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Ankara could let Russia use its Incirlik airbase to fight ISIS – Turkish FM

Beaudreaux

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I saw this as I was wandering around the interwebs today -

This will not end well for Turkey and their relationship with NATO and the EU... if it's even true.

Given the source (RT) it's possible that it's just a propaganda spin.

However, given that Erdogan has been crawling on his knees to Putin following his military shot down the Russian fighter/bomber, it's also possible, given that Obama told him as far as the US and NATO were concerned regarding Russia - YOYO (You're On Your Own). On one hand, I can see how the US wouldn't want to be dragged into an armed conflict with Russia over a shoot-down done by Turkey under questionable circumstances, yet on the other hand, they are a NATO alley, and we have a large and extremely important ongoing operation at Incirlik that is critical to our operations in that region of the world (and has been for decades), not just within Turkey as a NATO alley. Given the heated aggressive actions of Russia toward Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states and now the Balkans, I just can't see it as acceptable for the US or NATO to sit by and allow this to occur under current treaties and agreements. This may just be Erdogan's way of putting pressure on Obama and NATO to get what he wants from us? I can't tell yet. Either way, it's still a very high stakes gamble on the part of Erdogan.

Anyone heard anything else about this? I can't imagine that the US military would be happy having Russian forces on the same flight line with US assets. The security implications are immense.

Ankara could let Russia use its Incirlik airbase to fight ISIS – Turkish FM

Published time: 4 Jul, 2016 07:36
Edited time: 4 Jul, 2016 08:13

The statement came from Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu during his interview with TRT channel.

The top diplomat has acknowledged that Moscow might be given the green light to use Turkey’s Incirlik airbase to engage Islamic State targets in Syria. As of now, Russian aircraft make their sorties from Khmeimim airbase in Syria’s Latakia province.

“We will cooperate with everybody who is fighting Islamic State (ISIS/ISIL),” Cavusoglu said, pointing out that “Ankara has opened the Incirlik airbase to all those wishing to join the active fight.”

“Why not cooperate with Russia in the same manner? Turkey is ready for such cooperation. Terrorism is our common enemy. Joint efforts are important to avoid negative incidents [among sides fighting ISIS],” the minister said.

[...]
 

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Didn't Russia shoot down a Turkish aircraft recently?
 

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Didn't Russia shoot down a Turkish aircraft recently?

I don't remember, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'll look.

EDIT: The only thing I can find in a quick search was about the Turks shooting down the SU-24.

Russia seems to like shooting down everyone else's planes, so it could be possible.
 

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I saw this as I was wandering around the interwebs today -

This will not end well for Turkey and their relationship with NATO and the EU... if it's even true.

Given the source (RT) it's possible that it's just a propaganda spin.

However, given that Erdogan has been crawling on his knees to Putin following his military shot down the Russian fighter/bomber, it's also possible, given that Obama told him as far as the US and NATO were concerned regarding Russia - YOYO (You're On Your Own). On one hand, I can see how the US wouldn't want to be dragged into an armed conflict with Russia over a shoot-down done by Turkey under questionable circumstances, yet on the other hand, they are a NATO alley, and we have a large and extremely important ongoing operation at Incirlik that is critical to our operations in that region of the world (and has been for decades), not just within Turkey as a NATO alley. Given the heated aggressive actions of Russia toward Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states and now the Balkans, I just can't see it as acceptable for the US or NATO to sit by and allow this to occur under current treaties and agreements. This may just be Erdogan's way of putting pressure on Obama and NATO to get what he wants from us? I can't tell yet. Either way, it's still a very high stakes gamble on the part of Erdogan.

Anyone heard anything else about this? I can't imagine that the US military would be happy having Russian forces on the same flight line with US assets. The security implications are immense.

I was stationed at Incirlik, you do realize its a base with US service members, rented and paid by US tax payers per a SOFA. The OP should do some research before posting idiocy. Do you even have a basic understanding of Turkish Russian relations? If you did you would realize how off the mark you are
 

Beaudreaux

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I was stationed at Incirlik, you do realize its a base with US service members, rented and paid by US tax payers per a SOFA. The OP should do some research before posting idiocy. Do you even have a basic understanding of Turkish Russian relations? If you did you would realize how off the mark you are

I've deployed to, and out of, Incirlik and other bases in the region. What part, exactly, was off the mark? Did you not see where I mentioned treaties and agreements? NATO is based on a treaty, and our presence at Incirlik is governed by a SOFA (status of forces agreement) which is an agreement - if you'd like, read this: MilitaryINSTALLATIONS - U.S. Department of Defense

Again, what parts, exactly, are off the mark? Or, was this just a drive by post?
 

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I've deployed to, and out of, Incirlik and other bases in the region. What part, exactly, was off the mark? Did you not see where I mentioned treaties and agreements? NATO is based on a treaty, and our presence at Incirlik is governed by a SOFA (status of forces agreement) which is an agreement - if you'd like, read this: MilitaryINSTALLATIONS - U.S. Department of Defense

Again, what parts, exactly, are off the mark? Or, was this just a drive by post?

You understand nothing of Turkish Russian relations or the history, if you did you would not have posted. Read my post, i have said it twice, cant make it any clearer.
 

JANFU

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I was stationed at Incirlik, you do realize its a base with US service members, rented and paid by US tax payers per a SOFA. The OP should do some research before posting idiocy. Do you even have a basic understanding of Turkish Russian relations? If you did you would realize how off the mark you are

How much thought did you put into your reply?
 

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How much thought did you put into your reply?

As much as you have, does that answer your question? I have a masters in modern European history, your post indicates your ignorance of the geopolitical issues of the area, and i dont have time to school an obvious amateur.
 

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You understand nothing of Turkish Russian relations or the history, if you did you would not have posted. Read my post, i have said it twice, cant make it any clearer.

In your first post, you accused me of not understanding SOFA's and a number of other things. Now it's just me supposedly not understanding Russo-Turkish relations or the history. For future reference, telling me what you think I do or do not understand, is not telling me anything other than your opinion. I've asked twice now, and all I get is personal insults, rather than facts substantiated with evidence.
 

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In your first post, you accused me of not understanding SOFA's and a number of other things. Now it's just me supposedly not understanding Russo-Turkish relations or the history. For future reference, telling me what you think I do or do not understand, is not telling me anything other than your opinion. I've asked twice now, and all I get is personal insults, rather than facts substantiated with evidence.

Blah blah

Like I care enough to continue with amateur historians.
 

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How much thought did you put into your reply?

It would be strange as hell for a NATO member nation to allow Russia to use one of its airbases. If true, it's one more reason to kick Turkey out of NATO, or dissolve NATO completely as a relic of the Cold War that's no longer worth keeping. The U.S. has other airbases it could use to strike targets in Syria beside Incirlik--there are large bases near Irbil and northwest of Baghdad, and the British bases on Cyprus should be available. A carrier in the Mediterranean could also be used.
 

joG

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I saw this as I was wandering around the interwebs today -

This will not end well for Turkey and their relationship with NATO and the EU... if it's even true.

Given the source (RT) it's possible that it's just a propaganda spin.

However, given that Erdogan has been crawling on his knees to Putin following his military shot down the Russian fighter/bomber, it's also possible, given that Obama told him as far as the US and NATO were concerned regarding Russia - YOYO (You're On Your Own). On one hand, I can see how the US wouldn't want to be dragged into an armed conflict with Russia over a shoot-down done by Turkey under questionable circumstances, yet on the other hand, they are a NATO alley, and we have a large and extremely important ongoing operation at Incirlik that is critical to our operations in that region of the world (and has been for decades), not just within Turkey as a NATO alley. Given the heated aggressive actions of Russia toward Ukraine, Georgia, the Baltic states and now the Balkans, I just can't see it as acceptable for the US or NATO to sit by and allow this to occur under current treaties and agreements. This may just be Erdogan's way of putting pressure on Obama and NATO to get what he wants from us? I can't tell yet. Either way, it's still a very high stakes gamble on the part of Erdogan.

Anyone heard anything else about this? I can't imagine that the US military would be happy having Russian forces on the same flight line with US assets. The security implications are immense.

We have certainly played Syria badly. But the problems with Turkey go deeper and further back. I very much Obama can handle either situation and kerry is certainly not up to the job any better.
 

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Your genuflexion is respectfully acknowledged.

Feel free to bow to my superior knowledge on the subject, no problem. I tutor history part time, can you give a discount along with a basic understanding of the region. Later !!
 

Beaudreaux

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We have certainly played Syria badly. But the problems with Turkey go deeper and further back. I very much Obama can handle either situation and kerry is certainly not up to the job any better.

I think Kerry could do it if he had the approval to do so. I don't think Obama understands or cares about the strategic necessity of having a NATO/US presence in Turkey for numerous reasons. Obama has moved toward a retraction of US military assets worldwide, with the exception of the west Pacific in what he called our "Pivot to Asia." Although, Turkey is part of both Asia and Europe, with the Strait being the dividing line.
 

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Feel free to bow to my superior knowledge on the subject, no problem. I tutor history part time, can you give a discount along with a basic understanding of the region. Later !!

All I asked was that you provide detail to your assertions. You refused, obfuscated, insulted, and now retreat. I have no idea why? You are welcome to answer at any point, by simply describing your claim in detail with evidence through citations that are linked to outside sources. I understand that you say you don't have the time, yet you seem to have enough time to post hit and run posts like the above. That actually speaks volumes for you instead.
 

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I don't remember, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'll look.

EDIT: The only thing I can find in a quick search was about the Turks shooting down the SU-24.

Russia seems to like shooting down everyone else's planes, so it could be possible.


Your OP says it happened...



"However, given that Erdogan has been crawling on his knees to Putin following his military shot down the Russian fighter/bomber,..."
 

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All I asked was that you provide detail to your assertions. You refused, obfuscated, insulted, and now retreat. I have no idea why? You are welcome to answer at any point, by simply describing your claim in detail with evidence through citations that are linked to outside sources. I understand that you say you don't have the time, yet you seem to have enough time to post hit and run posts like the above. That actually speaks volumes for you instead.

You assume way to much about me, explains your thoughts on the geopolitical issues of the area.
 

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You understand nothing of Turkish Russian relations or the history, if you did you would not have posted. Read my post, i have said it twice, cant make it any clearer.

You've said Beaudreaux is off the mark. In what ways? Seems churlish to make a claim such as this and then be unwilling to back it up with specifics.

I will freely admit that I'm not even an amateur historian of Turkey-Russia relations, but I am eager to learn. With your Master's, which you thought important enough to mention as an appeal to authority, I'd really like to know what you disagree with in the OP and why.
 

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It would be strange as hell for a NATO member nation to allow Russia to use one of its airbases. If true, it's one more reason to kick Turkey out of NATO, or dissolve NATO completely as a relic of the Cold War that's no longer worth keeping. The U.S. has other airbases it could use to strike targets in Syria beside Incirlik--there are large bases near Irbil and northwest of Baghdad, and the British bases on Cyprus should be available. A carrier in the Mediterranean could also be used.

Do you recall Turkey planning to purchase Aid Defense kit from China?? Which was later scrapped.

Confusion over Turkey’s air defense system - DEFENSE UPDATE
In 2013, Turkey selected, over European and U.S. rivals, a Chinese contender for the construction of its first long-range air and anti-missile defense system. Last November it scrapped that competition, saying two local companies would instead build the air defense system. Now, it has invited the same bidders to cooperate with the Turkish companies for the development of the system while unofficially courting for the purchase of a different system. When I asked a senior defense procurement official for some clarification, he replied with one word: “Confusion.”

In September 2013, the winner of the Turkish contract was China Precision Machinery Import-Export Corp. (CPMIEC), which offered a $3.44-billion solution. That decision brought Turkey under heavy pressure from its NATO allies and while negotiating with the CPMIEC Turkey also launched parallel talks with the U.S. partnership of Lockheed Martin and Raytheon, maker of the Patriot system, and with European Eurosam, maker of the SAMP/T.


Turkey Scraps $3.4B Air Defense Contract
The contract will now most likely become indigenous as the government considers commissioning the work to military electronics specialist Aselsan, Turkey's biggest defense firm, and missile maker Roketsan. Both companies are state controlled.

Only a few weeks ago, Turkey's top procurement official, Ismail Demir, said that Ankara reached a "certain clarity" in its pending decision on the air defense system. "We are reviewing several parameters. We want to make a decision without a further extension," Demir said.
 

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As much as you have, does that answer your question? I have a masters in modern European history, your post indicates your ignorance of the geopolitical issues of the area, and i dont have time to school an obvious amateur.
Regardless of your oh so impressive credentials...the OP cited an article (with links to other stories supporting the premise. And you counter with the awe inspiring...Nuh UH!!! Gotta be honest with you...you are coming across as petulant, ignorant...and kinda douchey.
 

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Regardless of your oh so impressive credentials...the OP cited an article (with links to other stories supporting the premise. And you counter with the awe inspiring...Nuh UH!!! Gotta be honest with you...you are coming across
 

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Regardless of your oh so impressive credentials...the OP cited an article (with links to other stories supporting the premise. And you counter with the awe inspiring...Nuh UH!!! Gotta be honest with you...you are coming across

Uh so? You come across as ignorant on the topic you are posting about, but i will take the high road and refrain from calling you childish names. You may want to try it.
 

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Regardless of your oh so impressive credentials...the OP cited an article (with links to other stories supporting the premise. And you counter with the awe inspiring...Nuh UH!!! Gotta be honest with you...you are coming across

Consider yourself reported to mods for name calling

Enjoy
 

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Wow, Turkey has officially pulled a complete 180 in regard to Russia.
 
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