An Interesting Alternate Take on Mitch McConnell

[Vern]

I don't deny that racism didn't play into it for some people... but I think political differences played a much bigger role.

How many people do you figure who voted against Obama because he was black would have voted for Clinton or Biden if they had been the nominees in 2008? I don't think it's all that many... do you?

well of course the political differences played into it. Democrats put America first and voted for stimulus under Bush, Obama, trump and Biden. Republicans put themselves first only voted for stimulus under bush and trump. So now you know when republicans were wringing their hands about President Obama's now laughably small stimulus, they werent concerned about deficits. They intentionally were trying to let more people suffer and suffer longer for their political gain. . And then they succeeded in letting more people suffer and suffer longer when they blocked President Obama's jobs bill. Think about it, a time cost of 450 billion to help UE when it was over 9 % was stopped because of their faux concern for deficits. But with UE at a 20 year low, they passed a 2 trillion dollar tax cut to corporations to help with UE. And racism is one of the ways they kept an ignorant base in the dark about their anti-American agenda.

 

[Cordelier]

well of course the political differences played into it. Democrats put America first and voted for stimulus under Bush, Obama, trump and Biden. Republicans put themselves first only voted for stimulus under bush and trump. So now you know when republicans were wringing their hands about President Obama's now laughably small stimulus, they werent concerned about deficits. They intentionally were trying to let more people suffer and suffer longer for their political gain. . And then they succeeded in letting more people suffer and suffer longer when they blocked President Obama's jobs bill. Think about it, a time cost of 450 billion to help UE when it was over 9 % was stopped because of their faux concern for deficits. But with UE at a 20 year low, they passed a 2 trillion dollar tax cut to corporations to help with UE. And racism is one of the ways they kept an ignorant base in the dark about their anti-American agenda.

You can argue with the methods all you want, but you can't argue with the results - the GOP kicked our asses in the 2010 mid-terms.

 

[Vern]

You can argue with the methods all you want, but you can't argue with the results - the GOP kicked our asses in the 2010 mid-terms.

I question their methods because they pander and lie to an ignorant base. Their faux concern for deficits while letting more people and suffer longer perfectly illustrates my point.

 

[Cordelier]

I question their methods because they pander and lie to an ignorant base. Their faux concern for deficits while letting more people and suffer longer perfectly illustrates my point.

According to you... the other side has their own spin on it. So we disagree... and who makes the final call? The voters. And in 2010, we got the short end of the stick as far as they were concerned. At the end of the day, that's the only number that matters. So where did we go wrong? Was it marketing? Or was the problem more with substance? Was it a mistake to focus on Affordable Care right out of the box, or should we have focused on Tax Reform and shifting more of the burden from the middle class to the wealthy?

 

[bomberfox]

I didn't say word one about his wife! All I'm saying is that I'm not going to accuse the man of being racist without good reason to support it.

I actually think it's more racist to suggest that his opposition to President Obama was in any way based on race. Do you really think a black president has to be "mollycoddled" in order to succeed? Or that any disagreement with him is based solely on race? I think the whole argument you're making is BS. President Obama succeeded where he succeeded or failed where he failed based on his own talents and abilities. It had nothing whatsoever to do with the color of his skin.

If he wanted to overcome McConnell's intransigence, then he needed to beat him at his own game. He needed to - as President Truman once said - "Give him hell and make him like it!". When you can do that, that's when you earn the respect of someone like McConnell. It's got nothing whatsoever to do with skin color.

Wow thats kind of an equally uncharitable take. Why give respect to someone who will never give it no matter what you do. Seems to me you think McConnel is acting in any kind of good faith, he isnt.

i already agreed with you that Obama needed to play hardball but the timing of his party of no is rather convenient. Of course i think we just need to completely strip the power of his position but thats a different conversation.
I dont assume good faith when people flip on everything they complained about when it was another party or person in charge.

 

[Vern]

According to you... the other side has their own spin on it. So we disagree... and who makes the final call? The voters. And in 2010, we got the short end of the stick as far as they were concerned. At the end of the day, that's the only number that matters. So where did we go wrong? Was it marketing? Or was the problem more with substance? Was it a mistake to focus on Affordable Care right out of the box, or should we have focused on Tax Reform and shifting more of the burden from the middle class to the wealthy?

Cord please explain what you consider spin in my post because I dont accept your "nuh uh, spin" reply. Its a little short on specifics. This is a debate forum. thats why I had was clear and specific in my post. Try to emulate that. thanks in advance. (oh and I havent even touched on the non stop Obamacare lies and their effect on the 2010 midterms. Just try to focus on the deficit related lies and pandering from republicans)

 

[calamity]

I was quite honestly surprised to learn that McConnell is an ardent supporter of democracy in Myanmar and was very strongly against the apartheid government in South Africa. Just goes to show ya that people aren’t as one dimensional as we make them out to be.

Mitch McConnell tends his legacy 8,000 miles away

After a recent military coup in Myanmar, President Joe Biden consulted with the GOP leader on the U.S. response.

www.politico.com

Broken Clock Theory would explain it.

 

[Cordelier]

Wow thats kind of an equally uncharitable take. Why give respect to someone who will never give it no matter what you do. Seems to me you think McConnel is acting in any kind of good faith, he isnt.

i already agreed with you that Obama needed to play hardball but the timing of his party of no is rather convenient. Of course i think we just need to completely strip the power of his position but thats a different conversation.

Uncharitable or not, I'm sick of this whole "Obama was treated poorly because of racism line"... it's just not true. It's worse than not true... it's an excuse that perpetuates the myth that people of color can't compete on a level playing field.

What you've got to realize about McConnell is that he's operating on a code... you don't get good faith out of the man by just showing up. You've got to earn it... and until you earn it, he's just going to walk all over you. Doesn't matter what your skin color happens to be.

 

[Cordelier]

Cord please explain what you consider spin in my post because I dont accept your "nuh uh, spin" reply. Its a little short on specifics. This is a debate forum. thats why I had was clear and specific in my post. Try to emulate that. thanks in advance. (oh and I havent even touched on the non stop Obamacare lies and their effect on the 2010 midterms. Just try to focus on the deficit related lies and pandering from republicans)

Any time someone starts talking economics, there is always going to be spin involved. There are always trade-offs, always people coming out ahead and others getting the short end of the stick. That's why it's called "the dismal science"... and it's also why President Truman's biggest lament was that he never could find a one-armed economist who couldn't tell him, "On the other hand..."

I'll tell you straight, Vern... because I've been studying the subject for the better part of my life now... whether you come at economics from the left or you come at it from the right, there's never going to be a "perfect solution" that solves all problems with no drawbacks. You might as well go off in search of the Holy Grail. LBJ used to say that giving a speech about economics is akin to getting up on stage and urinating yourself.... it may give you a warm feeling down the leg of your pants, but it tends to make your audience distinctly uncomfortable.

 

[Vern]

Any time someone starts talking economics, there is always going to be spin involved. There are always trade-offs, always people coming out ahead and others getting the short end of the stick. That's why it's called "the dismal science"... and it's also why President Truman's biggest lament was that he never could find a one-armed economist who couldn't tell him, "On the other hand..."

I'll tell you straight, Vern... because I've been studying the subject for the better part of my life now... whether you come at economics from the left or you come at it from the right, there's never going to be a "perfect solution" that solves all problems with no drawbacks. You might as well go off in search of the Holy Grail. LBJ used to say that giving a speech about economics is akin to getting up on stage and urinating yourself.... it may give you a warm feeling down the leg of your pants, but it tends to make your audience distinctly uncomfortable.

oh cord, you should google the word hypocrite. You called my clear and specific post spin then literally spun out earths gravitational field with your latest post. anyhoo, please respond to the clear and specific examples of republicans lying about their concern for deficits and letting more Americans suffer and suffer longer for their political benefit. Again, I question their methods because they pander and lie to an ignorant base. Their faux concern for deficits while letting more people and suffer longer perfectly illustrates my point.

 

[bomberfox]

Any time someone starts talking economics, there is always going to be spin involved. There are always trade-offs, always people coming out ahead and others getting the short end of the stick. That's why it's called "the dismal science"... and it's also why President Truman's biggest lament was that he never could find a one-armed economist who couldn't tell him, "On the other hand..."

I'll tell you straight, Vern... because I've been studying the subject for the better part of my life now... whether you come at economics from the left or you come at it from the right, there's never going to be a "perfect solution" that solves all problems with no drawbacks. You might as well go off in search of the Holy Grail. LBJ used to say that giving a speech about economics is akin to getting up on stage and urinating yourself.... it may give you a warm feeling down the leg of your pants, but it tends to make your audience distinctly uncomfortable.

I dont take US presidents to be the most knowledgeable in economics but yes you are correct in a way, however an economist can be objective in that they dont have to set the goals just explain how an economy works and explain what can be realistically achieved.

 

[bomberfox]

Uncharitable or not, I'm sick of this whole "Obama was treated poorly because of racism line"... it's just not true. It's worse than not true... it's an excuse that perpetuates the myth that people of color can't compete on a level playing field.

What you've got to realize about McConnell is that he's operating on a code... you don't get good faith out of the man by just showing up. You've got to earn it... and until you earn it, he's just going to walk all over you. Doesn't matter what your skin color happens to be.

Nobody could have earned mcconnel’s good faith. He is not a good faith actor nor has he ever been. Its why he is called the gravedigger of democracy. He is willing to make people suffer and even turn on his made up rules on a dime. Its delusional to think anyone could have made mcconnel act anyway else than what benefits him and him only. He doesnt live by a code at all. I did not say anyone who disagrees with obama is a racist, you are reading too much into my post.

that supposed code went out the window right quick when he had a chance to stack the courts.

Mitch McConnell Is The Most Hated Senator In America

A new list of approval ratings reveals that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is the most unpopular senator in the country.

www.politicususa.com

i think the best solution to McConnel is to abolish the power he has.

 

[bomberfox]

People keep saying mcconnel is an institutionalist without ever showing what makes him an institutionalist. Of course that goes out the window when you consider his flip flopping on the supposed “Biden rule”. Institutionalists dont tend to be hypocrites then blame the other side for their hypocrisy.

 

[bomberfox]

has mcconnel vowed to make any other president a one term president? Has mcconnel ever said his crowning achievement was to tell Obama he will hold up a scotus seat to anyone other than Obama? Its obvious to me its pretty damn convenient for him to pull this stunt during the presidency his own party didnt even believe was a citizen. Its obvious to me that McConnel would not accept ANYONE having a hearing not even if obama nominated Kavanaugh.

 

[bomberfox]

Actually there is a point to be made about Obama’s method of politicking and yeah cord you are right to criticize obama for not being more forceful. I just dont think there was any way Obama could have earned good faith from McConnel. He should have worked with democrats to hand mcconnel his ass and make him like it.

 

[Cordelier]

oh cord, you should google the word hypocrite. You called my clear and specific post spin then literally spun out earths gravitational field with your latest post. anyhoo, please respond to the clear and specific examples of republicans lying about their concern for deficits and letting more Americans suffer and suffer longer for their political benefit. Again, I question their methods because they pander and lie to an ignorant base. Their faux concern for deficits while letting more people and suffer longer perfectly illustrates my point.

There's nothing wrong with indulging in spin, Vern.... just like there's nothing wrong with indulging in bourbon. The only time you tend to get into trouble is when you start denying your intake and proof.

Republicans have an ignorant base.... but guess what? So do Democrats. When you get right down to it, most people end up voting the way they do because that's the way their parents and grandparents did.

 

[Cordelier]

I dont take US presidents to be the most knowledgeable in economics but yes you are correct in a way, however an economist can be objective in that they dont have to set the goals just explain how an economy works and explain what can be realistically achieved.

True, but I usually find there are multiple paths to getting what can be realistically achieved. Picking and choosing between them usually comes down who you want to reap the benefits and who pays the price.

 

[Vern]

There's nothing wrong with indulging in spin, Vern.... just like there's nothing wrong with indulging in bourbon. The only time you tend to get into trouble is when you start denying your intake and proof.

Republicans have an ignorant base.... but guess what? So do Democrats. When you get right down to it, most people end up voting the way they do because that's the way their parents and grandparents did.

Lets see, we get to add deflecting and "both sides" to your already documented hypocrisy. Sure there are ignorant people on both sides but the ignorant ones on the right make up a large percentage not majority of the base. And they are pandered and lied to constantly. We know that from the large percentage if not majority of conservatives who believed President Obama was born in Kenya, his BC a forgery, death panels, the vile and disgusting "stand down" lies and my favorite "republicans really really really want to lower the deficit if not balance it." Oh and dont forget the rest of the Obamacare lies. There is simply no equal but opposite of those examples on the left. If you want to call both sides ignorant you need more than just saying "both sides". This is a debate forum and you seem to be putting a lot of effort in not debating.

 

[Cordelier]

Nobody could have earned mcconnel’s good faith. He is not a good faith actor nor has he ever been. Its why he is called the gravedigger of democracy. He is willing to make people suffer and even turn on his made up rules on a dime. Its delusional to think anyone could have made mcconnel act anyway else than what benefits him and him only. He doesnt live by a code at all. I did not say anyone who disagrees with obama is a racist, you are reading too much into my post.

that supposed code went out the window right quick when he had a chance to stack the courts.

Mitch McConnell Is The Most Hated Senator In America

A new list of approval ratings reveals that Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is the most unpopular senator in the country.

www.politicususa.com

i think the best solution to McConnel is to abolish the power he has.

Do you really think the Democrats would have played it differently, though? If they were the majority when RBG died, and if Trump had named a replacement that Manchin and Sinema could have voted for (setting up a Pence tie-breaker), do you really think Schumer would have let it come to the floor?

 

[Vern]

Do you really think the Democrats would have played it differently, though? If they were the majority when RBG died, and if Trump had named a replacement that Manchin and Sinema could have voted for (setting up a Pence tie-breaker), do you really think Schumer would have let it come to the floor?

Sorry Cord, there are a couple of things wrong with your latest "supposin". First, we know from the examples I posted to you, democrats put America first and you've not really demonstrated a grasp of anything other than conservative narratives. Second, your silly question is simply a deflection from the flaming lying hypocrisy of the right in general and McConnell specifically. He stalled a supreme court nominee from President 8 months before an election rammed one through weeks before another. When you can address this honestly, please ask all the questions you want.

 

[Cordelier]

has mcconnel vowed to make any other president a one term president? Has mcconnel ever said his crowning achievement was to tell Obama he will hold up a scotus seat to anyone other than Obama? Its obvious to me its pretty damn convenient for him to pull this stunt during the presidency his own party didnt even believe was a citizen. Its obvious to me that McConnel would not accept ANYONE having a hearing not even if obama nominated Kavanaugh.

Um... isn't it the goal of every opposition leader to make sure the President gets voted out next time around? You don't think Tip O'Neill wanted Reagan to be a one-term President? Or that Newt Gingrich wanted to make Clinton a one-term President? If anything, McConnell should be given props for actually being honest and calling it as he sees it.

 

[bomberfox]

Um... isn't it the goal of every opposition leader to make sure the President gets voted out next time around? You don't think Tip O'Neill wanted Reagan to be a one-term President? Or that Newt Gingrich wanted to make Clinton a one-term President? If anything, McConnell should be given props for actually being honest and calling it as he sees it.

Tip o’neil probably didnt shut down the government and fail to do his job on scotus nominations. How far do you think Tip would have gone? I do see your point though. Like the lengths mcconnel was willing to go to accomplish that were pretty unique.

 

[Cordelier]

Sorry Cord, there are a couple of things wrong with your latest "supposin". First, we know from the examples I posted to you, democrats put America first and you've not really demonstrated a grasp of anything other than conservative narratives. Second, your silly question is simply a deflection from the flaming lying hypocrisy of the right in general and McConnell specifically. He stalled a supreme court nominee from President 8 months before an election rammed one through weeks before another. When you can address this honestly, please ask all the questions you want.

Are you asking if it was hypocrisy on McConnell's part? Absolutely. Wow... a hypocritical politician. I'm shocked! Who knew there was such hypocrisy in Washington?

Get over it, Vern... this is the way politics are played. If you've got the votes, you win. If you don't, you try and make sure the other side loses.

 

[Vern]

Um... isn't it the goal of every opposition leader to make sure the President gets voted out next time around? You don't think Tip O'Neill wanted Reagan to be a one-term President? Or that Newt Gingrich wanted to make Clinton a one-term President? If anything, McConnell should be given props for actually being honest and calling it as he sees it.

Look, more "supposin" on your part. I see you still havent grasped the significance of McConnel's statement or republican policy. republicans purposely let Americans suffer and suffer longer for their political gain. I've proven by pointing out that republicans blocked a jobs bill when needed because of faux concern for deficits but couldnt balloon the deficit fast enough for corporate tax cuts. Democrats have always put America first. I've proven this by pointing out that democrats voted for stimulus under Bush, Obama, trump and Biden. Democrats even had to help ryan pass trump's budgets.

 

[Vern]

Are you asking if it was hypocrisy on McConnell's part? Absolutely. Wow... a hypocritical politician. I'm shocked! Who knew there was such hypocrisy in Washington?

Get over it, Vern... this is the way politics are played. If you've got the votes, you win. If you don't, you try and make sure the other side loses.

Actually he's a lying hypocrite. and his ignorant base cheered him on because fox news told them to. But thats not the point. You were trying to pretend "both sides" with your "supposin". You have no reason to assume "both sides" but you obediently post it.