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Any thought that maybe the entire 2A is a massive mistake?

Shrink726

Shrink726

The tolerant left? I'm the intolerant left.
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Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
 
Shrink726 said:
Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
Click to expand...
No, the populace must be armed, but used are the words well regulated militia, infringe, keep and bear, but missing is buy, how to procure weapons, is part of the right specifically omitted.

Infringe means your bill must promote gun ownership.
 
Shrink726 said:
Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
Click to expand...
We had just fought a war with Britain, and were still unsure of both British and French ambitions down the road. It made perfect sense in a world where there was no state police, no national guard, real local police department, wolves, cougars, bears, and other dangers, as well as criminals, potential slave rebellions and hostile native American tribes close by throughout our southern states, western frontier, I would never have voted to ratify without it. Now of course you are right, this is insanity

Our problem is not just the second amendment, its our total inability to pass any constitutional reform. We will never amend our constitution again!
 
Exquisitor said:
Not at all, to deter Congress, foreign aggression, aliens and in case of collapse or calamity.

Historically disarming the public has been the road to totalitarianism.
Click to expand...

Chuckle.

I'm not going to bother with the rest.
 
Shrink726 said:
Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
Click to expand...
Far as I can tell the 2A is entirely consistent with sensible gun regulations: Training/licensing for ownership, background checks, safe home storage regulations, requirement of membership at a registered local shooting range etc. It literally says "well regulated militia," not poorly regulated lone wolf gun ownership.

The issue is the partisanship, the use of it as a 'divide and rule' wedge issue that the donor class don't much care about one way or the other and (I've come to strongly suspect) the understanding among Republicans that gun proliferation harms black people at a far greater rate both in terms of criminal violence and in killings by a stressed-out fearful police force.
 
Shrink726 said:
Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
Click to expand...
Just curious, do you offer “thoughts and prayers” to those who die by violent means other than a gun?
 
I like to half-joke that if conservatives really cared about the intent of the Founders then they'd argue 2A applies only to the 18th century firearms.
 
Artymoon said:
Just curious, do you offer “thoughts and prayers” to those who die by violent means other than a gun?
Click to expand...
WTF does that have to do with the intent my OP?
 
Mithrae said:
Far as I can tell the 2A is entirely consistent with sensible gun regulations: Training/licensing for ownership, background checks, safe home storage regulations, requirement of membership at a registered local shooting range etc. It literally says "well regulated militia," not poorly regulated lone wolf gun ownership.

The issue is the partisanship, the use of it as a 'divide and rule' wedge issue that the donor class don't much care about one way or the other and (I've come to strongly suspect) the understanding among Republicans that gun proliferation harms black people at a far greater rate both in terms of criminal violence and in killings by a stressed-out fearful police force.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, there was this one decision https://www.britannica.com/event/District-of-Columbia-v-Heller that really complicated life for states and Congress. It basically nullified that well regulated militia phrase from having any legal significance.
 
btthegreat said:
Unfortunately, there was this one decision https://www.britannica.com/event/District-of-Columbia-v-Heller that really complicated life for states and Congress. It basically nullified that well regulated militia phrase from having any legal significance.
Click to expand...
Yeah, granting nine politically-appointed and thereafter largely unaccountable folks the power to make or break the nation's laws might not have been the best idea :unsure: But that's not so much a problem with the 2A.
 
Shrink726 said:
Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
Click to expand...

Unregulated absolutist 2A is a mistake because no reasonable person expects absolutist positions on something as serious as firearms.
I own firearms and I expect them to be regulated somewhat.
 
Shrink726 said:
Sadly I'm convinced that nothing will ever be done to rectify what our FF's, who are incorrectly and tragically viewed as virtual deities, did to us by including this goddamned turd in the Bill of Rights. I cut them some slack because CLEARLY their intent was to provide for a national defense at a time when there were no standing armies and no means of shooting any more than one person every minute or two. They had no conception of weapons that routinely can fire hundreds of rounds a minute essentially endlessly.

But the only solution is to repeal the 2A lock, stock and barrel...something which has zero chance of happening so I don't want to hear one friggin' word about tragedies, hopes and prayers or any other bullshit that is as disingenuous as anything can be when the solution is right under our goddamned noses.

Otherwise I'd suggest that our right wing nut jobs just embrace what they've brought upon us.

THIS IS NOT "A TRAGEDY," THIS IS COMPLETELY PREDICTABLE AND IS GUARANTEED TO HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN UNTIL PEOPLE EXTRACT THEIR HEADS FROM THEIR ASSES AND REPEAL THE 2A.
Click to expand...

Gun control was a nonpartisan issue until the late 1970s. Nixon favored gun control. So did Reagan when he was governor of CA in the 1960s. Even the NRA backed the 1968 gun control law passed by Congress, before the NRA became the evil white supremacist organization that it is today.

It wasn't until the late 1970s, when the NRA was led by a convicted murderer named Harlon Bronson Carter, that everything changed. The NRA endorsed a Presidential candidate for the first time in 1980 -- Ronald Reagan. And this is also when the whole NRA Second Amendment propaganda machine began. And Republicans have been repeating this NRA bullshit ever since for their gullible, easily duped voters.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Unregulated absolutist 2A is a mistake because no reasonable person expects absolutist positions on something as serious as firearms.
I own firearms and I expect them to be regulated somewhat.
Click to expand...
As much as I know there are many responsible gun owners, we no longer have the luxury of allowing the average citizen to own ANY firearms of any kind.

It's like saying "I know smoking is dangerous but my aunt Tilly smoked four packs a day and lived to 110." Who cares, they're clearly deadly and should be banned right along with guns. Again, it'll never happen, but it should.
 
Shrink726 said:
WTF does that have to do with the intent my OP?
Click to expand...
You launched into a diatribe about gun tragedies and I was just curious if you were as passionate about other violent deaths or if your anger ended with guns. I ask because most people offer up some sort of moral outrage against 2A yet seem to care more about the manner of death rather than the death itself.
 
Shrink726 said:
As much as I know there are many responsible gun owners, we no longer have the luxury of allowing the average citizen to own ANY firearms of any kind.

It's like saying "I know smoking is dangerous but my aunt Tilly smoked four packs a day and lived to 110." Who cares, they're clearly deadly and should be banned right along with guns. Again, it'll never happen, but it should.
Click to expand...

Where's this, in France?
 
Artymoon said:
You launched into a diatribe about gun tragedies and I was just curious if you were as passionate about other violent deaths or if your anger ended with guns. I ask because most people offer up some sort of moral outrage against 2A yet seem to care more about the manner of death rather than the death itself.
Click to expand...

Because the manner of death does matter....gun deaths are preventable. And guns kill people easily and quickly.

What's your point?
 
Shrink726 said:
As much as I know there are many responsible gun owners, we no longer have the luxury of allowing the average citizen to own ANY firearms of any kind.

It's like saying "I know smoking is dangerous but my aunt Tilly smoked four packs a day and lived to 110." Who cares, they're clearly deadly and should be banned right along with guns. Again, it'll never happen, but it should.
Click to expand...

As much as I agree…

You have a major problem in the Republican Party. They take massive money from the NRA and then do the NRA’s bidding. As well as the brainwashed conservative base. Any Republican that is perceived as anti-2A will be primaried out of office so fast.

So, you need to elect progressive Democrats in order to have any hope at all. And that’s progressive Democrats. Centrists will let Republicans water down a gun safety bill all while getting 0 votes from them when it goes to floor.

So, since we won’t be killing the filibuster any time soon, you’ll need a super majority of a Democratic makeup with all the centrists gone.

And then it has to not get struck down by the biggest right wing court of our lives.

Not gonna happen.
 
"An ABC News article about the survey pointed out that the U.S. has "less than 5% of the world's population, but 40% of the world's civilian-owned guns." Given the ongoing frequency of gun violence in the United States, particularly gun-enabled suicides and mass shootings in schools, places of worship, and businesses, many people believe that gun laws should be revised and tightened. However, gun control is a highly politicized issue in the U.S., which makes nationwide reforms difficult to pass."
I don't think anything is going to change

There IS one way that change would be easy> If streets and Malls/stores shootings start skyrocketing in the sense that people won't hardly go out anywhere...and
therefore stop visiting restaurants, Malls, movies and stores, THAT'S when the powers that be will not like the profit revenues dropping, then change will happen.
Same old shit...money or lack of money talks
 
Artymoon said:
You launched into a diatribe about gun tragedies and I was just curious if you were as passionate about other violent deaths or if your anger ended with guns. I ask because most people offer up some sort of moral outrage against 2A yet seem to care more about the manner of death rather than the death itself.
Click to expand...
Because guns account for over 95% of all criminally violent deaths and 99.9% of all mass fatality deaths.

And I never, ever, offer "prayers," for anything because I'm not a superstitious idiot who believes in sky fairies.
 
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