Seeing that abortion will most likely not be banned in the near future, I believe most Americans would support such measures. Would this not be good for America and save lives in the immediate future?

It becomes obvious that even if abortion is banned the abortion rate may not change one bit until we address the issues women face when confronted with an unwanted or crisis pregnancy.

I think that's fair.

 

[steen]

Sorry dude. I was typing faster than I was thinking. I don't wish that on you. :3oops:

It's more that I got all of those guys on ignore and have had them so for a long time.

 

[steen]

My point is that I really don't see abortion being absolutely banned anytime in the near future. But I do see opportunities for Pro-Life Democrats and Pro-Life Republicans to work together by helping women. First priority should be prevention. We need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That means a sex education that focuses on abstinance and also gives information on birth control.

And you know what, pro-choice democrats will agree to that as well.

 

[doughgirl]

"We need to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That means a sex education that focuses on abstinance and also gives information on birth control."

I agree. And I believe in teaching abstinance. You think the Democratic party would embrace this? I am not so sure.

"I Have Seen the Future of the Democratic Party and It Is Both Pro-Choice and Pro-Life"

Well I don't think you can be both if the subject is abortion.

(http://www.tikkun.org/magazine/tik0505/document.2005-04-22.8728576767)

""The Democrats need to make a place for pro-lifers within the party. The Democratic Party’s intolerance of dissent on the abortion issue erodes our credibility when we claim to be the party of inclusion and diversity. Republicans have been willing to run pro-choice candidates like Rudy Giuliani and Arnold Schwarzenegger and have become the party of the “big tent.” Meanwhile Democrats, who famously barred Pennsylvania Governor Robert Casey from speaking at the Democratic National Convention in 1992 because of his pro-life views, have only closed ranks. Recently Dick Gephardt and Dennis Kucinich joined the long line of Democrats required by their party to switch from a pro-life to a pro-choice position in order to run for national office. And, Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe refused to allow even a link to the Democrats for Life website to be included among the 260 links on the DNC’s website.

Pro-life Democrats are concerned that we’re losing our majority because of our message on abortion. In the 1977-78 Congress, four years after Roe v. Wade, Democrats held a majority of 292 seats, which included 125 pro-lifers. As the 2004 presidential election neared, Democrats comprised only 204 of 435 seats, with just 28 pro-lifers. Democrats for Life of America attributes at least part of this slide to our party’s un-nuanced position on abortion."

What concerns me is this.... That Democrats running for office will change their views on abortion in order to win elections.
Clinton was once pro-life, so was Gore and Jesse Jackson.......they all changed to take pro-choice stances.

The Democrats lost the past elections because of the moral majority and I believe primarily their stance on abortion, especially partial birth abortion. They better silence people like Kenndy and Barbra Boxer and such if they ever stand a chance of winning.

I wish that the Republicans and the Democrats could work together. And I believe we do on local levels. I work with Democrats, Republicans and Independents at Right to Life............but as we see on television these two parties hate each other on a national level. I do not see them working together very effectively which is too bad.

 

[ChristopherHall]

I agree. And I believe in teaching abstinance. You think the Democratic party would embrace this? I am not so sure.

Most of the Democrats I know would support this. They want the focus to be abstinance. What they do not want is "abstinance only" sex education. Most know that human nature being what it is many students will choose to experiment. For those who will choose to experiment it would be better for them to know how to protect themselves than leave them wide open for disease and pregnancy. I personally would like to also see more information regarding the failures of such protections just so students know that there is still a chance for pregnancy or infection even if protections are used.

What concerns me is this.... That Democrats running for office will change their views on abortion in order to win elections.
Clinton was once pro-life, so was Gore and Jesse Jackson.......they all changed to take pro-choice stances.

I agree. They compromised their first love convictions to become more electable. It's really sad. The Democratic Party will wonder in the wilderness until it returns to it's first love.

The Democrats lost the past elections because of the moral majority and I believe primarily their stance on abortion, especially partial birth abortion. They better silence people like Kenndy and Barbra Boxer and such if they ever stand a chance of winning.

I agree. Kennedy should be in prison and Boxer needs to come back to earth.

I wish that the Republicans and the Democrats could work together. And I believe we do on local levels. I work with Democrats, Republicans and Independents at Right to Life............but as we see on television these two parties hate each other on a national level. I do not see them working together very effectively which is too bad.

Yeah. I agree.