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Analysis of “Stand Your Ground” Self-defense Laws and Statewide Rates of Homicides and Firearm Homicides

Chillfolks said:
The trolling is taking an extra stupid turn today, and that says something given the person doing it
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Well, he's gone to bed a couple nights in a row now, knowing that his name was rapidly disappearing as "last poster." Likely leads to a bit of agitation.
 
TurtleDude said:
harsh punishments or getting "Rittenhoused" tends to prevent recidivism though. I do agree with most of what you say about criminals not expecting to be caught. A criminal law professor I had in law school-a guy who was the death penalty PD for a major league PDs office at one time, said his studies found that certainty of punishment, rather than severity, was more likely to deter hard core criminals. in other words, if every single murderer got 8 years for committing a murder, than would cause far more deference if one in 10 was boiled alive (his example)
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I'll share a tidbit from a long time ago:

The local newspaper extensively interviewed convicted criminals serving time or passing through County (jail). Of the myriad of questions, one question was asking what the criminals feared the most? It wasn't jail, wasn't cops, wasn't having a record, wasn't the judge. What was it? It was a homeowner with a gun! Yep. That says it all!
 
Chomsky said:
I'll share a tidbit from a long time ago:

The local newspaper extensively interviewed convicted criminals serving time or passing through County (jail). Of the myriad of questions, one question was asking what the criminals feared the most? It wasn't jail, wasn't cops, wasn't having a record, wasn't the judge. What was it? It was a homeowner with a gun! Yep. That says it all!
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Studies have shown that it is certainty of some penalty that is more a deterrence than a harsh penalty with little chance of being inflicted. Most criminals serving time have already "got away" with several crimes that they didn't serve time for, or only minimal time. In our county right now, getting caught stealing is often little more than an inconvenience to a thief. Criminally disposed people often aren't long range thinkers either. They're often more about immediate gratification. That they might someday be caught and held to pay a price isn't worth worrying about.

But a homeowner with a gun? That's an immediate Oh Shit moment they can empathize with.
 
RF667799 said:
Studies have shown that it is certainty of some penalty that is more a deterrence than a harsh penalty with little chance of being inflicted. Most criminals serving time have already "got away" with several crimes that they didn't serve time for, or only minimal time. In our county right now, getting caught stealing is often little more than an inconvenience to a thief. Criminally disposed people often aren't long range thinkers either. They're often more about immediate gratification. That they might someday be caught and held to pay a price isn't worth worrying about.

But a homeowner with a gun? That's an immediate Oh Shit moment they can empathize with.
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I very much believe the bolded. Without a doubt!
 
Chomsky said:
I'll share a tidbit from a long time ago:

The local newspaper extensively interviewed convicted criminals serving time or passing through County (jail). Of the myriad of questions, one question was asking what the criminals feared the most? It wasn't jail, wasn't cops, wasn't having a record, wasn't the judge. What was it? It was a homeowner with a gun! Yep. That says it all!
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years ago, some University did a study where they got some hard core street criminals doing time at some tough prison, and they played films of people the University had recorded shopping at a mall. They asked each prisoner to note on a score sheet, if the person they were observing was someone they might mug if they were on the streets. There were variations, some people, almost every tough thug said yes, and some (like athletic looking younger men in a group of jocks) they said no. But what was interesting was the subject almost everyone of them said NO, was a guy in his late fifties, and not particularly big or tall--the man was probably in the 5-7 to 5-9 (its been a long time since I saw this report) and the guy was less than 150 or so pounds. The researchers interviewed some of the prisoners and asked why? one said the guy gave him "bad vibes" and another guy said "that dude's a stone cold killer and another guy thought the subject was "a narc or a Fed" They all sensed something about the man that gave them a feeling he would not be an easy target. Turns out the guy was a former highly trained military operative who was no stranger to killing up close and personal in Viet Nam.
 
Chillfolks said:
You got that reply in before he recognized his mistake and deleted the post.
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Posting/Deleting/Reposting is a regular thing he does. It's intended to be deliberately disruptive, but he probably doesn't realize how funny his frantic desperation appears.
 
RF667799 said:
Posting/Deleting/Reposting is a regular thing he does. It's intended to be deliberately disruptive, but he probably doesn't realize how funny his frantic desperation appears.
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He reposted it maybe thinking no one would notice or call out the stupidity. It’s kind of sad that he only has himself to talk with
 
Chillfolks said:
He reposted it maybe thinking no one would notice or call out the stupidity. It’s kind of sad that he only has himself to talk with
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Now now. I like talking to him.

We had a barber in our town, who once spoke disparaging of another of his customers to me. Nothing bad really. Just what would be a gentle ribbing, if it were in person.
He immediately followed with, "Don't tell him though! He's got three hairs and two ears, and is the best haircut in town!"

I think of Rich like that barber thought about that haircut.
 
aociswundumho said:
Because the killing of violent criminals is good for society, while the murder of innocent people by criminals is bad. If the increase in homicides is due to more violent criminals being shot, then SYG laws are a success.



Do you mean increase accidents while in a confrontation?
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Key word there is "if" .
Having an amateur with guns playing cops and robbers is not a sensible way of dealing with violent criminals.

As well as as an increase in innocent people being mistaken for criminals.
 
soylentgreen said:
Key word there is "if" .
Having an amateur with guns playing cops and robbers is not a sensible way of dealing with violent criminals.

As well as as an increase in innocent people being mistaken for criminals.
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self defense in one's home, neighborhood or place of business is not playing "cops and robbers"
 
It is a fair statement to say that stand your ground laws do not contribute to increases or decreases in violent crime and homicide rates. They are unrelated. The incidents of stand your ground cases are likely to remain fairly constant or increase slightly, while homicide and violent crime rate tend to increase or decreae based on societal bent. We are in an era of increased lwlessness and violence. violent crime rates are increasing. IDEALLY...more citizens will arm themselves and protect themselves, not so that more bad guys die but so that there will be fewer victims.
 
TurtleDude said:
self defense in one's home, neighborhood or place of business is not playing "cops and robbers"
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True, walking down the street with a gun is. Confronting someone you suspect might be a criminal with a gun is.
 
soylentgreen said:
True, walking down the street with a gun is. Confronting someone you suspect might be a criminal with a gun is.
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wrong-as usual, walking down the streets and only responding to an attack on your person is not. SOMETIMES confronting a person you think is a criminal may well be
 
TurtleDude said:
wrong-as usual, walking down the streets and only responding to an attack on your person is not. SOMETIMES confronting a person you think is a criminal may well be
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You do live in a world of fear or a real criminal ridden shithole.
 
soylentgreen said:
Key word there is "if" .
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Yes, it is key, and I'm glad you understand how important that data would be to someone thinking about the effects of SYG laws. Yet the leftist PhDs ignored it, like it doesn't even matter.

soylentgreen said:
Having an amateur with guns playing cops and robbers is not a sensible way of dealing with violent criminals.
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Private individual firearm ownership is by far the most cost effective way of dealing with violent criminals in the act.
 
Somerville said:
Obviously nonsense carried out by some of those liberal academic types who just hate guns
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Librulls are just hatin' on our gnarlee 'Murcan gun FrEeDuMbZ$™.

Trying to use Soshullizzmz to destroy Liberdees!!

Nyuck nyuck nyuck.:rolleyes:
 
TurtleDude said:
harsh punishments or getting "Rittenhoused" tends to prevent recidivism though.
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Yeahhhhh. "Rittenhoused".

like that 9 year old girl got in that pickup truck the other day eh Turtle? She got "Rittenhoused", looks like a pretty grave matter, also involving a possible "9mm colonoscopy" right?

She got "Rittenhoused". We should let the parents in on that fabulous term, they'll be comforted knowing their daughter was "Rittenhoused" and her death was not in vain. She died so that a Good Guy could battle the Bad Guys in the streets. Obviously a well qualified and safety-conscious Second Amendment patriot, out to keep everyone safe and secure.
 
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