Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted....[W:174]

j-mac · Jul 7, 2013

Now that the prosecution's case against Zimmerman is in, as a legal matter, I just don't see how a jury convicts him of second degree murder or even manslaughter in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin.So what happened? How can an armed man who shot and killed an unarmed teen after being told by the police that he didn't need to keep following him, likely be found not guilty of those crimes?
I certainly sympathize with the anger and frustration of the Martin family and doubt that a jury will accept the entirety of George Zimmerman's account as credible. But based on the legal standard and evidence presented by prosecutors it is difficult to see how jurors find proof beyond a reasonable doubt that it wasn't self defense.

Prosecutors are at a distinct legal disadvantage.

Trayvon Martin's Mother Offers Emotional Testimony in Murder TrialWatch Video

George Zimmerman Trial Day 9: Prosecution Rests Its Case Watch Video

Trayvon Martin's Mother, Brother Testify Watch Video

They have the burden to prove that Zimmerman did not "reasonably believe" that the gunshot was "necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm" to himself. That is no easy feat based on the evidence presented in their case. Almost every prosecution witness was called to discredit the only eyewitness who unquestionably saw everything that occurred that night, George Zimmerman.
The essence of Zimmerman's account is basically as follows:
He spotted Martin, became suspicious, called police, was told he didn't need to follow him, was only out of his car to give the authorities an address, was jumped and then pummeled by Martin and as he was being punched and having his head knocked into the ground, Martin went for Zimmerman's firearm and Zimmerman shot him once in the chest.
The prosecution, on the other hand, called 38 witnesses to try to show: Zimmerman was a wannabe cop who regularly reported black strangers in his neighborhood; initiated and was at least at one point, on top during the encounter; that Zimmerman's injuries were minor and that many aspects of his accounts to the police and media were inconsistent and/or lies.
For a moment, lets put aside the fact that many of the prosecution witnesses seemed to help Zimmerman in one way or another.
As a legal matter, even if jurors find parts of Zimmerman's story fishy, that is not enough to convict. Even if they believe that Zimmerman initiated the altercation, and that his injuries were relatively minor, that too would be insufficient evidence to convict.

George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted of Murder or Manslaughter -- Here's Why - ABC News

So here we have Dan Abrams, a "journalist" whom from the start was like many other MSM reporters, on TM's side and partly responsible for stirring up the hornets nest surrounding this case...Now even he, is saying that Z will walk....Question is, when will the rest of the TM supporters start to wake up and at least familiarize themselves with the legal standards they have to jump here?

MaggieD · Jul 7, 2013

j-mac said:
So here we have Dan Abrams, a "journalist" whom from the start was like many other MSM reporters, on TM's side and partly responsible for stirring up the hornets nest surrounding this case...Now even he, is saying that Z will walk....Question is, when will the rest of the TM supporters start to wake up and at least familiarize themselves with the legal standards they have to jump here?

I don't necessarily think he's right. The jury is going to want to convict him of something. Everything is going to hang on jury instructions.

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jul 7, 2013

With the fact that Zimmerman is the only remaining person at the scene during the shooting, people will still believe what they want to when the verdict is announced.

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't necessarily think he's right. The jury is going to want to convict him of something. Everything is going to hang on jury instructions.

So you think the jury isn't impartial?

MaggieD · Jul 7, 2013

Μολὼν λαβέ;1062023549 said:
So you think the jury isn't impartial?

I don't know. But I know this was such a tragedy that the jury is likely to want to convict of something. This was, in my opinion, a perfect **** storm. Was Martin evil? No. Is an innocent young kid dead? Absolutely. Human nature doesn't want to believe this kind of thing can happen, in my opinion. Depending upon jury instructions, I think they'll find him guilty of a lesser charge.

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't know. But I know this was such a tragedy that the jury is likely to want to convict of something. This was, in my opinion, a perfect **** storm. Was Martin evil? No. Is an innocent young kid dead? Absolutely. Human nature doesn't want to believe this kind of thing can happen, in my opinion. Depending upon jury instructions, I think they'll find him guilty of a lesser charge.

What testimony have you heard, or evidence you have seen, that makes you think Z will be convicted of something because he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

MaggieD · Jul 7, 2013

Μολὼν λαβέ;1062023582 said:
What testimony have you heard that makes you think Z will be convicted of something because he is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt?

They may want to see Trayvon Martin as losing a Stand Your Ground confrontation. If they believe that, when George Zimmerman reached for his cell phone, Trayvon Martin thought he was reaching for a gun? They could find that Trayvon Martin was justified in attacking him. They can't disprove Zimmerman's account that Martin attacked first, but my scenerio accounts for that.

American · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't necessarily think he's right. The jury is going to want to convict him of something. Everything is going to hang on jury instructions.

But that's not the law, convicting him of something is not their job. You make it sound like they need to hunt around for something to get him on. That's a lynching.

MaggieD · Jul 7, 2013

American said:
But that's not the law, convicting him of something is not their job. You make it sound like they need to hunt around for something to get him on. That's a lynching.

And you make it sound like people have never been lynched.

SheWolf · Jul 7, 2013

The jury hasn't been given instructions. Maybe they will be given the option of going with manslaughter.

But I am curious what the defense plans on doing. Call some witnesses? bring in some experts? Or are they just going to rest their case and let the jury decide. lol

American · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't know. But I know this was such a tragedy that the jury is likely to want to convict of something. This was, in my opinion, a perfect **** storm. Was Martin evil? No. Is an innocent young kid dead? Absolutely. Human nature doesn't want to believe this kind of thing can happen, in my opinion. Depending upon jury instructions, I think they'll find him guilty of a lesser charge.

Bull****, Martin was a little gangsta, who got all cocky and tried to beat the **** of our Z. And for his trouble his got shot. Too bad, and this isn't the only shooting that's happened since this shooting. You're acting all emotional, this kid was a punk. He may have not been looking for trouble prior to being aware of Zimmerman, but it's plainly obvious that once he knew Z was watching him, he decided to teach Z a lesson. We know the outcome.

American · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
And you make it sound like people have never been lynched.

That's BS, I never said any such thing. But the facts we know clearly show that TM was a punk, and not the innocent little baby boy they tried to portray at the start.

ttwtt78640 · Jul 7, 2013

You ignore one very important part of the Florida law on the use of deadly force in self defense (SYG).

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

It is not necessary to show that a chance of death or great bodily harm existed, only that a forcible felony (aggravated assault/battery) was being committed to justify the use of deadly force in Florida.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Click to expand...

American · Jul 7, 2013

ttwtt78640 said:
You ignore one very important part of the Florida law on the use of deadly force in self defense (SYG).

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

It is not necessary to show that a chance of death or great bodily harm existed, only that a forcible felony (aggravated assault/battery) was being committed to justify the use of deadly force in Florida.

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

Click to expand...

The defense skipped the Stand Your Ground defense and went to plain self defense.

Click to expand...

Caine · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't necessarily think he's right. The jury is going to want to convict him of something. Everything is going to hang on jury instructions.

Will they have evidence of.... something.

You shouldn't convict someone because you think they should get SOMETHING. You convict someone based on evidence of a specific charge.

SgtRock · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't know. But I know this was such a tragedy that the jury is likely to want to convict of something. This was, in my opinion, a perfect **** storm. Was Martin evil? No. Is an innocent young kid dead? Absolutely. Human nature doesn't want to believe this kind of thing can happen, in my opinion. Depending upon jury instructions, I think they'll find him guilty of a lesser charge.

Do you really believe TM was an innocent young kid? If Z is telling the truth about M saying "you're going to die tonight" and then he comenced to whooping Z's ass. He is not an innocent kid.

ttwtt78640 · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I don't necessarily think he's right. The jury is going to want to convict him of something. Everything is going to hang on jury instructions.

Why will the jury want to convict?

What evidence leads you to believe that GZ committed murder, rather than simply shot in self defense?

You honestly have reasonable doubt that GZ was defending himself after having had his nose broken, being knocked to the ground, pinned to the ground and beaten?

What crime was GZ guilty of committing had he not elected to shoot TM?

Μολὼν λαβέ · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
They may want to see Trayvon Martin as losing a Stand Your Ground confrontation. If they believe that, when George Zimmerman reached for his cell phone, Trayvon Martin thought he was reaching for a gun? They could find that Trayvon Martin was justified in attacking him. They can't disprove Zimmerman's account that Martin attacked first, but my scenerio accounts for that.

It still appears you think the jury is impartial. If they want anything to happen then they're prejudiced and making a decision before being aware of all the facts of the case or making a decision in lieu of the facts. I really hope this isn't the case and the jury bases their decisions on the facts of the case.

Even if T was justified in attacking, G was justified in using deadly force as long as he feared for his life under the "Stand your ground law", according to the JAG witness who taught Z's law class. I've read it as well and that's my conclusion, even though I'm no legal scholar.

This is why Z wasn't arrested until it became political. The state has no concern with spending taxpayer $ and wanted to avoid claims of racism, so they went ahead with the prosecution.

Florida Statutes CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE

776.012 Use of force in defense of person.—A person is justified in using force, except deadly force, against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other’s imminent use of unlawful force. However, a person is justified in the use of deadly force and does not have a duty to retreat if:

(1) He or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the imminent commission of a forcible felony;

Florida Stand Your Ground

MaggieD · Jul 7, 2013

American said:
Bull****, Martin was a little gangsta, who got all cocky and tried to beat the **** of our Z. And for his trouble his got shot. Too bad, and this isn't the only shooting that's happened since this shooting. You're acting all emotional, this kid was a punk. He may have not been looking for trouble prior to being aware of Zimmerman, but it's plainly obvious that once he knew Z was watching him, he decided to teach Z a lesson. We know the outcome.

What evidence has been introduced thus far tha portrays Trayvon Martin as a "little gangsta?"

American said:
That's BS, I never said any such thing. But the facts we know clearly show that TM was a punk, and not the innocent little baby boy they tried to portray at the start.

Never said you said it, American, relax.

Caine said:
Will they have evidence of.... something.

You shouldn't convict someone because you think they should get SOMETHING. You convict someone based on evidence of a specific charge.

I agree, Caine. As I've said a number of times, I hope they find him not guilty. I just won't be surprised if they don't.

SgtRock said:
Do you really believe TM was an innocent young kid? If Z is telling the truth about M saying "you're going to die tonight" and then he comenced to whooping Z's ass. He is not an innocent kid.

I don't think that Trayvon Martin was a thug. I think he was pretty much a typical teenager from a tough neighborhood. What evidence has been introduced that would show the jury he's NOT an innocent kid?

ttwtt78640 · Jul 7, 2013

American said:
ttwtt78640 said:

You ignore one very important part of the Florida law on the use of deadly force in self defense (SYG).

A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.

The defense skipped the Stand Your Ground defense and went to plain self defense.

Click to expand...

Can you please cite that Florida statute?

Click to expand...

MaggieD · Jul 7, 2013

ttwtt78640 said:
Why will the jury want to convict?

What evidence leads you to believe that GZ committed murder, rather than simply shot in self defense?

You honestly have reasonable doubt that GZ was defending himself after having had his nose broken, being knocked to the ground, pinned to the ground and beaten?

What crime was GZ guilty of committing had he not elected to shoot TM?

I think they may want to find him guilty of something because a young kid is dead. I'm just telling you what I think. You obviously disagree. We'll see. I hope I'm wrong. I say it all boils down to jury instructions. You apparently think the state has failed on every level to prove this was anything other than self-defense. I hope the jury sees it your way.

I've argued this case every which way but loose since Martin was arrested. I know the facts of the case. There is no one on Zimmerman's team who thinks this is the slam dunk people on this board believe it is. Nobody. Juries do funny things.

Ray410 · Jul 7, 2013

Under Florida law, any conviction from the jury must be unanimous. So if they leave earth to travel to outer space, they all have to go together.

ttwtt78640 · Jul 7, 2013

MaggieD said:
I think they may want to find him guilty of something because a young kid is dead. I'm just telling you what I think. You obviously disagree. We'll see. I hope I'm wrong. I say it all boils down to jury instructions. You apparently think the state has failed on every level to prove this was anything other than self-defense. I hope the jury sees it your way.

I've argued this case every which way but loose since Martin was arrested. I know the facts of the case. There is no one on Zimmerman's team who thinks this is the slam dunk people on this board believe it is. Nobody. Juries do funny things.

I would agree with you that juries can do strange things, especially in Floriduh. How do you suppose that Casey Anthony got convicted of absolutley nothing concerning the death of her daughter?

j-mac · Jul 7, 2013

I agree with Maggie here, but for different reasons, I think the whole damned thing has been pushed on an agenda to get Z from the start. I don't think the jury will want the hassle of harassment of acquittal at this point, but I've been wrong before, and likely will again some time...

Dooble · Jul 7, 2013

It's no wonder Zimmerman's looking to walk. It appears the prosecution has zero to stand on:

Trayvon Martin was apparently a 17 year old undisciplined punk thug, drug dealing, thief and wannabe gangsta… | The Last Refuge

Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted....[W:174]

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Analysis: George Zimmerman Probably Won't Be Convicted....[W:174]

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