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Another way of looking at abortion…[W:290]

Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

So some human lives do have more value than others then?

Yes exactly since when you look more closely, humans value based on how much and or will put great investment into something.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

The proper alternative to answering is reiterating the actual stance,
AHA! So this is why you keep ignoring questions, and spewing the same lies over and over and over, ad nauseum.
You don't actually know how to participate in a Debate!

... which was never remotely ambiguous in the first place,
HAW! HAW!! HAW!!! Indeed, your stance has never been ambiguous. But it has never been right, either! To be a correct stance, it needs to be based on all the relevant data. But since you ignore important/relevant Scientific Facts, it is literally impossible for your stance to be correct.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

AHA! So this is why you keep ignoring questions, and spewing the same lies over and over and over, ad nauseum.
You don't actually know how to participate in a Debate!

"When did you stop beating your wife" inquiries are fallacies, and worse, they represent a calculated lie on the part of the questioner.

Again, your sin is projecting your own failings onto others; if you had read the thread - a prerequisite for participation - you would see that all I am saying is that when one is asked a loaded question (again: a logical fallacy), the proper response is to challenge the unjustified assumption and reiterate the truth.

There's only one proper response for a loaded question; the alternative is not responding at all, which isn't a response at all. At no time should you ever engage the simple trap mechanism, thus lending credence to the unfounded assumption.
 
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Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Nobody has denied that every woman matters.

Every human being matters. Every man, every woman, every child. Even those children who you refer to with the bigoted term “ZEF”. Calling them by such a hateful term,and trying to deny their humanity, does not diminish their true value as human beings.
Ah, so we have another Abortion Opponent here, who is ignorant of relevant Facts. It is a LIE to call an unborn human a "human being", exactly because it is a lie to call an ordinary cockroach a "cockroach being". Consider such entities as "rocks" or "trees" or "bacteria" --all exist and HAVE "being" but none are ever called "rock beings" or "tree beings" or "bacterium beings". On the other hand, we DO sometimes talk about "alien beings", "intelligent beings", "extraterrestrial beings", and even "artificial intelligence beings". We are talking about a PERSON when we attach the word "being" to an entity-designation. Unborn humans are, in actual Measurable Scientific Fact, totally unable to qualify as a person (because infant humans also fail to qualify, we can measure them more easily, and it is well known, even by Abortion Opponents, that the unborn are less-developed than infants --even human infants have less mental abilities than many ordinary/mere animals --so if you are going to grant person status to unborn humans, by calling them "human beings", why don't you also grant person status to wolves, by calling them "wolf beings"?.

Look at the "signature" attached to my messages. Try answering the Question, regarding how to tell the difference between a person and a mere animal, anywhere in the Universe. It is a simple Scientific Fact that the characteristics that generically distinguish persons from animals DO NOT EXIST in infant humans.

Therefore, to value all humans equally is a STUPIDLY PREJUDICED thing to do. We definitely need to value all PERSONS equally, regardless of species, regardless of biology, regardless of physical nature --regardless of ANY nature. I recommend you read #328 in this Message Thread, paying attention to the "R-strategy" stuff. THAT'S why it is stupid to equate mere animals with persons!
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

"When did you stop beating your wife" inquiries are fallacies, and worse, they represent a calculated lie on the part of the questioner.
I see you still don't know how to read. I wasn't describing your response to loaded questions\, I was describing your response to almost any question, which is why I didn't quote all that you wrote.

Again, your sin is projecting your own failings onto others; if you had read the thread - a prerequisite for participation - you would see that all I am saying is that when one is asked a loaded question (again: a logical fallacy), the proper response is to challenge the unjustified assumption and reiterate the truth.
FALSE. Among your other ignorances, you also don't know the actual correct way to deal with a loaded question. The correct way is, after claiming that the question is loaded, to point out exactly how it is a loaded question. The mere claim that it is loaded is worthless without evidence!
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

I do not know, in any given abortion debate, whether we are specifically discussing a zygote, an embryo, or a fetus. Talking about a ZEF covers all three.
You are missing a couple of stages, "morula" and "blastocyst". The correct abbreviated sequence is ZMBEF. :)
Me, I typically use the phrase "unborn human". It covers all the stages, doesn't take up a lot of space, and nobody can complain that I am de-humanizing the unborn.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Who has ever said that it is OK for women to die?

You have, and so has every person who supports banning abortion.

You think you have not said it is okay for women to die, because you would make an exception for cases in which the woman's life is threatened. The problem with this approach is that, every year, some women die of medically unforeseeable complications in late pregnancy and childbirth. Medical professionals do not take responsibility in these cases, nor can they be held accountable, because medical science does not claim to be able to foresee all complications leading to death in late pregnancy and childbirth.

If women have the right to choose abortion earlier in pregnancy and then die of such unforeseeable complications, though we can feel bad, no one can argue that the law and the government are responsible for the death, because the woman had ample opportunity to follow an intuition of doubt about the positive outcome of that particular pregnancy. But if women do not have that right to choose, and then die of such unforeseeable complications, the law and government are responsible for the death, because they are responsible for preventing the woman from following an intuition of doubt about the positive outcome of that particular pregnancy.
 
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Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Yes, every human life matters, each one--very old, very young, very bad, very inconvenient...each one.

Tell it to every zygote that does not grow into a blastocyst and every blastocyst that does not successfully implant or that miscarries after its implantation fails. Since you have been sexually active in your adult life, you have undoubtedly carried some of these zygotes~blastocysts without ever knowing it and your body has naturally eliminated them without your ever knowing it. Tell me, how can you mourn each one individually when you didn't even know when they were in existence in your body?
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

You are missing a couple of stages, "morula" and "blastocyst". The correct abbreviated sequence is ZMBEF. :)
Me, I typically use the phrase "unborn human". It covers all the stages, doesn't take up a lot of space, and nobody can complain that I am de-humanizing the unborn.

Yeah, but we don't abort morulas and blastocysts. So they aren't relevant to the debate.

It's still biologically ridiculous and manipulative. "Unborn human" portrays it as a person in miniature. It isn't.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

To Bob Blaylock: I see neither you nor JayDubya tried to offer a refutation of what I wrote; all you did was complain about it. Typical for Abortion Opponents, of course, to act like they prefer Emotion over Facts and Logic. And the FACT is, humans are generally not equal to each other. Otherwise all would be the same size, shape, coloring, etcetera. Even the same age and sex! So, once you accept that Fact that humans are generally not equal to each other, you need to ask, "Why do we want to treat them equally under the Law?" --except that we clearly don't treat them equally under the law! We segregate restrooms for the two sexes; we don't allow the very young or the severely-mentally-handicapped to drive cars or vote or shoot guns, etcetera. In Scientific Fact, some humans are measurably equivalent to average ordinary animals, while other humans have many capabilities that ordinary animals either lack entirely, or possess only to small degree. Indeed, some of those ordinary animals are clearly more capable than some humans!

THEREFORE: If you want to apply certain Laws (perhaps "right to life") to relatively-incapable humans, while not applying those same Laws to relatively-more-capable non-humans, you are exhibiting Stupid Prejudice. And since that one-sided ("for humans only") application-of-Law is exactly what most Abortion Opponents want to do, they are, demonstrably and provably, Stupidly Prejudiced. Period.
 
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Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

So some human lives do have more value than others then?

The choice you presented is between my children that I value more than my very life and would gladly die so they could live and three other children. As soon as I hear my children are in a burning building my choice is made and there is no amount of people you could put in the other building that will change it. Put ten, a hundred, a thousand, a million, I really don't care, I will save my children regardless.

This is not an example of me not valuing all human life, but being presented with a choice that you are putting a very part of my soul on the line.
 
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Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Yeah, but we don't abort morulas and blastocysts. So they aren't relevant to the debate.
It's still biologically ridiculous and manipulative.
Actually, we don't abort zygotes, either, except maybe in a lab, playing with sperm and eggs. However, in a lab it is also possible to abort morulas and blastocysts, so.... (meanwhile, actually, the "morning after" pill works by preventing a blastocyst from implanting in a womb, so while that doesn't exactly qualify as "aborting" it, there is a pretty important interaction with it).

"Unborn human" portrays it as a person in miniature. It isn't.
No, one would have to use the phrase "unborn human being" to equate it with a person. And you might have noticed that I strongly object to such usage; I do frequently specify "unborn human animal", or "unborn human animal organism", in fact.
 
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Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Yes exactly since when you look more closely, humans value based on how much and or will put great investment into something.

This has nothing to do with putting an investment into my children. My children are not some random piece of property that I worked hard towards.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

For most, protecting or saving one's offspring is an instinct.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

I would save my 2 children because I put way more investment into them and if they die all that money I spent on them would've all been to waste.

But IRL you don't have kids, do you? Aren't you still in high school?
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Actually, we don't abort zygotes, either, except maybe in a lab, playing with sperm and eggs. However, in a lab it is also possible to abort morulas and blastocysts, so.... (meanwhile, actually, the "morning after" pill works by preventing a blastocyst from implanting in a womb, so while that doesn't exactly qualify as "aborting" it, there is a pretty important interaction with it).

Wrong. That is not how the morning after pill works.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Wrong. That is not how the morning after pill works.
We may be talking about two different "morning after pills". Do keep in mind that it takes more than 3 days for a zygote to become a blastocyst, which then attempts to implant into a womb. If a morning-after pill is literally taken the morning after, the most logical effect would be to prevent the implantation of the blastocyst. But if you have a different drug that can be taken say, a week after, then, OK, you would be dislodging/aborting an already-implanted blastocyst --except at that, according to the naming conventions, once a blastocyst implants, it ceases to be called a blastocyst; it is now an "embryo".
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

The morning after pill does not do what you said. Get over it and stop talking about a completely different pill. :roll:
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Agreed. That is, simply put, the dumbest thing I have ever read. I doubt we could ever see its equal ever again.

"Equality is prejudicial!"

It's like something out of 1984.

Indeed, I am surprised and disappointed that I did not realize this until you pointed it out, but it fits perfectly…

War is peace!
Freedom is slavery!
Ignorance is strength!
Therefore, to value all humans equally is a STUPIDLY PREJUDICED thing to do.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

The morning after pill does not do what you said. Get over it and stop talking about a completely different pill. :roll:
Nope; I am at least partly correct. First, though, I'll mention that there is another category of "morning after pill", which I had neglected to remember while writing my last post here. This type of pill is intended to prevent ovulation, and therefore can prevent conception. However, it is obviously useless if ovulation has already occurred! Unless some variety of morning-after pill can prevent womb-implantation. And it happens that there is one:
Wikipedia article on mifepristone said:
However, in China and Russia only, mifepristone is available as either emergency contraception or as an abortifacient, depending on whether it is used before or after implantation.
The evidence therefore indicate that it is you, just like most Abortion Opponents, who is ignorant of the current subject.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

The choice you presented is between my children that I value more than my very life and would gladly die so they could live and three other children. As soon as I hear my children are in a burning building my choice is made and there is no amount of people you could put in the other building that will change it. Put ten, a hundred, a thousand, a million, I really don't care, I will save my children regardless.

This is not an example of me not valuing all human life, but being presented with a choice that you are putting a very part of my soul on the line.

Except that you cannot claim a utilitarian view of equality of every life and every life is equally precious since a true utilitarian would save the 3 stranger children since that is the most good for the most people. Since people are all equally valuable. Your answer is not a wrong one, it illustrates that what you said is untrue for you. Every life does not have equal value.
 
Re: Another way of looking at abortion…

Indeed, I am surprised and disappointed that I did not realize this until you pointed it out, but it fits perfectly…

War is peace!
Freedom is slavery!
Ignorance is strength!​
Anything taken out of context can be made to look stupid.
Alternatively, anyone taking something out of context so obviously, as was done in #383, simply makes the taker look stupid.
How about you reply to the whole context, perhaps as reiterated in #388?
 
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