Ancient Confession Found: 'We Invented Jesus Christ'

[OscarB63]

Hey - all the spiritually-challenged atheists can come up with is that God is BAD. If they want to hate God they can reap their due reward in the afterlife.

seems to me that atheists sure do spend a lot of time and effort hating a God that they claim they believe does not exist

 

[RogueWarrior]

Hey, I tried to help you out but it's not working.

You know what I can do, though - and this is a scholarly work I'm going to recommend for you - recommend you read the following five volume work:

"Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus," by Dr. Michael L. Brown

Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus - Complete Set Special | AskDrBrown

They're also available at Amazon.com individually.

There's some excellent research and information in those works if you're really interested in learning.

so now I have to do all the work for my unwanted conversion to your religion, nice for you, you lazy christian. Tell you what, I will put exactly the same effort into believing your magic man as I do for BigFoot, the ToothFAiry and fluffy miniature pink unicorns. Unless you care to provide some evidence for your assertion that your magic man is real?

 

[Logicman]

so now I have to do all the work for my unwanted conversion to your religion, nice for you, you lazy christian. Tell you what, I will put exactly the same effort into believing your magic man as I do for BigFoot, the ToothFAiry and fluffy miniature pink unicorns. Unless you care to provide some evidence for your assertion that your magic man is real?

I've given enough info in these threads to where any reasonable person without an anti-god agenda can see the truth about Jesus Christ. Why don't just you be honest with yourself and folks around here and admit you have an antichrist agenda and really don't give a rat's behind about finding out the truth?

Like Jeremiah 29:13 says, "You shall seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

You don't seek, you mock, and you want someone else to wet-nurse you and spin their wheels for you.

 

[RogueWarrior]

seems to me that atheists sure do spend a lot of time and effort hating a God that they claim they believe does not exist

I have not read anything that could be remotely be described as anger or hatred directed at any of the so called magic men of religion.
If that were the case, I must also hate unicorns, pixies, the toothfairy, bigfoot, santa claus, voldemort or any other of the fictional characters of history or literature that i do not believe in.

I just no longer believe in a god.
I am free!

:2wave:

on the other hand, religion really sucks. I gave up on religion a long time before i lost faith in gods. I just realized as teenager that religions are either stick and carrot or eternal suffering and in some cases both.
What kind of BS incentives/disincentives are those?

If religion is so freaking wonderful why does everyone have to bribed and/or threatened into joining? Bribes and threats are used when your product sucks, and everyone knows it.

Ford is having an employee pricing sale so come on down.
Any infomercial : call now AND WE WILL DOUBLE OUR OFFER (just pay separate S&H)!!

 

[RogueWarrior]

I've given enough info in these threads to where any reasonable person without an anti-god agenda can see the truth about Jesus Christ. Why don't just you be honest with yourself and folks around here and admit you have an antichrist agenda and really don't give a rat's behind about finding out the truth?

Like Jeremiah 29:13 says, "You shall seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

You don't seek, you mock, and you want someone else to wet-nurse you and spin their wheels for you.

Doesn't relieve you of your obligations re: 1 Peter 3:15. I know this sucks for you but it is your religion and your book sets the rules for your interaction with non believers.

 

[Logicman]

Doesn't relieve you of your obligations re: 1 Peter 3:15. I know this sucks for you but it is your religion and your book sets the rules for your interaction with non believers.

Jesus also talked about casting one's pearls before the swine.

 

[RogueWarrior]

Jesus also talked about casting one's pearls before the swine.

Ooooo sermon on the mount!!!!

Yes he supposedly did. Does that mean that some people are not saveable? So a tax paying homeowner and law abiding citizen is not worth trying to save but a serial killing pedophile on death row is?

 

[Logicman]

Ooooo sermon on the mount!!!!

Yes he supposedly did. Does that mean that some people are not saveable? So a tax paying homeowner and law abiding citizen is not worth trying to save but a serial killing pedophile on death row is?

Do they meet the condition Jesus set forth in Luke 13:3? "But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Have you ever read the Bible?

 

[RogueWarrior]

Do they meet the condition Jesus set forth in Luke 13:3? "But unless you repent, you too will all perish."

Have you ever read the Bible?

Yes I have and sunday school growing up.

You can make almost any argument by quoting various passages. Great book!

So a repentant serial killer pedophile is more desirable in heaven than an altruistic tax paying law abiding atheist citizen? Why would anyone want to spend eternity with a pedophilic serial killer?

 

[Logicman]

Yes I have and sunday school growing up.

You can make almost any argument by quoting various passages. Great book!

So a repentant serial killer pedophile is more desirable in heaven than an altruistic tax paying law abiding atheist citizen? Why would anyone want to spend eternity with a pedophilic serial killer?

If you've read the Bible as you claim you should know the answer to that. If not read Romans and Ephesians for starters.

 

[RogueWarrior]

If you've read the Bible as you claim you should know the answer to that. If not read Romans and Ephesians for starters.

I haven't memorized the bible or the other books i have read of the years.
Which passages do you suggest?

 

[Logicman]

I haven't memorized the bible or the other books i have read of the years.
Which passages do you suggest?

Romans chapters 3 and 4, and Ephesians chapter 2.

 

[The Misanthrope]

A really interesting (and really long) book incorporates this history in a more or less respectful way. THE SOURCE by James Michener

Hey, probably my favourite book!

 

[specklebang]

Hey, probably my favourite book!

Yes, it is an awesome book. I read it twice, almost back to back, all 1000 pages of it. I just looked to see if there was an audio version and they want $300!!!!! for it. Michener did excellent research and extrapolation. In his version (and I find it credible), the Christ business was a marketing tool developed 300 years after the (purported) birth of Christ.

Still, I think the "Christ Concept" is a good one. Too bad nobody ever followed it.

 

[The Misanthrope]

Yes, it is an awesome book. I read it twice, almost back to back, all 1000 pages of it. I just looked to see if there was an audio version and they want $300!!!!! for it. Michener did excellent research and extrapolation. In his version (and I find it credible), the Christ business was a marketing tool developed 300 years after the (purported) birth of Christ.

Still, I think the "Christ Concept" is a good one. Too bad nobody ever followed it.

I loved the ingenious, but simple when you think about it, way they used in The Source to find their way underground when they dug that water tunnel. Do you remember? They knew the direction they wanted to go on the surface, so by sighting range poles between point A and B they obtained their correct surface line. Next they placed two pegs, one each side of the vertical shaft they had dug, in line with this surface line then ran a string line between them. From this line they then dropped two plumbobs down either side of the shaft and Voila! they had the line they needed to follow underground.

I used this principle on a remote volcanic island in Tonga (called Niuafoou) to plan a pipe line through jungle from the water filled volcano's crater to one of the villages. At the I was installing navigational aids for the STOL airstrip the Australian government had built for the locals and had heaps of plastic electrical conduit left over and there is no water supply except rain water tanks on the island. So I gave it to the Tongans who were very grateful. Lovely people Tongans.

 

[specklebang]

I loved the ingenious, but simple when you think about it, way they used in The Source to find their way underground when they dug that water tunnel. Do you remember? They knew the direction they wanted to go on the surface, so by sighting range poles between point A and B they obtained their correct surface line. Next they placed two pegs, one each side of the vertical shaft they had dug, in line with this surface line then ran a string line between them. From this line they then dropped two plumbobs down either side of the shaft and Voila! they had the line they needed to follow underground.

I used this principle on a remote volcanic island in Tonga (called Niuafoou) to plan a pipe line through jungle from the water filled volcano's crater to one of the villages. At the I was installing navigational aids for the STOL airstrip the Australian government had built for the locals and had heaps of plastic electrical conduit left over and there is no water supply except rain water tanks on the island. So I gave it to the Tongans who were very grateful. Lovely people Tongans.

I read it too many years ago to retain anything but the fuzziest sense of it although the development of Christianity was very interesting as I fragmentarily remember.

I just checked Amazon and there was apparently an audio version once upon a time. Now it's asking for $300 but if I can ever get my hands on it, I'd like to listen to it.

Old school engineering.

 

[The Misanthrope]

I read it too many years ago to retain anything but the fuzziest sense of it although the development of Christianity was very interesting as I fragmentarily remember.

I just checked Amazon and there was apparently an audio version once upon a time. Now it's asking for $300 but if I can ever get my hands on it, I'd like to listen to it.

Old school engineering.

Here ya go Free The Source - James A. Michener Audiobook Download, Audio Book Torrent For Free, 67365

 

[specklebang]

Here ya go Free The Source - James A. Michener Audiobook Download, Audio Book Torrent For Free, 67365

Found it at my library.

 

[RGacky3]

You seem to be asserting that there is only one way to interpret the bible. Of course the fact that there are many different versions of the bible seems to escape the theist. All these different domination's believe that they are correct just as I am sure that you believe that you are correct in your interpretation of Revelations.

I am sure that it makes you feel better believing that I am ignorant about the bible.

The god of the bible is believed by the faithful to be omnipotent, a perfect being that can make mistakes and cannot sin. Humans though can make mistake and sin. That same gods knowledge is absolute. Humans though are quite ignorant compared to said god. In fact since gods knowledge is perfect humans dont even register on the knowledge map comparatively with the bibles god. We would be like a infant at birth that lacks any real useful knowledge. If a baby pisses in your face you have no right to get mad at the infant. So humans are stupid and god is not.

A all knowing god casts judgement on humans who lack the knowledge to make a informed decision. As the bible and revelations teach that judgement involves making people suffer and eternal death. The bible contradicts itself in its main fundamental message. Love by a god should not involve suffering or death. Or are you going to tell me now that the bible doesnt say anything of the sorts?

Either way its all just a bunch of fictional religious crap IMO. You can believe in a book if you want, I dont really care what you believe. But it is just a book. The only reason that anyone puts any worth into the bible is because they want to believe in a afterlife so that when they die it wont be the end of them. The bible is a crutch for the fear of death. But what about people like myself that dont fear it? What worth does a promise of afterlife have with someone that accepts their own eventful nothingness?

Having had cancer I sat in my foxhole and found my peace, and it didnt involve some old book with fanciful stories. So good luck with your own peace.

You left out the past.

There is ONE way that the writers intended their writings to be interpreted ....

The different versions of the bible don't bother me, as long as the versions are good translations, I'm not claiming to be able to exegite Revelation, but I can be 100% sure that you're exegesis doesn't work because I've studied enough of it to know that, and NO ONE who has studied the bible would give what you're saying about what you think Revelation is trying to say a second thought, because it's just clear ignorance.

We dont' get mad at a baby missing in our face, not because he lacks useful knowledge, it's because he's not morally responsible for that action yet. If einstein or a illiterate dude murders someone they are equally culpible because they are both moral agents.

I can explain the whole theodicy of the bible, of how a loving God can allow suffering and death, but it would take a while, and I'm not interested in that, I'm interested in bull**** uses of the biblical text, be it from atheists or evangelicals.

As far as the claim that people only believe in God because they are afraid of death ... Evidence? THere have been studies on this .. evidence? I can psycho analyse anything, I can say you don't believe in God because you don't want to have any moral authority ... and it would be just as valid as your claim that religious people are just sacred of death.

If you don't believe ... then fine, but don't go around pretending or claiming the scriptures say something they don't.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

There is ONE way that the writers intended their writings to be interpreted ....

The different versions of the bible don't bother me, as long as the versions are good translations, I'm not claiming to be able to exegite Revelation, but I can be 100% sure that you're exegesis doesn't work because I've studied enough of it to know that, and NO ONE who has studied the bible would give what you're saying about what you think Revelation is trying to say a second thought, because it's just clear ignorance.

We dont' get mad at a baby missing in our face, not because he lacks useful knowledge, it's because he's not morally responsible for that action yet. If einstein or a illiterate dude murders someone they are equally culpible because they are both moral agents.

I can explain the whole theodicy of the bible, of how a loving God can allow suffering and death, but it would take a while, and I'm not interested in that, I'm interested in bull**** uses of the biblical text, be it from atheists or evangelicals.

As far as the claim that people only believe in God because they are afraid of death ... Evidence? THere have been studies on this .. evidence? I can psycho analyse anything, I can say you don't believe in God because you don't want to have any moral authority ... and it would be just as valid as your claim that religious people are just sacred of death.

If you don't believe ... then fine, but don't go around pretending or claiming the scriptures say something they don't.

I did not say "that people only believe in God because they are afraid of death" if you are going to argue my assertions dont lie about what I said.

Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”[a] And they cast lots to divide his garments. What does that mean to you?

Many people use Luke 23:34 as a tool to explain forgiveness and mercy. They go on about how the people involved in crucifying jesus did not understand what they were doing. The assumption is that us mortals are ignorant and the immortals are not. Those people that killed jesus (in the bible) had all of their moral responsibilities but jesus asked god to forgive them anyways because they lacked the needed knowledge. By that standard we all lack the needed knowledge and therefor there is no reason to believe in jesus or god since forgiveness should be automatically given to us ignorant mortals. Why should a god worry about what we think if he takes us to his heaven where sin cannot exist. Why put some people in hell when he has the power to forgive everyone regardless of anything? The answer is because the bible wasnt written very well it contradicts itself and renders itself useless.

 

[RGacky3]

I did not say "that people only believe in God because they are afraid of death" if you are going to argue my assertions dont lie about what I said.

Here is what you said

"The only reason that anyone puts any worth into the bible is because they want to believe in a afterlife so that when they die it wont be the end of them. The bible is a crutch for the fear of death." Which is basically what I said you said .... do you stand by that statement?

Luke 23:34 And Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”[a] And they cast lots to divide his garments. What does that mean to you?

Many people use Luke 23:34 as a tool to explain forgiveness and mercy. They go on about how the people involved in crucifying jesus did not understand what they were doing. The assumption is that us mortals are ignorant and the immortals are not. Those people that killed jesus (in the bible) had all of their moral responsibilities but jesus asked god to forgive them anyways because they lacked the needed knowledge. By that standard we all lack the needed knowledge and therefor there is no reason to believe in jesus or god since forgiveness should be automatically given to us ignorant mortals. Why should a god worry about what we think if he takes us to his heaven where sin cannot exist. Why put some people in hell when he has the power to forgive everyone regardless of anything? The answer is because the bible wasnt written very well it contradicts itself and renders itself useless.

The point of Luke 23:34 is Jesus asking forgiveness for them becuase they specifically don't know that they are killing the messiah sent from God, you cant' take that and say all mortals are ignorant about everything, Jesus asked God to forgive them for a specific action that they we're doing out of ignorance, not every moral choice they make.

We all lack the needed knowledge for what? It depends on what we know in what situation.

BTW I don't believe in hell, in the sense of an eternal punishment, nor does the bible teach that if studied carefully.

But here is what you're doing here, you're taking a specific bible passage, interpreting it VERY LOOSELY, infact in a way that shows you don't know anything about the scirptures, and then claiming "aha, the bible contradicts itself." The point is that when God judges, he takes into account the knowledge that we have to work with.

 

[phattonez]

Interesting to say the least. I'll be interested to see how this pans out.

Link is here. Ancient Confession Found: We Invented Jesus Christ

I invented the Roman Empire. Seriously, want to see my signed confession?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Here is what you said

"The only reason that anyone puts any worth into the bible is because they want to believe in a afterlife so that when they die it wont be the end of them. The bible is a crutch for the fear of death." Which is basically what I said you said .... do you stand by that statement?

And yet I did not say: "that people only believe in God because they are afraid of death" I guess that you think that the bible is god? Once again you are trying to take what I said and twist it into what you want me to have said so that you can argue that instead of my actual assertions.

The point of Luke 23:34 is Jesus asking forgiveness for them becuase they specifically don't know that they are killing the messiah sent from God, you cant' take that and say all mortals are ignorant about everything, Jesus asked God to forgive them for a specific action that they we're doing out of ignorance, not every moral choice they make.

What makes those people different from anyone today that rejects that there was a person named jesus that was the messiah? The people killing jesus somehow get a pass but the people that were not even alive then must go to hell for not believing that jesus was the messiah?

We all lack the needed knowledge for what? It depends on what we know in what situation.

BTW I don't believe in hell, in the sense of an eternal punishment, nor does the bible teach that if studied carefully.

But here is what you're doing here, you're taking a specific bible passage, interpreting it VERY LOOSELY, infact in a way that shows you don't know anything about the scirptures, and then claiming "aha, the bible contradicts itself." The point is that when God judges, he takes into account the knowledge that we have to work with.[/QUOTE]
Ah yes the 'you are ignorant and know nothing about the bible' line.

Ok so lets assume that I am ignorant and dont understand the bible, so when I die in my ignorance god will judge me in what way? Didnt you just state that the jesus's killers didnt understand that jesus was the messiah and jesus himself asked god to forgive them for they knew not what they were doing?

WHat about the people that never read the bible and were never believers? What about the people that died before the new testament was widely known? WHy does the bible make any difference at all? Why should a god reject a person based on their rejection of that god? The bible is full of what happens to people that reject god and jesus as the messiah. I can either accept that a god exists that wants to punish people for rejecting it or accept the absurdity of such a petty childish god and reject the bible as silly fiction. It is my choice right? Does my rejection of your holy book as fiction threaten you in any way, shape, or form? As I have told you a thousand times before believe whatever you want but dont call me ignorant just because I reject your beliefs.

 

[falcata]

I invented the Roman Empire. Seriously, want to see my signed confession?

Why even make this comment?

The difference here is that you were not alive 2000 years ago. The people who allegedly wrote this note were. Unless you were there and could tell us exactly what happened, this comment makes close to no sense.

 

[phattonez]

Why even make this comment?

The difference here is that you were not alive 2000 years ago. The people who allegedly wrote this note were. Unless you were there and could tell us exactly what happened, this comment makes close to no sense.

That makes it more reliable? If someone during the reign of Henry VIII said that he made up Henry VIII, would you have any reason to believe him, especially if you do not know him?