An Obvious Observation on Education

[Yakshi]

Throughout russia's invasion into Ukraine, we've heard many people offer insights, often in productive ways. To say the least, this is not always true from the pro-russian side. Obviously, this effect is due to trolling--we all know who I'm talking about--and random American idiots suffering from early onset Alzheimers--again, we know who these people are.

After two years of this, I believe we can come to a few rough assumptions.

First, russians--and anyone supporting russia--frequently resort to whataboutism, by which I mean an attempt to change the subject by directing criticism to an unrelated source or topic. To be polite, let's call them the Champions of Logic. Their goal typically is to expand the topic so that the original subject disappears, because they lack the ability to address the topic.

In short, they are cowards who can't man up.

Second, both siderism. If any American were forced to watch russian content on any russian channel for 24 hours, he would say afterwards, "What in the holy hell was that long series of horseshit?" Because over that day, he would likely have heard that Biden/Obama was Satan, that America would soon collapse, and that Ukraine was crawling with Nazis. russian propaganda is ubiquitous.

Therefore, because they experience it daily, russians think that western propaganda is ubiqitious.

Third, absolute ****ing stupidity, a net effect of failures in russian education. If any westerner has spoken directly with a russian, he will often find that they are (1) unusually polite and (2) in many cases, woefully moronic and eager to repeat the aforementioned russian propaganda. One feels as if one is talking to someone who recently was dealt a grievous head wound and would now like to talk about russian politics.

This phenomenon occurs over, and over, and over, and over.

It is my personal opinion that defective russian education methods are at fault, and I believe that this happens because the russian political system has substantially altered its educational system.

Now I sincerely beg for a russian to respond to this thread so that I can stomp him senseless with more data.

 

[lwf]

That's Russian propaganda 101. They've been trotting out the same eight logical fallacies in their propaganda since the Cold War. You can identify the Kremlin trolls when they shamelessly double down even after you have explained the error in reasoning to them, or they pivot to one of the others. They will also swarm threads in order to reinforce each other's fallacious arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes#

1. Ad Hominem Fallacy​

2. Straw Man​

A prime example of this fallacy used in the pro-Kremlin disinformation is the “Gayropa” narrative. “Gayropa” is a blend of words Gay and Europe and is often used to portray European societies as hedonistic and morally corrupt juxtapositioning them with the traditional “family values” that Russia prides itself in promoting. This argument clearly mischaracterizes liberal democracies and their values to make them less attractive to the Russians and “family value-minded” Europeans.

3. Appeal to emotion​

One of the most notable examples was the “Lisa case” when Russian media and high-ranking political figures accused the German authorities of failing to investigate the rape of an underage Russian-German girl called Lisa, who was allegedly raped by “migrants”. It was found that the underage girl fabricated the story.

4. Appeal to hypocrisy​

Shortly after Special Counsel Mueller and his team released an indictment against thirteen Russian nationals and three organizations on February 16, Kremlin-funded Sputnik News published at least four articles accusing the United States of meddling in other nations’ elections, citing examples of U.S. involvement in foreign elections during the Cold War.

5. Slippery slope​

A good example was Latvia’s decision to gradually transition Russian language schools more required instruction in the national language — Latvian. This sparked a disinformation campaign against the Latvian government, led by pro-Kremlin media outlets in Latvia.
Vesti.lv, a pro-Kremlin media outlet, published several articles in response to the aforementioned effort with inflammatory headlines such as: “Latvian Russians are facing a regime of totalitarian xenophobia”, “Life for Russians in Latvia is ‘catastrophic’”, and “For speaking Russian — fines!”

6. Either/Or fallacy​

A recent example of how this fallacy was used by the Kremlin is Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs statement on the poisoning of former spy Sergei Skripal in the United Kingdom on March 21. It read:

“Logic suggests that there are only two possible things. Either the British authorities are not able to provide protection for such a, let’s say, terrorist attack on their soil, or they, whether directly or indirectly, I am not accusing anyone, have orchestrated an attack on a Russian citizen”

The statement presented two options, neither one of which included the likeliest possibility established, which is that the Russian government was behind the attack.

7. Hasty generalization​

Kremlin-funded media frequently publishes articles accusing the U.S. of supporting ISIS. The articles provide no evidence, except for “anonymous sources” who often “speak directly” with Russia’s Ministry of Defense.

8. Red Herring​

when a journalist questioned Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014, President Putin responded by saying that U.S. took Texas from Mexico, shifting the topic of the discussion from Russia’s illegal actions to the American history.

 

[Mycroft]

Throughout russia's invasion into Ukraine, we've heard many people offer insights, often in productive ways. To say the least, this is not always true from the pro-russian side. Obviously, this effect is due to trolling--we all know who I'm talking about--and random American idiots suffering from early onset Alzheimers--again, we know who these people are.

First, I don't know who "these people" are. Can you name some of them?

After two years of this, I believe we can come to a few rough assumptions.

First, russians--and anyone supporting russia--frequently resort to whataboutism, by which I mean an attempt to change the subject by directing criticism to an unrelated source or topic. To be polite, let's call them the Champions of Logic. Their goal typically is to expand the topic so that the original subject disappears, because they lack the ability to address the topic.

In short, they are cowards who can't man up.

Second, both siderism. If any American were forced to watch russian content on any russian channel for 24 hours, he would say afterwards, "What in the holy hell was that long series of horseshit?" Because over that day, he would likely have heard that Biden/Obama was Satan, that America would soon collapse, and that Ukraine was crawling with Nazis. russian propaganda is ubiquitous.

Therefore, because they experience it daily, russians think that western propaganda is ubiqitious.

Third, absolute ****ing stupidity, a net effect of failures in russian education. If any westerner has spoken directly with a russian, he will often find that they are (1) unusually polite and (2) in many cases, woefully moronic and eager to repeat the aforementioned russian propaganda. One feels as if one is talking to someone who recently was dealt a grievous head wound and would now like to talk about russian politics.

This phenomenon occurs over, and over, and over, and over.

It is my personal opinion that defective russian education methods are at fault, and I believe that this happens because the russian political system has substantially altered its educational system.

Now I sincerely beg for a russian to respond to this thread so that I can stomp him senseless with more data.

Second, are you trying to describe Americans with this nonsense? Or Russians?

If you are trying to describe Americans, why do you want Russians to respond to this thread and what does the Russian education methods have to do with Americans?

If you are trying to describe Russians, why do you keep mentioning Americans?

 

[Yakshi]

First, I don't know who "these people" are. Can you name some of them?


Second, are you trying to describe Americans with this nonsense? Or Russians?

If you are trying to describe Americans, why do you want Russians to respond to this thread and what does the Russian education methods have to do with Americans?

If you are trying to describe Russians, why do you keep mentioning Americans?

This is a thread for all people except you. The exit is in whichever direction you pout best.

See how I did that? See how hard it was? And you've been doing what you do for decades. Was all that time wasted?

Voluntarily or not, you'll be answering that last question to yourself the next time you are on the toilet.

Your confusion with a post made in third-grade English is a you problem.

Wake up the child nearest to you, ask her to read my post, and then ask her to explain it to you by drawing speech balloons.

This is my way of telling you that you are out of your league, a point that anyone else would have understood without the explanation.

 

[Mycroft]

This is a thread for all people except you. The exit is in whichever direction you pout best.

See how I did that? See how hard it was? And you've been doing what you do for decades. Was all that time wasted?

Voluntarily or not, you'll be answering that last question to yourself the next time you are on the toilet.

Your confusion with a post made in third-grade English is a you problem.

Wake up the child nearest to you, ask her to read my post, and then ask her to explain it to you by drawing speech balloons.

This is my way of telling you that you are out of your league, a point that anyone else would have understood.

LOL!!

Uncomfortable questions, eh? Got you flummoxed, right?

Well, that's what happens when you use third-grade intelligence to post a screed to adults.

The only person who is out of their league here is the person who can't/won't answer perfectly reasonable questions.

You (and your dumbass thread) are dismissed.

 

[Yakshi]

LOL!!

Uncomfortable questions, eh? Got you flummoxed, right?

Well, that's what happens when you use third-grade intelligence to post a screed to adults.

The only person who is out of their league here is the person who can't/won't answer perfectly reasonable questions.

You (and your dumbass thread) are dismissed.

That's one weird way to pout about what just happened to you.

This topic is not one that you can mentally handle.

That will be your last post here.

. . . And that's how I will force you to post again here.

See how I just dominated you into dismissing yourself?

After all of these years, you're just not very good at this.

Your brand of trolling requires intelligence. That's your problem.

 

[Yakshi]

Pointing out how the pro-russian side loves to troll immediately invites trolling.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Your brand of trolling requires intelligence. That's your problem.

You should understand. Mycroft is, without doubt, the most prolific Trump-apologist on this message board.

If Trump told him the Sun is purple Mycroft would defend Trump's assertion. A wannabe lawyer without the J.D.

Trump favors Putin/Russia, ergo Mycroft favors Putin/Russia. No thinking on his part is required.

 

[Yakshi]

You should understand. Mycroft is, without doubt, the most prolific Trump-apologist on this message board.

If Trump told him the Sun is purple Mycroft would defend Trump's assertion. A wannabe lawyer without the J.D.

Trump favors Putin/Russia, ergo Mycroft favors Putin/Russia. No thinking on his part is required.

It's always fun when Mycroft responds, because Mycroft's points are easy to ridicule. Mycroft can't take a punch.

 

[Irredentist]

Throughout russia's invasion into Ukraine, we've heard many people offer insights, often in productive ways. To say the least, this is not always true from the pro-russian side. Obviously, this effect is due to trolling--we all know who I'm talking about--and random American idiots suffering from early onset Alzheimers--again, we know who these people are.

After two years of this, I believe we can come to a few rough assumptions.

First, russians--and anyone supporting russia--frequently resort to whataboutism, by which I mean an attempt to change the subject by directing criticism to an unrelated source or topic. To be polite, let's call them the Champions of Logic. Their goal typically is to expand the topic so that the original subject disappears, because they lack the ability to address the topic.

In short, they are cowards who can't man up.

Second, both siderism. If any American were forced to watch russian content on any russian channel for 24 hours, he would say afterwards, "What in the holy hell was that long series of horseshit?" Because over that day, he would likely have heard that Biden/Obama was Satan, that America would soon collapse, and that Ukraine was crawling with Nazis. russian propaganda is ubiquitous.

Therefore, because they experience it daily, russians think that western propaganda is ubiqitious.

Third, absolute ****ing stupidity, a net effect of failures in russian education. If any westerner has spoken directly with a russian, he will often find that they are (1) unusually polite and (2) in many cases, woefully moronic and eager to repeat the aforementioned russian propaganda. One feels as if one is talking to someone who recently was dealt a grievous head wound and would now like to talk about russian politics.

This phenomenon occurs over, and over, and over, and over.

It is my personal opinion that defective russian education methods are at fault, and I believe that this happens because the russian political system has substantially altered its educational system.

Now I sincerely beg for a russian to respond to this thread so that I can stomp him senseless with more data.

It would be a mistake to assume that everyone who opposes American intervention in the Ukraine war does so because they are pro-russian. These are essentially the same sort of arguments used to justify every failed American military intervention since Vietnam. Just because you believe in it passionately doesn't make it the right thing to do.

 

[Tigerace117]

That's Russian propaganda 101. They've been trotting out the same eight logical fallacies in their propaganda since the Cold War. You can identify the Kremlin trolls when they shamelessly double down even after you have explained the error in reasoning to them, or they pivot to one of the others. They will also swarm threads in order to reinforce each other's fallacious arguments.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes#

1. Ad Hominem Fallacy​

View attachment 67501216

2. Straw Man​

A prime example of this fallacy used in the pro-Kremlin disinformation is the “Gayropa” narrative. “Gayropa” is a blend of words Gay and Europe and is often used to portray European societies as hedonistic and morally corrupt juxtapositioning them with the traditional “family values” that Russia prides itself in promoting. This argument clearly mischaracterizes liberal democracies and their values to make them less attractive to the Russians and “family value-minded” Europeans.

3. Appeal to emotion​

One of the most notable examples was the “Lisa case” when Russian media and high-ranking political figures accused the German authorities of failing to investigate the rape of an underage Russian-German girl called Lisa, who was allegedly raped by “migrants”. It was found that the underage girl fabricated the story.

4. Appeal to hypocrisy​

Shortly after Special Counsel Mueller and his team released an indictment against thirteen Russian nationals and three organizations on February 16, Kremlin-funded Sputnik News published at least four articles accusing the United States of meddling in other nations’ elections, citing examples of U.S. involvement in foreign elections during the Cold War.

5. Slippery slope​

A good example was Latvia’s decision to gradually transition Russian language schools more required instruction in the national language — Latvian. This sparked a disinformation campaign against the Latvian government, led by pro-Kremlin media outlets in Latvia.
Vesti.lv, a pro-Kremlin media outlet, published several articles in response to the aforementioned effort with inflammatory headlines such as: “Latvian Russians are facing a regime of totalitarian xenophobia”, “Life for Russians in Latvia is ‘catastrophic’”, and “For speaking Russian — fines!”

6. Either/Or fallacy​

A recent example of how this fallacy was used by the Kremlin is Russia’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs statement on the poisoning of former spy Sergei Skripal in the United Kingdom on March 21. It read:

The statement presented two options, neither one of which included the likeliest possibility established, which is that the Russian government was behind the attack.

7. Hasty generalization​

Kremlin-funded media frequently publishes articles accusing the U.S. of supporting ISIS. The articles provide no evidence, except for “anonymous sources” who often “speak directly” with Russia’s Ministry of Defense.

8. Red Herring​

when a journalist questioned Russia’s annexation of Crimea in 2014, President Putin responded by saying that U.S. took Texas from Mexico, shifting the topic of the discussion from Russia’s illegal actions to the American history.

In reality, American apologists are fundamentally incapable of handling facing the real world. Which is why, when confronted with the reality of the US and its allies doing the exact same thing they supposedly condemn when Russia or another country does it, they panic and start to flail.

They also are incapable of comprehending historical facts, largely because the US whitewashes it’s own history as much as humanly possible. Even recent history is whitewashed in the name of trying to make the US look better, as in the case of the torture campaign the US carried out for years in the aftermath of 9/11.

 

[Fledermaus]

BUTWHATABOUTMURICA....

BUTWHATABOUTMURICA.....

BUTWHATABOUTMURICA.....

 

[lwf]

In reality, American apologists are fundamentally incapable of handling facing the real world. Which is why, when confronted with the reality of the US and its allies doing the exact same thing they supposedly condemn when Russia or another country does it, they panic and start to flail.

They also are incapable of comprehending historical facts, largely because the US whitewashes it’s own history as much as humanly possible. Even recent history is whitewashed in the name of trying to make the US look better, as in the case of the torture campaign the US carried out for years in the aftermath of 9/11.

Perfect example of an appeal to hypocrisy and a red herring. Historic US behavior is logically irrelevant to current Russian behavior.

 

[Tigerace117]

Perfect example of an appeal to hypocrisy and a red herring. Historic US behavior is logically irrelevant to current Russian behavior.

Uh...no, it’s very relevant, especially because the US continues to do it right up until the present...and no amount of denial can change that.

 

[Fledermaus]

Uh...no, it’s very relevant, especially because the US continues to do it right up until the present...and no amount of denial can change that.

BUTWHATABOUTMURICA

 

[lwf]

Uh...no, it’s very relevant, especially because the US continues to do it right up until the present...and no amount of denial can change that.

Important to you does not mean logically relevant. US historic behavior is objectively logically irrelevant to current Russian behavior.

 

[Juin]

Important to you does not mean logically relevant. US historic behavior is objectively logically irrelevant to current Russian behavior.

Is the US existing in a vacuum? Of course, US behaviour, historical and current, is relevant. Just as British, French, Russian, Spanish. What you are trying to do is demonise Russia while shielding the west from same censure

 

[lwf]

Is the US existing in a vacuum? Of course, US behaviour, historical and current, is relevant. Just as British, French, Russian, Spanish. What you are trying to do is demonise Russia while shielding the west from same censure

Nope. That is a logical fallacy called "appeal to hypocrisy." It is objectively NOT logically relevant at all. Americans learn this lesson in preschool. That Johnny got away with being naughty last week without being caught doesn't mean that you get to be naughty today without repercussions.

 

[Tigerace117]

Important to you does not mean logically relevant. US historic behavior is objectively logically irrelevant to current Russian behavior.

Logically the US doing the exact same thing as Russia, right up until the present, is entirely relevant...and no amount of denial can change that.

American apologists lacking the courage to handle facing the facts about the US’ behavior does not change that.

 

[lwf]

Logically the US doing the exact same thing as Russia, right up until the present, is entirely relevant...and no amount of denial can change that.

American apologists lacking the courage to handle facing the facts about the US’ behavior does not change that.

How is what the US does logically relevant to what Russia does?

 

[Tigerace117]

How is what the US does logically relevant to what Russia does?

The US engaging in large scale torture of civilians, waging wars of aggression across the globe, constantly undermining democracy on a global scale, and desperately trying to whitewash all of that does not magically go away just because you cry “but Russia”.

 

[lwf]

The US engaging in large scale torture of civilians, waging wars of aggression across the globe, constantly undermining democracy on a global scale, and desperately trying to whitewash all of that does not magically go away just because you cry “but Russia”.

Except you are the one crying "But America!" in this case. I wasn't talking about America. I was talking about Russia.

 

[Tigerace117]

Except you are the one crying "But America!" in this case. I wasn't talking about America. I was talking about Russia.

Desperately attempts to deny what the US does doesn’t actually change the facts.

Nothing in the world exists in a vacuum. Trying to pretend the actions of one nation don’t relate to those around them is comical.

 

[Juin]

Nope. That is a logical fallacy called "appeal to hypocrisy." It is objectively NOT logically relevant at all. Americans learn this lesson in preschool. That Johnny got away with being naughty last week without being caught doesn't mean that you get to be naughty today without repercussions.

LOL Your Johnny is permanently naughty. That is the problem. It raises valid challenges when your naughty Johnny purpots to seat as Judge and Jury to others in disputes he is party to

 

[lwf]

LOL Your Johnny is permanently naughty. That is the problem. It raises valid challenges when your naughty Johnny purpots to seat as Judge and Jury to others in disputes he is party to

Except it isn't The United States that is sitting as judge and jury of Russia. I don't speak for the United States of America.