An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid.

[Gatsby]

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix announced on its website that it determined after careful study that the Rev. Andres Arango had used the wrong wording in baptisms performed up until June 17, 2021. He had been off by a single word.

During baptisms in both English and Spanish, Arango used the phrase "we baptize you in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." He should have said "I baptize," the diocese explained.

"It is not the community that baptizes a person and incorporates them into the Church of Christ; rather, it is Christ, and Christ alone, who presides at all sacraments; therefore, it is Christ who baptizes," it said. "If you were baptized using the wrong words, that means your baptism is invalid, and you are not baptized."

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix found that Rev. Andres Arango had been incorrectly saying "we baptize" instead of "I baptize." The error made thousands of baptisms and subsequent sacraments invalid.

www.npr.org

It seems to me that if your religion teaches that your eternal salvation depends on another person muttering exactly the right words without even a minor mistake, you should probably question your religion.

 

[Daisy]

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix found that Rev. Andres Arango had been incorrectly saying "we baptize" instead of "I baptize." The error made thousands of baptisms and subsequent sacraments invalid.

www.npr.org

It seems to me that if your religion teaches that your eternal salvation depends on another person muttering exactly the right words without even a minor mistake, you should probably question your religion.

Ain't that the truth...lol...

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix found that Rev. Andres Arango had been incorrectly saying "we baptize" instead of "I baptize." The error made thousands of baptisms and subsequent sacraments invalid.

www.npr.org

It seems to me that if your religion teaches that your eternal salvation depends on another person muttering exactly the right words without even a minor mistake, you should probably question your religion.

The church did all these people a huge favor.
Now they can walk away and never look back.

 

[MamboDervish]

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid.​

Yeah - ya gotta love religious dogma. How many things in life are this entertaining?

 

[RobertU]

It seems they got it wrong, if it is "Christ who baptizes" then "we" would be correct as it means "I and Christ baptize you."

 

[XDU]

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix found that Rev. Andres Arango had been incorrectly saying "we baptize" instead of "I baptize." The error made thousands of baptisms and subsequent sacraments invalid.

www.npr.org

It seems to me that if your religion teaches that your eternal salvation depends on another person muttering exactly the right words without even a minor mistake, you should probably question your religion.

This one word is huge.

The priest represents authority in the word spoken by who people believe in. If he did this on random mistaken occasion, it might be forgivable, but he did it in repeated habit which means he deliberately changed the meaning.

 

[phoenix2020]

I imagine that some of these people have since passed away and are now condemned to eternal damnation because of a grammar mistake? Is that the case? If so, then... yikes... dumb religion if one's fate is more heavily influenced by some dude's grammar than the life you actually lived.

 

[Noodlegawd]

It seems to me that ....you should probably question your religion.

FTFY

 

[Gatsby]

This one word is huge.

Maybe so, but it went unnoticed by his own congregation for over 20 years. I'm sure most Catholics commit heresies on a daily basis, every time they discuss their own religion, without even knowing it. I know a Catholic priest from my college days who told me that the Christmas song "Mary Did You Know" includes heresy in the line "This child that you've delivered will soon deliver you," because it denies the Immaculate Conception. I bet most Catholics would sing right along with the song and have no idea. Same with "We baptize" rather than "I baptize." How many Catholics could even explain the theological distinction, much less think it important?

The priest represents authority in the word spoken by who people believe in.

But that's what I'm saying, maybe a religion that requires trusting your eternal salvation to some rando muttering exactly the right words when you're a baby is a bad belief system. I wonder how many billions of Catholics have gone to hell because their priest messed it up?

If he did this on random mistaken occasion, it might be forgivable, but he did it in repeated habit

It seems weird that God would open the pearly gates to someone who was baptized with the wrong words, but only if there weren't lots of others from the same church with the same problem. Does God have a quota for forgiveness?

which means he deliberately changed the meaning.

It sounds like there's no indication from either the diocese or the priest himself that it was anything other than an honest mistake. He probably learned it wrong and no one ever corrected him.

 

[XDU]

Maybe so, but it went unnoticed by his own congregation for over 20 years. I'm sure most Catholics commit heresies on a daily basis, every time they discuss their own religion, without even knowing it. I know a Catholic priest from my college days who told me that the Christmas song "Mary Did You Know" includes heresy in the line "This child that you've delivered will soon deliver you," because it denies the Immaculate Conception. I bet most Catholics would sing right along with the song and have no idea. Same with "We baptize" rather than "I baptize." How many Catholics could even explain the theological distinction, much less think it important?

But that's what I'm saying, maybe a religion that requires trusting your eternal salvation to some rando muttering exactly the right words when you're a baby is a bad belief system. I wonder how many billions of Catholics have gone to hell because their priest messed it up?

It seems weird that God would open the pearly gates to someone who was baptized with the wrong words, but only if there weren't lots of others from the same church with the same problem. Does God have a quota for forgiveness?

It sounds like there's no indication from either the diocese or the priest himself that it was anything other than an honest mistake. He probably learned it wrong and no one ever corrected him.

Laity might screw up, but clergy are entrusted to be formal spiritual experts who believers can depend on for guidance and leadership. This is especially important when it comes to the sacraments which are deliberately sacred.

 

[Grand Mal]

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix found that Rev. Andres Arango had been incorrectly saying "we baptize" instead of "I baptize." The error made thousands of baptisms and subsequent sacraments invalid.

www.npr.org

It seems to me that if your religion teaches that your eternal salvation depends on another person muttering exactly the right words without even a minor mistake, you should probably question your religion.

Especially if your religion is one whose God refers to Himself as plural but a priest commits a grave error doing the same thing.

 

[XDU]

Especially if your religion is one whose God refers to Himself as plural but a priest commits a grave error doing the same thing.

There's a difference between three aspects of the same divine being versus three different divine beings.

 

[Gatsby]

Laity might screw up, but clergy are entrusted to be formal spiritual experts who believers can depend on for guidance and leadership. This is especially important when it comes to the sacraments which are deliberately sacred.

But it isn't the priest's personal salvation that's in question...it's all the people he baptized. Taken to its logical conclusion, this suggests one of two possibilities: 1) Jesus didn't want to extend salvation to those people, or 2) Jesus made a mistake in deputizing the Catholic Church to provide for their sacraments.

Those both seem much more antithetical to Catholicism than just saying "Priests are human, minor mistakes happen, but you're fine since everyone intended for the baptism to be done correctly." I'm sure he wasn't the first priest to screw it up...probably literally millions of people have been baptized with the wrong words. If the Catholic Church is saying that none of those baptisms are valid, they are essentially saying that no one should trust them with their salvation.

 

[XDU]

But it isn't the priest's personal salvation that's in question...it's all the people he baptized. Taken to its logical conclusion, this suggests one of two possibilities: 1) Jesus didn't want to extend salvation to those people, or 2) Jesus made a mistake in deputizing the Catholic Church to provide for their sacraments.

Those both seem much more antithetical to Catholicism than just saying "Priests are human, minor mistakes happen, but you're fine since everyone intended for the baptism to be done correctly." I'm sure he wasn't the first priest to screw it up...probably literally millions of people have been baptized with the wrong words. If the Catholic Church is saying that none of those baptisms are valid, they are essentially saying that no one should trust them with their salvation.

In Christianity, the word of God itself is paramount when understanding salvation. Yes, there is wiggle room when it comes to appreciating the spirit of the word rather than the letter, but that wiggle room has limits. We aren't entitled to redefine basic words in language as we see fit. We are only allowed to consider the complications of what happens when basic words are put together, and we still have to abide by exegesis and hermeneutics when appreciating cultural history and complete and consistent linguistics.

Mistaking "I" for "we" is a basic word problem. There's no wiggle room for consideration.

 

[Argent]

This entire situation is ridiculous and a further example of how evil is religion.

Now let's ponder this religious institution, the Vatican, that for decades protected pedophile priests, having the gall to invalidate this sacrament and as a consequence all other sacraments bestowed by this priest. Un*******believable.

 

[XDU]

More information here:

 

[nota bene]

Maybe so, but it went unnoticed by his own congregation for over 20 years. I'm sure most Catholics commit heresies on a daily basis, every time they discuss their own religion, without even knowing it. I know a Catholic priest from my college days who told me that the Christmas song "Mary Did You Know" includes heresy in the line "This child that you've delivered will soon deliver you," because it denies the Immaculate Conception. I bet most Catholics would sing right along with the song and have no idea. Same with "We baptize" rather than "I baptize." How many Catholics could even explain the theological distinction, much less think it important?

Color me exceedingly dubious about your Catholic priest friend. What does the Immaculate Conception have to do with anything?

 

[nota bene]

This one word is huge.

The priest represents authority in the word spoken by who people believe in. If he did this on random mistaken occasion, it might be forgivable, but he did it in repeated habit which means he deliberately changed the meaning.

Yes, this one word is huge. I don't think, however, that this priest used "we" deliberately. English isn't his first language, and my guess is that he learned the "formula" wrong and simply kept repeating the mistake because he didn't know any better.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Even more evidence of how insane religion is.

 

[Lovebug]

An Arizona priest used one wrong word in baptisms for decades. They're all invalid

The Catholic Diocese of Phoenix found that Rev. Andres Arango had been incorrectly saying "we baptize" instead of "I baptize." The error made thousands of baptisms and subsequent sacraments invalid.

www.npr.org

It seems to me that if your religion teaches that your eternal salvation depends on another person muttering exactly the right words without even a minor mistake, you should probably question your religion.

Can't change the heart and can't change faith, no matter how much one tries.

Edit
no matter how many are clapping

 

[Gatsby]

Color me exceedingly dubious about your Catholic priest friend. What does the Immaculate Conception have to do with anything?

In the song, the line is "This child that you [Mary] delivered, will soon deliver you." Apparently Catholics consider that heresy, because Mary had already been saved ~15 years earlier in the Immaculate Conception. She wasn't waiting around for Jesus to be born to save her, in their view.

 

[Gatsby]

More information here:

OK, the priest isn't a freelancer, and maybe that's grounds for the church to discipline or remove the priest. But not to invalidate all of the baptisms he performed. The Catholic Church believes that they are the representatives of Jesus, and in fact their whole point in saying "I baptize" is that Jesus has deputized each priest personally to perform the sacraments. By invalidating them, they are saying that Jesus made a mistake.

For some of the congregation, this will just be a minor inconvenience since they have to get baptized again. But imagine if this priest had baptized a loved one who has since passed away. The Catholic Church is essentially saying that they are not saved and you will never see them again...not through any fault of their own but because the church's own representative screwed it up. I'm not Catholic, but if I was that would be the sort of thing that would cause me to leave the church. They are flat-out telling their members that they can't trust the church.

 

[reflechissez]

Yes, this one word is huge. I don't think, however, that this priest used "we" deliberately. English isn't his first language, and my guess is that he learned the "formula" wrong and simply kept repeating the mistake because he didn't know any better.

That's not the point. The ridiculousness of it is the point.

 

[nota bene]

In the song, the line is "This child that you [Mary] delivered, will soon deliver you." Apparently Catholics consider that heresy, because Mary had already been saved ~15 years earlier in the Immaculate Conception. She wasn't waiting around for Jesus to be born to save her, in their view.

Why Does Mary Need a Savior if She was Sinless?

If Mary never sinned, then why does she refer to God as her savior?

onthisrockapologetics.com

 

[Gatsby]

Why Does Mary Need a Savior if She was Sinless?

If Mary never sinned, then why does she refer to God as her savior?

onthisrockapologetics.com

They believe Jesus/God saved Mary, but not after he was born. She was saved from the moment of her Immaculate Conception, in Catholic dogma. As your webpage notes: "When we say that Jesus is Mary’s savior, we understand that to mean that he saved her from sin by preserving her from it."