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Another School Shooting




In 1950 we taught children that they were created by a God, one of whose commandments was "Thou shalt not murder", because human life was sacred. We taught respect for authority and family and tradition, we had strict discipline, and we had no school shootings. I'm not saying 1950 was perfect, there were issues that needed to be resolved like racism and sexism.... but we didn't have Columbine style shootings.

2012: For some fifty years we've been teaching children that they are merely intelligent evolved animals whose existence is not by any design or purpose, but mere chance. We have almost no discipline in school, while children are taught to question everything and diss all authority by pop culture.... and we have a Columbine-clone every few months.



Some people might not like what I just said, but that's probably because there's too much truth in it.
 

Kids aren't raised that way though. A little southern raising probably wouldn't hurt.
 

Don't bring religion into this. Religion has nothing to do with parenting abilities and discipline.
 
In 1950 we taught children that they were created by a God, one of whose commandments was "Thou shalt not murder", because human life was sacred.....

we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.

1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.
 
Now it's like a virus, spreading everywhere.

As hard as it may be to stomach for some people, we have become too soft as a society, to the detriment of the mental health in many of our kids. Alot of humans are little more than slightly evolved animals. In the animal world, the young are taught with force that they must control their whims and impulses. This is why you will see a mother cat slap her kitten when it gets too rambunctious or foolhardy. The kitten must learn the meaning of *NO*, in order to preserve it's own well-being. Humans are moving away from this philosophy of rearing their young because they are buying into the idea that they mustn't harm little Johnny's psyche or self-esteem by telling him NO. Just let little Johnny act and be whatever and however he wants, and he will grow up to be a good boy and an upstanding member of society.

Unfortunately, that is a lie. Some little Johnnies will grow up to be just fine if they are handled with a light hand and a loose rein, but other little Johnnies can't handle the responsibility. Alot of kids are not being taught to tell themselves no, and *NO* is one of the most important words that humans can learn, for it helps us control our animal impulses and gives us a sense of control in bad situations.

What we are seeing nowadays is that many little Johnnies can't handle the word NO, and they lose their minds when anything happens to upset their little worlds.
 
Don't bring religion into this. Religion has nothing to do with parenting abilities and discipline.


Bud, if you don't want to teach your children religion, don't. But by whatever you believe in teach them SOMETHING that gives them a reason to have a little respect for their fellow human beings!

Don't assume they have it inborn.... they don't.

Don't assume they'll learn it in school... they won't.

If you don't want to hang that hook on God, you can hang on whatever nail you like.... humanism, philosophy, enlightened self-interest, whatever melts your butter... but if you don't TEACH them to respect human life and other people and to fear the consequences of bad actions, they're not going to learn it on their own.

Unraised children tend to grow up to be barbarous adults.
 
I can't help but think that flooding our kids' brains with images of violence & bloodshed, from video games & movies & tv, has something to do with this.

all conflict resolution they see, is through violence.

all afronts against one's maleness or status, is addressed with violence.
 
This NEVER happened until Columbine. Now it's like a virus, spreading everywhere.

No, you just didn't hear about it.

A couple reasons for this: Now we have more sensationalized media where this kind of news is exploited and at Columbine you had a fairly predominantly white student population in an "average" quiet "It can't happen here" attitude, as we know that is a fallacy.

I posted only multi-victim shootings here, there are several more incidents with single injuries / deaths. If you follow the link there are also some statistics.
School shooting - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.

1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.


Bud, I said not a damn word about how great racism and sexism were. I said we had no Columbines in the 1950's and that is true. I said we taught children "thou shalt not kill" and we did. I said we had more respect for authority and we did. Nothing I actually said was wrong, until you start throwing in strawmen.

Racism and sexism needed to be addressed; they have been. Problem is we threw the baby out with the bath water and in the name of critical thinking we threw out almost ALL the values that made us what we were, the good with the bad.

I never said 1950 was perfect, I specifically said it wasn't. I said we had no Columbines and pointed out some differences I think may contribute.
 
we also had state-sanctioned racism, gays were in the closet, women were for the most part stuck at home, etc etc.

1950 wasn't such a fabulous time to mimic.

Yeah, you could leave your doors unlocked, walk down the street without getting mugged. It sucked!
 


I will add, if I may, no matter what we want to teach them in many respects we are the only living version of what we they learn and we are studied every minute of every day.
 
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Actually, you did. With the Libbos, everything is good, or everything is bad. Ther's no in between.
 


I'm all for that. I'm just saying that whether or not you believe in God does not affect discipline.
 
I'm all for that. I'm just saying that whether or not you believe in God does not affect discipline.


On the contrary, it absolutely does impact discipline. If you believe in God and raise your children to do so as well, you can have someone watching them 24/7, from whom they cannot hide, who evaluates the morality of their every action and burdens their conscience when they consider doing wrong.

As a parent, I find this terribly useful.

:mrgreen:
 

excellent points that I never even considered when I was raising my own! I had to rely on their fear of my psychic abilities. :lol:
(j/k )
 
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I think Liberty University's policy has just recently changed, in December or January, and only those with valid CCW permits are allowed to carry. All are adults. Visitors can only carry in locked cars, and only some teachers are allowed to carry.
 

It could be a useful tool, but there are other ways to discipline children. I'm not anti religious as I am Christian and proud of it. But an atheist can be just as good of a parent.
 
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It could be a useful tool, but their are other ways to discipline children. I'm not anti religious as I am Christian and proud of it. But an atheist can be just as good of a parent.

There are other ways, no doubt, and the disclipine should fit the child. Some kids need gentle guidance, and others need a firm authoritative hand. Where we have gone wrong is in believing that children are more complicated and intelligent than they actually are. Children are insecure, as they should be. They need to know that someone else is in control until they are able to control themselves. They need to learn that there is more to life than immediate gratification and getting the things that they want at their every whim. Life is hard, and it sometimes causes emotional pain. They need to learn how to deal with painful situations in a controlled manner, otherwise they will be subject to hurting every time something doesn't go the way they envisioned it should. When people don't learn to deal with disappointment, they will do rash and dangerous things.

One of my sisters had three children, all of which were sweet, compliant little angels. I had two boys, both of which had a rebellious adventurous nature (imagine that ). My sister's children didn't require much in the way of disclipine. Their natures didn't need it. My boys needed someone with the disposition to handle defiance. It's similar to raising various dog breeds in a way. A doberman needs an owner who can handle him well. A bassett hound just needs to sit in your lap to be happy.
 
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Let me tell y'all a true story about a young fellow... I'll call him "Joe" to protect his identity.

Bear in mind, this IS a true story.


"Joe" had a rough time in Junior High. His social skills were mediocre and he was perhaps overly sensitive; he came from a family that was very mild-mannered and didn't tolerate verbal abuse or other uncivil behavior, and the first time some kid called him a m'f'er he almost had a stroke he was so infuriated. He was a country boy who dressed in rugged comfortable clothes and not the latest style, and he was too honest and too trusting for his own good. Well, he got bullied a lot. It was a rough school, there were 16-19yo thugs there who had failed three grades in a row for misbehavior and it was a time when violence was peaking (1970s).

By the end of his first year at Jr High Joe felt like his life was coming apart. He'd been in more fights in six months that in the past six years and had been gang-beatdown, had weapons pulled on him and suffered what he considered daily insults and abuse that never ended. He saw no end in sight to this circumstance and struggled with the notion that he'd rather die than spend another year being tormented that way.

Joe's parents didn't lock their guns up; few people did back then in the country. Joe wasn't supposed to handle any guns without permission, but he knew where his father's pistols were hidden. There were three people at school that Joe saw as the chief architects of his living hell, and one day he sat in his room and gave serious thought to taking his Dad's smallest revolver to school and shooting them.

He fantasized about it, playing it out in his head, how sweet revenge would be on his tormentors and how they would never be able to torment him any more.

But reality came knocking; Joe knew the police would arrest him. He knew, for his parents had told him, that murderers were often executed or kept in a hellish prison for life. Joe didn't want that for himself.

It occurred to Joe that he could avoid that by killing himself after he killed his tormentors. That sounded somewhat appealing... after all, his life seemed to be an endless misery... and another two years at that school felt like eternity to a 13yo.

But Joe's parents had brought him up to believe in God, a God who had this commandment called "Thou Shalt not Murder". Joe remembered the preacher saying that after death every man had to face his God and answer for what he'd done in life.

Joe got the shakes about the idea of facing God after murdering three of his fellow students, and decided that the fantasy of shooting them was going to have to remain a fantasy. He struggled and found other ways to cope with the bullying and insults, and he killed no one.

Because he'd been taught about God and the Ten Commandments.

True story... possible school shooting averted because a couple of parents taught Joe their religion.


Well, how about that....
 
...True story... possible school shooting averted because a couple of parents taught Joe their religion...

however, one could teach their child about the Crusades, the Inquisition, Colonialism, Manifest Destiny, and that child will learn that violence has its place....even as an expression of faith.

its silly to suggest that teaching about the Bible, will automatically make one a peaceful, kind, and gentle soul.

cases in point: Anders Breivik & Eric Rudolph.
 

Hmm Maybe if TJ Lane got burned at the stake and the barbecue was broadcast widely the next loser who decides to shoot up a school might decide that roasting alive might not be a great idea
 


 
Hmm Maybe if TJ Lane got burned at the stake and the barbecue was broadcast widely the next loser who decides to shoot up a school might decide that roasting alive might not be a great idea

or, we could bring back the Four-Winds.
 
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