It's not like a virus. It's a side effect of our current culture. We have changed dramatically the way we raise children over the past 50 years. We are seeing the results of cultural changes and attitudes toward the basic unit of society, which was once the importance of family and community.
I may be called a backwoods hick for this, but in my hometown every pick-up in the school parking lot had at least one gun. Almost always a hunting rifle or shot gun and never one incident. Yes, there were bullies and the bullied. But it was handled with fists or teachers. But, then again we were just a bunch of bubbas clinging to our bibles and guns...what did we know?
Kids aren't raised that way though. A little southern raising probably wouldn't hurt.
In 1950 we taught children that they were created by a God, one of whose commandments was "Thou shalt not murder", because human life was sacred. We taught respect for authority and family and tradition, we had strict discipline, and we had no school shootings. I'm not saying 1950 was perfect, there were issues that needed to be resolved like racism and sexism.... but we didn't have Columbine style shootings.
2012: For some fifty years we've been teaching children that they are merely intelligent evolved animals whose existence is not by any design or purpose, but mere chance. We have almost no discipline in school, while children are taught to question everything and diss all authority by pop culture.... and we have a Columbine-clone every few months.
Some people might not like what I just said, but that's probably because there's too much truth in it.
Some of us still raise kids that way.
In 1950 we taught children that they were created by a God, one of whose commandments was "Thou shalt not murder", because human life was sacred.....
Now it's like a virus, spreading everywhere.
Don't bring religion into this. Religion has nothing to do with parenting abilities and discipline.
This NEVER happened until Columbine. Now it's like a virus, spreading everywhere.
1980s
• January 20, 1983 St. Louis County, Missouri the Parkway South Middle School, eighth grader brought a blue duffel bag containing two pistols, and a murder/suicide note that outlined his intention to kill the next person heard speaking ill of his older brother Ken. He entered a study hall classroom and opened fire, hitting two fellow students. The first victim, was fatally shot in the stomach, and the second victim received a non-fatal gunshot wound to the abdomen. Then he said, "no one will ever call my brother a ***** again" then committed suicide.
• October 18, 1985 Detroit, Michigan During halftime of the homecoming football game between Northwestern High School and Murray-Wright High School. A boy who was in a fight earlier that day, pulled out a shotgun and opened fire injuring six students.
• November 26, 1985 Spanaway, Washington A 14yr old girl shot two boys dead then kills herself with a .22-caliber rifle at the Spanaway Junior High School.
• December 10, 1985 Portland, Connecticut At the Portland Junior High School, the Principal was having a heated discussion with a 13-year-old male eighth-grader when he locked the boy inside an office. The student then pulled out a 9mm assault rifle and opened fire. The bullet shattered the glass door and struck the left forearm of the secretary and the glass injured the Principal. The boy fled for the 2nd floor, were he encountered the janitor, and he shot him in the head. The boy then took a seventh-grader hostage. The boy's father and another family member came to the school and talked to him over the intercom system. After 45 minutes, he tossed the gun out a school window and was taken into custody.
• May 16, 1986 The Cokeville Elementary School hostage crisis In a ransom scheme, David and Doris Young, both in their forties, took 150 students and teachers hostage on this spring day. Their demand for $300 million dollars came to an abrupt end when Doris accidentally set off a bomb, killing herself and injuring 78 students and teachers. David wounded John Miller, a teacher who was trying to flee, then killed himself.
• March 2, 1987 Missouri an honours student Nathan Ferris, 12, killed a classmate and then himself.
• May 20, 1988 Winnetka, Illinois 30yr old Laurie Dann shot and killed one boy, and wounded five other kids, in an elementary school, then took a family hostage and shot a man before killing herself.
• September 26, 1988 Greenwood, South Carolina In the cafeteria of the Oakland Elementary School 19 year-old James William Wilson Jr., shot and killed Shequilla Bradley, 8 and wounded eight other children with a 9-round .22 caliber pistol. He went into the girls restroom to reload where he was attacked by Kat Finkbeiner, a Physical Education teacher. James shot her in the hand and mouth. He then entered 3rd grade classroom and wounded six more students.
• December 16, 1988 Virginia Beach, Virginia Nicholas Elliott, 15, opened fire with a SWD Cobray M-11 semiautomatic pistol on his teachers at the Atlantic Shores Christian School. His first shots struck teacher Karen Farley in the arm; when she went down he killed her at point blank range. Nicholas then injured Sam Marino. He turned the Cobray toward his classmates, but the gun jammed and he was quickly subdued by M. Hutchinson Matteson, a teacher, before he could fire another round.
• January 17, 1989 Cleveland School massacre of Stockton, California where 5 school children were killed and 29 wounded by a single gunman firing over 100 rounds into a schoolyard from an AK-47
• May 1, 1992 Olivehurst, California Eric Houston, 20, killed four people and wounded 10 in an armed siege at his former high school. Prosecutors said the attack was in retribution for a failing grade.
• October 12, 1995 Blackville, South Carolina A suspended student shot two math teachers with a .32 caliber revolver.
• February 2, 1996 Moses Lake, Washington Two students and one teacher killed, one other wounded when 14-year-old Barry Loukaitis opened fire on his algebra class.
• February 19, 1997 Bethel, Alaska Principal and one student killed, two others wounded by Evan Ramsey, 16.
• October 1, 1997 Pearl, Mississippi Two students killed and seven wounded by Luke Woodham, 16, who was also accused of killing his mother. He and his friends were said to be outcasts who worshiped Satan.
. November 27, 1997 West Palm Beach. Florida Conniston Middle School 14 year-old John Kamel was fatally shot in the chest at 8:40 a.m. outside school on a sidewalk by 14 year-old Tronneal Mangum, after an argument over an Adidas watch that Mangum had taken from Kamel.
• December 1, 1997 West Paducah, Kentucky Three students killed, five wounded by Michael Carneal, 14, as they participated in a prayer circle at Heath High School.
• December 15, 1997 Stamps, Arkansas Two students wounded. Colt Todd, 14, was hiding in the woods when he shot the students as they stood in the parking lot
• March 24, 1998 Jonesboro, Arkansas Four students and one teacher killed, ten others wounded outside as Westside Middle School emptied during a false fire alarm. Mitchell Johnson, 13, and Andrew Golden, 11, shot at their classmates and teachers from the woods
• April 24, 1998 Edinboro, Pennsylvania One teacher, John Gillette, killed, two students wounded at a dance at James W. Parker Middle School. Andrew Wurst, 14, was charged.
• May 21, 1998 Springfield, Oregon Two students killed, 22 others wounded in the cafeteria at Thurston High School by 15-year-old Kip Kinkel. Kinkel had been arrested and released a day earlier for bringing a gun to school. His parents were later found dead at home.
• June 15, 1998 Richmond, Virginia One teacher and one guidance counselor wounded by a 14-year-old boy in the school hallway
• May 20, 1999 Conyers, Georgia Six students injured at Heritage High School by Thomas Solomon, 15, who was reportedly depressed after breaking up with his girlfriend
we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.
1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.
we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.
1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.
Bud, if you don't want to teach your children religion, don't. But by whatever you believe in teach them SOMETHING that gives them a reason to have a little respect for their fellow human beings!
Don't assume they have it inborn.... they don't.
Don't assume they'll learn it in school... they won't.
If you don't want to hang that hook on God, you can hang on whatever nail you like.... humanism, philosophy, enlightened self-interest, whatever melts your butter... but if you don't TEACH them to respect human life and other people and to fear the consequences of bad actions, they're not going to learn it on their own.
Unraised children tend to grow up to be barbarous adults.
Bud, I said not a damn word about how great racism and sexism were. I said we had no Columbines in the 1950's and that is true. I said we taught children "thou shalt not kill" and we did. I said we had more respect for authority and we did. Nothing I actually said was wrong, until you start throwing in strawmen.
Racism and sexism needed to be addressed; they have been. Problem is we threw the baby out with the bath water and in the name of critical thinking we threw out almost ALL the values that made us what we were, the good with the bad.
I never said 1950 was perfect, I specifically said it wasn't. I said we had no Columbines and pointed out some differences I think may contribute.
Bud, if you don't want to teach your children religion, don't. But by whatever you believe in teach them SOMETHING that gives them a reason to have a little respect for their fellow human beings!
Don't assume they have it inborn.... they don't.
Don't assume they'll learn it in school... they won't.
If you don't want to hang that hook on God, you can hang on whatever nail you like.... humanism, philosophy, enlightened self-interest, whatever melts your butter... but if you don't TEACH them to respect human life and other people and to fear the consequences of bad actions, they're not going to learn it on their own.
Unraised children tend to grow up to be barbarous adults.
I'm all for that. I'm just saying that whether or not you believe in God does not affect discipline.
On the contrary, it absolutely does impact discipline. If you believe in God and raise your children to do so as well, you can have someone watching them 24/7, from whom they cannot hide, who evaluates the morality of their every action and burdens their conscience when they consider doing wrong.
As a parent, I find this terribly useful.
:mrgreen:
those are adults-21 years and older-ie older than the average M16 toting Pineapple throwing claymore mine setting Nam Infantry man. Older than my nephew was when he first was issued a M4 automatic carbine and given the authority to call in a 105 howitzer strike on occupied buildings
On the contrary, it absolutely does impact discipline. If you believe in God and raise your children to do so as well, you can have someone watching them 24/7, from whom they cannot hide, who evaluates the morality of their every action and burdens their conscience when they consider doing wrong.
As a parent, I find this terribly useful.
:mrgreen:
It could be a useful tool, but their are other ways to discipline children. I'm not anti religious as I am Christian and proud of it. But an atheist can be just as good of a parent.
...True story... possible school shooting averted because a couple of parents taught Joe their religion...
however, one could teach their child about the Crusades, the Inquisition, Colonialism, Manifest Destiny, and that child will learn that violence has its place....even as an expression of faith.
its silly to suggest that teaching about the Bible, will automatically make one a peaceful, kind, and gentle soul.
cases in point: Anders Breivik & Eric Rudolph.
however, one could teach their child about the Crusades, the Inquisition, Colonialism, Manifest Destiny, and that child will learn that violence has its place....even as an expression of faith.
its silly to suggest that teaching about the Bible, will automatically make one a peaceful, kind, and gentle soul.
cases in point: Anders Breivik & Eric Rudolph.
Hmm Maybe if TJ Lane got burned at the stake and the barbecue was broadcast widely the next loser who decides to shoot up a school might decide that roasting alive might not be a great idea
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