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Anti-Abortion Republicans[W: 139]

Spriggs05

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The Republican party advocates the smaller government and then attempts to tell women what they can and cannot do in their Wombs.... Hypocrisy at its largest.
 
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Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

The Republican party advocates the smaller government and then attempts to tell women what they can and cannot do in their Wombs.... Hypocrisy at its largest.

They also want to prohibit SSM and increase the military budget. Granted, by their definition this is shrinking the federal government.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

The Republican party advocates the smaller government and then attempts to tell women what they can and cannot do in their Wombs.... Hypocrisy at its largest.

I disagree. Republicans against abortion generally believe that abortion is murder. Believing that it should be illegal, as long as they believe other murder should be illegal, is the logically correct position.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

I disagree. Republicans against abortion generally believe that abortion is murder. Believing that it should be illegal, as long as they believe other murder should be illegal, is the logically correct position.

Logical yet Hypocrytical...
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Logical yet Hypocrytical...

I don't see it as hypocritical. They generally advocate small government, but not no government. I would think that disallowing murder is one of the things they would approve of the government doing.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

I don't see it as hypocritical. They generally advocate small government, but not no government. I would think that disallowing murder is one of the things they would approve of the government doing.

You dont see it as Hypocritical, i do, to each his own.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Logical yet Hypocrytical...

Not really.

You're (general sense, pro-lifer) seeking to protect the fetus' "right to life". To do this, the fetal incubator (bio-mom) is legally obligated to maintain the fetus' life support system until such time as the fetus reaches term. Constitutionally, there is no right to abortion. Arguably, abortion is justified under the "right to privacy" supposition, but it is not explicitly granted as an unalienable right anywhere in the founding documents (this despite abortion having existed in one form or another for thousands of years). So technically, there is no restriction of constitutional rights on its face if you criminalize abortion. There is, however, a restriction of the fetus' constitutional rights if you legalize abortion.

One could argue, I suppose, that disallowing abortion would infringe upon the bio mom's right to pursue happiness.

So then you must find a balance. By legalizing abortion, do we infringe upon the rights of one to a greater degree than we infringe upon the rights of another? Conversely, by criminalizing abortion, are the rights of one party infringed upon to a greater degree than another? In either case, which infringement occurs to the worst degree?

It's the justification for restrictive law. If the actions of one will infringe upon the rights of another, a law will inevitably exist to prevent that infringement. That law, however, will also infringe upon somebody's rights...but to a lesser degree.

Also, limited government doesn't have finite lines. Even a solid pro-2nd advocate will admit that there are practical limits on the arms which one may legally own. Even a solid marriage equality advocate will admit there are practical limits on marriage (i.e. no cross-species marriages, no adult-child marriages, no slave-master marriages, etc). Absolute freedom is non-existent. Society will always limit the legal actions of its participants.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Not really.

You're (general sense, pro-lifer) seeking to protect the fetus' "right to life". To do this, the fetal incubator (bio-mom) is legally obligated to maintain the fetus' life support system until such time as the fetus reaches term. Constitutionally, there is no right to abortion. Arguably, abortion is justified under the "right to privacy" supposition, but it is not explicitly granted as an unalienable right anywhere in the founding documents (this despite abortion having existed in one form or another for thousands of years). So technically, there is no restriction of constitutional rights on its face if you criminalize abortion. There is, however, a restriction of the fetus' constitutional rights if you legalize abortion.

One could argue, I suppose, that disallowing abortion would infringe upon the bio mom's right to pursue happiness.

So then you must find a balance. By legalizing abortion, do we infringe upon the rights of one to a greater degree than we infringe upon the rights of another? Conversely, by criminalizing abortion, are the rights of one party infringed upon to a greater degree than another? In either case, which infringement occurs to the worst degree?

It's the justification for restrictive law. If the actions of one will infringe upon the rights of another, a law will inevitably exist to prevent that infringement. That law, however, will also infringe upon somebody's rights...but to a lesser degree.

Also, limited government doesn't have finite lines. Even a solid pro-2nd advocate will admit that there are practical limits on the arms which one may legally own. Even a solid marriage equality advocate will admit there are practical limits on marriage (i.e. no cross-species marriages, no adult-child marriages, no slave-master marriages, etc). Absolute freedom is non-existent. Society will always limit the legal actions of its participants.

Im moreover arguing the contrast between small government advocated by republicans, (I.e. The state Doesnt tell people what to do As Much) against the fact that they are telling women what they can and cant do in their own body.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Not really.

You're (general sense, pro-lifer) seeking to protect the fetus' "right to life". To do this, the fetal incubator (bio-mom) is legally obligated to maintain the fetus' life support system until such time as the fetus reaches term. Constitutionally, there is no right to abortion. Arguably, abortion is justified under the "right to privacy" supposition, but it is not explicitly granted as an unalienable right anywhere in the founding documents (this despite abortion having existed in one form or another for thousands of years). So technically, there is no restriction of constitutional rights on its face if you criminalize abortion. There is, however, a restriction of the fetus' constitutional rights if you legalize abortion.

One could argue, I suppose, that disallowing abortion would infringe upon the bio mom's right to pursue happiness.

So then you must find a balance. By legalizing abortion, do we infringe upon the rights of one to a greater degree than we infringe upon the rights of another? Conversely, by criminalizing abortion, are the rights of one party infringed upon to a greater degree than another? In either case, which infringement occurs to the worst degree?

It's the justification for restrictive law. If the actions of one will infringe upon the rights of another, a law will inevitably exist to prevent that infringement. That law, however, will also infringe upon somebody's rights...but to a lesser degree.

Also, limited government doesn't have finite lines. Even a solid pro-2nd advocate will admit that there are practical limits on the arms which one may legally own. Even a solid marriage equality advocate will admit there are practical limits on marriage (i.e. no cross-species marriages, no adult-child marriages, no slave-master marriages, etc). Absolute freedom is non-existent. Society will always limit the legal actions of its participants.

Until "life" is defined by the Federal Government, this issue will never go away. If they can justify that a zygote is "life" and then considered murder if it was aborted, then I am all for it. But they can't. I don't understand how abortion is murder.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Im moreover arguing the contrast between small government advocated by republicans, (I.e. The state Doesnt tell people what to do As Much) against the fact that they are telling women what they can and cant do in their own body.

So when republicans support anti-murder laws, are they also hypocritical?

What about when they support anti-theft laws?

What about when your state republicans vote for insurance requirements for drivers?
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

So when republicans support anti-murder laws, are they also hypocritical?

hypocritical to the small government claims.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

hypocritical to the small government claims.

You've yet to provide a legitimate argue as to why.

Small government =/= no government. If they advocated for anarchy you might have a point...but they don't.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

You've yet to provide a legitimate argue as to why.

Small government =/= no government. If they advocated for anarchy you might have a point...but they don't.

Small government means less intervention in peoples lives (Libertarianism) rather than no intervention (Anarchy). So the idea of Abortion contrasts with Small Government.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Small government means less intervention in peoples lives (Libertarianism) rather than no intervention (Anarchy). So the idea of Abortion contrasts with Small Government.
The idea of murder prevention does not interfere with the concept of small government. As a libertarian I believe that one of the few jobs the government has is to prevent aggression between citizens. When one citizen attacks another, it is the government's job to prevent the violence, or, when the violence has already occured, seek retribution for the act.

THIS is the true purpose of government.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Small government means less intervention in peoples lives (Libertarianism) rather than no intervention (Anarchy). So the idea of Abortion contrasts with Small Government.

Not if you think that abortion is murder of the fetus, and that the fetus' right to life trumps the woman's right to privacy/right to pursue happiness....which is the exact same measure for making murder of a non-fetus illegal...the murder infringes upon the victim's right to life to a more serious degree than disallowing murder infringes upon the murderer's right to...whatever.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

The idea of murder prevention does not interfere with the concept of small government. As a libertarian I believe that one of the few jobs the government has is to prevent aggression between citizens. When one citizen attacks another, it is the government's job to prevent the violence, or, when the violence has already occured, seek retribution for the act.

THIS is the true purpose of government.

Yes, minarchism
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

You dont see it as Hypocritical, i do, to each his own.

You can see it is hypocritical all you like... that just makes you completely wrong. It is not hypocritical.

Smaller government does not mean no government. We all agree murder is wrong and if they believe that abortion is murder then it simply falls under that catagory. It is not creating a larger government. They are simply advocating that abortion be included in the murder code or as anther crime in which the current DA's and police already prosecute.

Im moreover arguing the contrast between small government advocated by republicans, (I.e. The state Doesnt tell people what to do As Much) against the fact that they are telling women what they can and cant do in their own body.

The government already tells people what to do... so that is a false argument.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

Yes, minarchism

The purpose of government is the protection of rights. If somebody feels the fetus deserves rights then they are not advocating for government intervention beyond not allowing the women to kill a life that deserves rights just as she does.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

How does one murder an unconscious entity?

Wow... so if somebody is blacked out due to drinking, in a coma or faints, for instance... it isn't murder? Interesting indeed.

Glad you aren't associated with the legal code. :lol:
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

unconscious in the sense that it has never been conscious, it is inanimate, it has no feelings, hopes, dreams, or knowledge.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

How does one murder an unconscious entity?

One way is to pull the plug. Do you regard sleeping as being unconscious? If so, I can think of a wealth of ways to murder somebody. :lol:
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

I don't give a fat rat's behind if they think it's murder - the FACT is that it's not and that has been proven here over and over again. If someone thinks slaughtering animals for food is murder (and yes, there are people who think that way), is it okay for them to make it illegal to eat meat?

Besides, most people who call abortion murder don't truly believe it is. If they did, they'd not make an exception for rape/incest.

As a conservative, one of the reasons I am pro choice is I believe in minimal govt. interference in our lives. That includes being for the right of gays to marry, being against mandatory insurance, seat belt laws, helmet laws etc.
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

I don't give a fat rat's behind if they think it's murder - the FACT is that it's not and that has been proven here over and over again. If someone thinks slaughtering animals for food is murder (and yes, there are people who think that way), is it okay for them to make it illegal to eat meat?

Besides, most people who call abortion murder don't truly believe it is. If they did, they'd not make an exception for rape/incest.

As a conservative, one of the reasons I am pro choice is I believe in minimal govt. interference in our lives. That includes being for the right of gays to marry, being against mandatory insurance, seat belt laws, helmet laws etc.

Against seat belt laws? Are you out of your ****ing mind?!! Innocent little kids getting smashed to death is a right parents have for their kids? WTF? Man, I thought you were ridiculous before... but now?
 
Re: Anti-Abortion Republicans

I don't give a fat rat's behind if they think it's murder - the FACT is that it's not and that has been proven here over and over again. If someone thinks slaughtering animals for food is murder (and yes, there are people who think that way), is it okay for them to make it illegal to eat meat?

Besides, most people who call abortion murder don't truly believe it is. If they did, they'd not make an exception for rape/incest.

As a conservative, one of the reasons I am pro choice is I believe in minimal govt. interference in our lives. That includes being for the right of gays to marry, being against mandatory insurance, seat belt laws, helmet laws etc.

You can't prove an opinion; all you can do is hold one. As I recall, more than once you've stated that you'd rather be dead than pregnant. Isn't this the main reason you're pro-choice?
 
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