Anti Gun Candidate Gets Robbed

[US Conservative]

It's very difficult to get a handgun permit in my area. I'm not sure if it's the same everywhere, but you have to go through the chief of police and he personally approves applications, and I've heard he is very particular on who he approves. It all depends on where you live in Massachusetts though.

Want a gun license in Massachusetts? Much depends on where you live - Boston.com

Only the elite get them here in California. Its good to know our rights to keep AND bear arms shall not be infringed, huh.

 

[rocket88]

I never said liberals can't support the second amendment. Generalities are useful tools and allow us to recognize the patterns we instinctively do.

Progressives are typically NOT amenable 2nd A rights.

Ah, generalities. The last refuge of the intellectually lazy....

 

[ChrisL]

Ah, generalities. The last refuge of the intellectually lazy....

Well there is truth to that statement. We deal in terms of generalities for the most part, and although there are some liberals who are supportive of gun rights, there are more who are not or who support strict gun control legislation which is basically a useless tool against crime.

 

[rocket88]

So.....again, give me a quantifiable benefit other than just "I think". Where has that "Logical" progression happened already? Black Friday has come and went with no issues regarding the millions of legal gun carriers. You can honestly tell me there were not people carrying while shopping for that last tickle me Elmo? Considering there are millions of people carrying legally, can you give me any justification other than just "because"? Would you shoot someone over a Tickle me Elmo? Why assume I would? Millions of people with the capability have proven they would not either.
Your point is just a rehash of the old "It will become like the old wild west" argument which has been disproven a million times over by the millions of people who carry legally. Heck, you are more likely to be shot by a police officer than a CCW holder. Given that there are far more individuals who carry legally than police officers, that should tell you that your concerns are misplaced and not relevant to whether law abiding people should be able to carry where they see fit.

It just takes a moment to cross the line from "law abiding" to "criminal."

The criminals in this case were armed. The only thing that likely kept this guy from being dead is that it wasn't a gun. You can't tell the difference between "criminal" and "law abiding" until they commit a criminal act.

 

[TurtleDude]

Ah, generalities. The last refuge of the intellectually lazy....

tell that to the Mossad and how El Al has been the safest air line since Entebbe

 

[rocket88]

tell that to the Mossad and how El Al has been the safest air line since Entebbe

Non-sequitur

 

[TurtleDude]

Non-sequitur

irrelevancy noted. Generalizations are what makes the world go round. True, if there is better more specific information then that should supersede the general information. But if you are a shop keeper and see three young men coming towards your store with ski masks on what are you gonna do? that would be a generalization that people wearing ski masks tend to be robbers unless its frightfully cold

 

[rocket88]

irrelevancy noted. Generalizations are what makes the world go round. True, if there is better more specific information then that should supersede the general information. But if you are a shop keeper and see three young men coming towards your store with ski masks on what are you gonna do? that would be a generalization that people wearing ski masks tend to be robbers unless its frightfully cold

 

[BretJ]

It just takes a moment to cross the line from "law abiding" to "criminal."

The criminals in this case were armed. The only thing that likely kept this guy from being dead is that it wasn't a gun. You can't tell the difference between "criminal" and "law abiding" until they commit a criminal act.

Or a knife or they managed to knock him to the ground and kick his head in. The fact they did not have a gun is irrelevant. On the flip side, there is also the chance that the thugs would be dead or held for arrest had he had the means to defend himself. But it is really a case of shoulda, woulda, coulda. So your preference is that we pass laws which assume everyone is a criminal because they "might be" a criminal. My preference is to assume people are honest and law abiding until they prove otherwise.

 

[ecofarm]

Yes. And you cannot draw in the face of someone stealing your iPod with no weapons visible or legitimate threat of harm.

One can in Florida.

776.08 Forcible felony.—“Forcible felony” means treason; murder; manslaughter; sexual battery; carjacking; home-invasion robbery; robbery; burglary; arson; kidnapping; aggravated assault; aggravated battery; aggravated stalking; aircraft piracy; unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb; and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.

Chapter 776 Section 08 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate

a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:
(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

 

[TurtleDude]

duh if it was 75 degrees out the generalization would have made sense-not when its ice cold

 

[MichaelJR]

One can in Florida.


Chapter 776 Section 08 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate



Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Actually....you're good to go to defend your property in 27 states. Florida is not a special snowflake in the realm of respecting what an individual has worked for.

Steal someone's stuff, assault them....some call it desperation.

I'd like to call it open season

Gene pool would clean up REAL quick.

 

[ecofarm]

Florida is not a special snowflake in the realm of respecting what an individual has worked for.

I made no such implication. I merely did not feel like providing citation for other states.

 

[US Conservative]

Ah, generalities. The last refuge of the intellectually lazy....

Are you aware of the irony of this statement?

 

[US Conservative]

Instantly, I can hear the "ching ching ching" of the NES pistol in my head.

 

[Lursa]

One can in Florida.


Chapter 776 Section 08 - 2011 Florida Statutes - The Florida Senate



Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

You can defend yourself during a robbery but you cannot use deadly force after that. You cannot chase them and shoot them. You cannot shoot them as they run away. You cannot shoot them if they are taking your property if it is not on your person and they are not a physical threat to you (taking your bike out of your yard).

*That* is using lethal force to protect property (outside of Castle Law and similar laws). If you are being robbed, that is as you described.

 

[BretJ]

You can defend yourself during a robbery but you cannot use deadly force after that. You cannot chase them and shoot them. You cannot shoot them as they run away. You cannot shoot them if they are taking your property if it is not on your person and they are not a physical threat to you (taking your bike out of your yard).

*That* is using lethal force to protect property (outside of Castle Law and similar laws). If you are being robbed, that is as you described.

In the process of getting certified as a CCW instructor. I was shocked when my wife attended CCW training and was not given critical information such as what you just stated. I already knew that and had assumed they would cover it. That is exactly the kind of information that should be part of a CCW course curriculum.

 

[BretJ]

Ah, generalities. The last refuge of the intellectually lazy....

You realize this post is going to come back to haunt you many times over... It would seem to cover most of your posted views on firearms ownership.

 

[rocket88]

duh if it was 75 degrees out the generalization would have made sense-not when its ice cold

True, it's just that what you said made me think of that commercial.

 

[rocket88]

You realize this post is going to come back to haunt you many times over... It would seem to cover most of your posted views on firearms ownership.

I have no problem with firearms ownership. I don't like the idea of anyone and everyone packing heat everywhere they go, and I reject the premise that someone who isn't armed deserves whatever happens to them. Two different things. I also favor traffic laws over everybody just driving wherever they please, but I don't think owning a car is bad.

 

[TurtleDude]

I have no problem with firearms ownership. I don't like the idea of anyone and everyone packing heat everywhere they go, and I reject the premise that someone who isn't armed deserves whatever happens to them. Two different things. I also favor traffic laws over everybody just driving wherever they please, but I don't think owning a car is bad.

traffic laws restrict unsafe USAGE

not what kind of car you can own

and yes you can own a car that is faster than anything police use

see the point?

 

[rocket88]

traffic laws restrict unsafe USAGE

not what kind of car you can own

and yes you can own a car that is faster than anything police use

see the point?

And I don't have a problem with anybody owning any gun. (And there are laws about what kind of cars are road legal, but that's not the point)

I don't support bans on types of weapons or how much ammunition, etc. I do favor regulating the safe usage of firearms.

 

[TurtleDude]

And I don't have a problem with anybody owning any gun. (And there are laws about what kind of cars are road legal, but that's not the point)

I don't support bans on types of weapons or how much ammunition, etc. I do favor regulating the safe usage of firearms.

there are thousands of laws that regulate use of firearms

 

[rocket88]

there are thousands of laws that regulate use of firearms

There are, and many of those laws should stay in place. I don't share the opinion that a permit is "unconstitutional." A license to prove that you can safely use a gun is not much different than a license proving you can safely use a car.

 

[TurtleDude]

There are, and many of those laws should stay in place. I don't share the opinion that a permit is "unconstitutional." A license to prove that you can safely use a gun is not much different than a license proving you can safely use a car.

two problems with that even though for carrying on the public streets I don't have all that problems with SHALL ISSUE licenses as long as the costs are REASONABLE and the requirements are not arduous

1) no one is seeking to ban cars

2) there is no constitutional right to drive cars on public lands