• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

And here comes the Socialism (1 Viewer)

MrWonka

DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 21, 2016
Messages
12,210
Reaction score
7,341
Location
Charleston, SC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian - Left
Whenever liberals point out that the N in Nazi stands for Nationalist some right wing shit head always wants to claim that the Nazis were Nationalist 'Socialist' thinking that the socialist part is more important.
Well, today, we're seeing the beginning of the full transition of the Republican party into just that. Trump is yet again stealing a Bernie Sanders and, to a lesser extent, Joe Biden idea. He's signed an order requiring drug companies to charge the same prices to Americans as they do to other foreign countries.
He's using the power of Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices just like Bernie has long advocated for, and Joe Biden attempted to do during his term. Things which at the time were attacked by the right as socialist price controls.

Tariffs, Price Controls... Trump even advocated for raising taxes on the wealthy. It's all socialism. Or at the least, it's what Republicans have been telling us was socialism for the last 40 years.

It's important to keep in mind, that many people who supported the Nazis did so because they helped form a bullwork against what they considered full blown Communism. That Nazis were socialists, but was key and different about them was that they were also Nationalist.

In the minds of Trump's racist xenophobic base, socialism isn't the problem so long as it's only for white Christians. They rejected socialism from the Bernie camp because in their minds it was white Christian tax dollars being used to benefit poor minorities and immigrants.
Trump has convinced them that this is all fine when he does it because they know he's a racist piece of shit who will only let the money go to members of their master race.

Ultimately, Fascism is what you get when you mix Socialism with Toxic Masculinity.

Bernie Sanders' policies are basically a Minivan. A very useful vehicle with plenty of space and storage for the whole family, but because it appeals to and has become associated with Soccer moms, men won't drive it.
Instead they want to spend twice as much money on a jacked-up Jeep or in this case a Cybertruck, even though they're going to use it the exact same way they'd use a Mini-van, but it makes their penis feel bigger.

It all reminds me of that movie Inception. In the film, they're trying to make this man think he should sell his company, but they can't just plant the idea in his head in a dream, they have to make him think it was his idea in the first place.
For decades Republicans have framed Liberalism and Socialism as something that Feminazis, educated types, big city elitists wanted to help out poor minorities, when in reality it was mostly rural whites that would actually benefit from these policies.

Just more proof that liberals have been right about Trump supporters all along. It's not Socialism you hate. It's women and minorities. As long as it's framed as a white Christian man's idea fighting for white Christian men, the same idea on steroids is suddenly fine.
 
I don't think it's going to happen. Republican made it the law of the land back int he early 2000's that Medicare could not negotiate drug prices.

I don't think an executive order can change that and I'm almost positive that Republicans are not passing a law through Congress allowing negotiated drug prices.

All of this fake populist stuff right before the tax bill makes me think the tax bill is going to be REALLY bad. I think tariffs are going to be made permanent and tax rates are going to get slashed.

But you are right, they seem to love socialism type policies when it's thrown in when it's paired with a Christian White Nationalist viewpoint.
 
trump was a big democrat supporter most of his life.
But an EO can't override laws.

In fact, EOs have no relevance outside the fed gov't.
 
That Nazis were socialists, but was key and different about them was that they were also Nationalist.

Very good, but the Nazis weren't unique. Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, Mao, and many other leftists were also fierce nationalists. Early American progressives were also nationalists. Remember that nationalism is just another form of collectivism.
 
Whenever liberals point out that the N in Nazi stands for Nationalist some right wing shit head always wants to claim that the Nazis were Nationalist 'Socialist' thinking that the socialist part is more important.
Well, today, we're seeing the beginning of the full transition of the Republican party into just that. Trump is yet again stealing a Bernie Sanders and, to a lesser extent, Joe Biden idea. He's signed an order requiring drug companies to charge the same prices to Americans as they do to other foreign countries.
He's using the power of Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices just like Bernie has long advocated for, and Joe Biden attempted to do during his term. Things which at the time were attacked by the right as socialist price controls.

Tariffs, Price Controls... Trump even advocated for raising taxes on the wealthy. It's all socialism. Or at the least, it's what Republicans have been telling us was socialism for the last 40 years.

It's important to keep in mind, that many people who supported the Nazis did so because they helped form a bullwork against what they considered full blown Communism. That Nazis were socialists, but was key and different about them was that they were also Nationalist.

In the minds of Trump's racist xenophobic base, socialism isn't the problem so long as it's only for white Christians. They rejected socialism from the Bernie camp because in their minds it was white Christian tax dollars being used to benefit poor minorities and immigrants.
Trump has convinced them that this is all fine when he does it because they know he's a racist piece of shit who will only let the money go to members of their master race.

Ultimately, Fascism is what you get when you mix Socialism with Toxic Masculinity.

Bernie Sanders' policies are basically a Minivan. A very useful vehicle with plenty of space and storage for the whole family, but because it appeals to and has become associated with Soccer moms, men won't drive it.
Instead they want to spend twice as much money on a jacked-up Jeep or in this case a Cybertruck, even though they're going to use it the exact same way they'd use a Mini-van, but it makes their penis feel bigger.

It all reminds me of that movie Inception. In the film, they're trying to make this man think he should sell his company, but they can't just plant the idea in his head in a dream, they have to make him think it was his idea in the first place.
For decades Republicans have framed Liberalism and Socialism as something that Feminazis, educated types, big city elitists wanted to help out poor minorities, when in reality it was mostly rural whites that would actually benefit from these policies.

Just more proof that liberals have been right about Trump supporters all along. It's not Socialism you hate. It's women and minorities. As long as it's framed as a white Christian man's idea fighting for white Christian men, the same idea on steroids is suddenly fine.

Good to see you again, MrWonka. It's been too long.

Yeah, I would say the problem so many Republicans have with "socialism" is that the social benefits are shared with the "undeserving," i.e. racial minorities.
 
. . .Tariffs, Price Controls... Trump even advocated for raising taxes on the wealthy. It's all socialism. Or at the least, it's what Republicans have been telling us was socialism for the last 40 years. . .
Hmmm. . . . I never heard anyone say that taxes and tariffs are socialism. Not anyone who understands what socialism is, anyways.
Just more proof that liberals have been right about Trump supporters all along.
Nonsense. Liberals favorite pastime is underestimating Trump and pretending to be morally superior to Trump supporters.
It's not Socialism you hate. It's women and minorities. As long as it's framed as a white Christian man's idea fighting for white Christian men, the same idea on steroids is suddenly fine.
Nah - I don't hate women - I adore women. I don't hate minorities - most of the people in my family are minorities.

I hate socialism.

"Socialism in general has a record of failure so blatant that only an intellectual could ignore or evade it." - Thomas Sowell
 
Hmmm. . . . I never heard anyone say that taxes and tariffs are socialism. Not anyone who understands what socialism is, anyways.

Nonsense. Liberals favorite pastime is underestimating Trump and pretending to be morally superior to Trump supporters.

Nah - I don't hate women - I adore women. I don't hate minorities - most of the people in my family are minorities.

I hate socialism and the ignorant people who push for it
The size and scope of Trump's are by far the biggest government intervention into the economy for the entire postwar era. It isn't even close. Seems a lot of "libertarians" are very selective in their outrage over socialism.
 
I don't think it's going to happen. Republican made it the law of the land back int he early 2000's that Medicare could not negotiate drug prices.

I don't think an executive order can change that and I'm almost positive that Republicans are not passing a law through Congress allowing negotiated drug prices.

All of this fake populist stuff right before the tax bill makes me think the tax bill is going to be REALLY bad. I think tariffs are going to be made permanent and tax rates are going to get slashed.

But you are right, they seem to love socialism type policies when it's thrown in when it's paired with a Christian White Nationalist viewpoint.
Given that even cocaine dealers give bulk discounts for big buys, what anyway was the logic of the GOP with respect to the big quantities that Medicare purchases?
 
This would be a good thing. Which is why it won't happen under Trump.
 
Hmmm. . . . I never heard anyone say that taxes and tariffs are socialism.

Never?

Heavy Taxation is the lifeblood of any socialist system. Without taxes, how else can the wealth be redistributed? How can the government get funding for all the "free" stuff?
 
Good to see you again, MrWonka. It's been too long.

Yeah, I would say the problem so many Republicans have with "socialism" is that the social benefits are shared with the "undeserving," i.e. racial minorities.
While ignoring the fact that a ton of those same Republicans and MAGAs are on those social benefits.
 
Given that even cocaine dealers give bulk discounts for big buys, what anyway was the logic of the GOP with respect to the big quantities that Medicare purchases?
They called it price fixing, they said it would impact competitiveness in the field etc etc.

A lost of BS, everyone at the time knew it was to benefit big pharma but people didn't hold it against the congressional members.

I think W is when Republicans learned they can practically get away with anything.
 
While ignoring the fact that a ton of those same Republicans and MAGAs are on those social benefits.

Oh, no inconsistency there. They are the deserving ones. They are the ones who are getting earned benefits. They are the ones who are genuinely disabled. They are the ones who have genuine difficulty in their lives.
 
They were. Your link doesnt claim what you think it does.
No, they weren't

Yes the article clarifies that the Nazis were not socialists.

"Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party."

........

Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished."

Now lie and say it doesn't say that.
 
Whenever liberals point out that the N in Nazi stands for Nationalist some right wing shit head always wants to claim that the Nazis were Nationalist 'Socialist' thinking that the socialist part is more important.
Well, today, we're seeing the beginning of the full transition of the Republican party into just that. Trump is yet again stealing a Bernie Sanders and, to a lesser extent, Joe Biden idea. He's signed an order requiring drug companies to charge the same prices to Americans as they do to other foreign countries.
He's using the power of Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices just like Bernie has long advocated for, and Joe Biden attempted to do during his term. Things which at the time were attacked by the right as socialist price controls.

Tariffs, Price Controls... Trump even advocated for raising taxes on the wealthy. It's all socialism. Or at the least, it's what Republicans have been telling us was socialism for the last 40 years.

It's important to keep in mind, that many people who supported the Nazis did so because they helped form a bullwork against what they considered full blown Communism. That Nazis were socialists, but was key and different about them was that they were also Nationalist.

In the minds of Trump's racist xenophobic base, socialism isn't the problem so long as it's only for white Christians. They rejected socialism from the Bernie camp because in their minds it was white Christian tax dollars being used to benefit poor minorities and immigrants.
Trump has convinced them that this is all fine when he does it because they know he's a racist piece of shit who will only let the money go to members of their master race.

Ultimately, Fascism is what you get when you mix Socialism with Toxic Masculinity.

Bernie Sanders' policies are basically a Minivan. A very useful vehicle with plenty of space and storage for the whole family, but because it appeals to and has become associated with Soccer moms, men won't drive it.
Instead they want to spend twice as much money on a jacked-up Jeep or in this case a Cybertruck, even though they're going to use it the exact same way they'd use a Mini-van, but it makes their penis feel bigger.

It all reminds me of that movie Inception. In the film, they're trying to make this man think he should sell his company, but they can't just plant the idea in his head in a dream, they have to make him think it was his idea in the first place.
For decades Republicans have framed Liberalism and Socialism as something that Feminazis, educated types, big city elitists wanted to help out poor minorities, when in reality it was mostly rural whites that would actually benefit from these policies.

Just more proof that liberals have been right about Trump supporters all along. It's not Socialism you hate. It's women and minorities. As long as it's framed as a white Christian man's idea fighting for white Christian men, the same idea on steroids is suddenly fine.

Nazis weren't socialists. Get off your high horse and think for a second. If the Nazis were Socialists, then why did they make a political alliance with the Conservative party, and not the Communist party?

Come on now let's be real for a second. Otto Von Bismark, the definition of European Conservatism was instrumental in passing universal healthcare in Germany during the Belle Epoque. That's because the tactics used to accomplish political aims, isn't necessarily what they believe in. Nazis are okay with tariffs because it's to protect the nation state. Socialists use tariffs to help limit the influence of capitalism in their country. Very very different reasons. Get over it. The right need to own up to their Nazi heritage.
 
I don't think it's going to happen. Republican made it the law of the land back int he early 2000's that Medicare could not negotiate drug prices.
FYI, the Inflation Reduction Act gives the Executive Branch the ability to negotiate drug prices for Medicare.

But that isn't what Dear Leader wants to do. He wants to declare by executive fiat that a) drug companies must set up their own direct-to-consumer pharmacies and b) that they must set prices for US consumers based on what other nations pay.

Hilariously, pharmaceuticals are not sweating it as much as you might think, because they're going to try and use it as an excuse to charge more in other nations, and Trump claims he's going to back them up. Presumably with tariff threats. :rolleyes:

All of this fake populist stuff right before the tax bill makes me think the tax bill is going to be REALLY bad.
Oh, we already know it's going to be a disaster. This won't distract from it.
 
You're conflating Heavy Taxes (which is the 2nd plank of the Communist Manifesto) with normal everyday taxes and tariffs that are needed for funding essential government functions. America had taxes and tariffs LONG before the communists and socialists invented Heavy oppressive taxes in 1848.

"The goal of socialism is communism" - Vladimir Lenin

"If socialists understood economics, they wouldn't be socialists." - Friedrich Hayek
 
Last edited:
No, they weren't

Yes the article clarifies that the Nazis were not socialists.

"Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. But to address this canard fully, one must begin with the birth of the party."

........

Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character. Within two months Hitler achieved full dictatorial power through the Enabling Act. In April 1933 communists, socialists, democrats, and Jews were purged from the German civil service, and trade unions were outlawed the following month. That July Hitler banned all political parties other than his own, and prominent members of the German Communist Party and the Social Democratic Party were arrested and imprisoned in concentration camps. Lest there be any remaining questions about the political character of the Nazi revolution, Hitler ordered the murder of Gregor Strasser, an act that was carried out on June 30, 1934, during the Night of the Long Knives. Any remaining traces of socialist thought in the Nazi Party had been extinguished."

Now lie and say it doesn't say that.

Read and learn.
 
So you cannot adress the quotations and citation that prove my point ?

Then you cite a wiki article that does not prove your point it proves mine

"Historian Karl Dietrich Bracher writes that to Hitler, the program was "little more than an effective, persuasive propaganda weapon for mobilizing and manipulating the masses. Once it had brought him to power, it became pure decoration"

You should have read that before posting it.

This is what wiki says about nazism.

"Nazism (/ˈnɑːtsɪzəm, ˈnæt-/ NA(H)T-siz-əm), formally named National Socialism (NS; German: Nationalsozialismus, German: [natsi̯oˈnaːlzotsi̯aˌlɪsmʊs] ), is the far-right totalitarian socio-political ideology and practices associated with Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party (NSDAP) in Germany.[1][2][3]"
 
Very good, but the Nazis weren't unique. Pol Pot, Ho Chi Minh, Castro, Mao, and many other leftists were also fierce nationalists. Early American progressives were also nationalists. Remember that nationalism is just another form of collectivism.
Is there something wrong with collectivism?

Anyone who loves and supports their country is practicing it.

Heroes give their all for the collective. We all appreciate heroes, right?
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top Bottom