America is more divided today than 4 years ago

[Perotista]

Cynical but true. Again, would be nice for the partisan to pull his support and break that trend.

The AG being a partisan animal goes back all the way to Nixon with Mitchell and probably back to JFK when he had his brother RFK as AG. Heck it probably goes all the way back to George Washington and Edmund Randolph.

 

[Perotista]

Ole George Wallace! I knew you'd remember. I love the other one too.

There's no way I forget old George from next door. But I do think as long as we, the voters continue to send Republicans and Democrats to Washington, we are just helping them cater to all the special interests and lobbyist who finance their campaigns.

 

[nic11]

There's no way I forget old George from next door. But I do think as long as we, the voters continue to send Republicans and Democrats to Washington, we are just helping them cater to all the special interests and lobbyist who finance their campaigns.

Exactly, even if we sent an independent Rand Paul or Bernie Sanders, what would we gain? They are only as efficient as the system in place.

And for now the SCOTUS seems to be making all the moves. I think we have some high court rulings that need repeal.....

 

[Paxaeon]

`

 

[Paxaeon]

Exactly, even if we sent an independent Rand Paul or Bernie Sanders, what would we gain? They are only as efficient as the system in place.And for now the SCOTUS seems to be making all the moves. I think we have some high court rulings that need repeal.....

`
The American people have been duped so often, it has become ironic sarcasm which escaped the more dullard minds. It's not the parties that have caused the problem per se, it's the corporations that have bought out both parties. For mere ideology, people have willing sold out their rights, their well being, their land, their privacy all under the guise that it is good for the corporations....the job creators so to speak.

Pogo (Waly Kelly) was right, We have met the enemy and he is us. So long as we can't even agree with what's good for us: clean air, clean water, etc....all this hand wringing blaming the politicians plays right into the hands of the corporations. Too bad certain people can think beyond their very limited scope,

[h=3][/h]

 

[nic11]

`
The American people have been duped so often, it has become ironic sarcasm which escaped the more dullard minds. It's not the parties that have caused the problem per se, it's the corporations that have bought out both parties. For mere ideology, people have willing sold out their rights, their well being, their land, their privacy all under the guise that it is good for the corporations....the job creators so to speak.

Pogo (Waly Kelly) was right, We have met the enemy and he is us. So long as we can't even agree with what's good for us: clean air, clean water, etc....all this hand wringing blaming the politicians plays right into the hands of the corporations. Too bad certain people can think beyond their very limited scope,

[h=3][/h]

I couldn't have said it better.

 

[ocean515]

`
The American people have been duped so often, it has become ironic sarcasm which escaped the more dullard minds. It's not the parties that have caused the problem per se, it's the corporations that have bought out both parties. For mere ideology, people have willing sold out their rights, their well being, their land, their privacy all under the guise that it is good for the corporations....the job creators so to speak.

Pogo (Waly Kelly) was right, We have met the enemy and he is us. So long as we can't even agree with what's good for us: clean air, clean water, etc....all this hand wringing blaming the politicians plays right into the hands of the corporations. Too bad certain people can think beyond their very limited scope,

[h=3][/h]

You know, "limited scope" was a concept I was thinking of when reading your post, and then there you go, you self diagnosed! Well done.

Outside the conspiracy theory of big corporations clung to by the OWS crowd and most radical progressives, the truth behind the divide could likely be attributed to how we communicate in these days, more than anything else.

Today it's blogs and tweets, facebook and emails. The filter which limits the tenor of our comments when made face to face, is no longer there when it's just words and a send button. As such, "fighting words" tend to be used rather than less confronting words that would be expected face to face.

I think the divisions being stirred up will lessen once new communication "norms" are understood. What used to be "fighting words" when spoken face to face, will be considered less confrontational as electronic communication continues to replace the spoken word.

 

[Carleen]

67% of Americans see a more divided nation today than 4 years ago
35% blame President Obama
34% blame Republicans in Congress
23% blame both parties and the President

Voters See A More Divided Nation; GOPers More Enthusiastic to Vote - Rasmussen Reports™

The divide and conquer strategies that both parties use to win elections is something I have been harping on for a long time. Apparently I am not the only one to notice how this nation is fast becoming more divided than ever. Abraham Lincoln once said, “A house divided against itself cannot stand.” This nation is that house.

I would say the country is more divided since we did not elect a president who is lily white.

 

[Paxaeon]

You know, "limited scope" was a concept I was thinking of when reading your post, and then there you go, you self diagnosed! Well done.
Outside the conspiracy theory of big corporations clung to by the OWS crowd and most radical progressives, the truth behind the divide could likely be attributed to how we communicate in these days, more than anything else.
Today it's blogs and tweets, facebook and emails. The filter which limits the tenor of our comments when made face to face, is no longer there when it's just words and a send button. As such, "fighting words" tend to be used rather than less confronting words that would be expected face to face. I think the divisions being stirred up will lessen once new communication "norms" are understood. What used to be "fighting words" when spoken face to face, will be considered less confrontational as electronic communication continues to replace the spoken word.

`
I has a graphic/cartoon which showed people selling themselves out to the corporations but alas, someone suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect saw it differently. Once people can actually look at then selves and see how they are collectively acting, can a true picture of the enormity of this problem be appreciated. At this point. liberal/conservative and democrat/republican doesn't matter when you have a populace that is so conditioned. Stupidity, it would seem is a human condition.

 

[ocean515]

`
I has a graphic/cartoon which showed people selling themselves out to the corporations but alas, someone suffering from the Dunning–Kruger effect saw it differently. Once people can actually look at then selves and see how they are collectively acting, can a true picture of the enormity of this problem be appreciated. At this point. liberal/conservative and democrat/republican doesn't matter when you have a populace that is so conditioned. Stupidity, it would seem is a human condition.

I saw your ridiculous cartoon. I'm sure the cartoonist is glad to know at least some members of society posses the human condition you referenced.

It's always good to have windmills to tilt at when the truth is being invented. I suppose to some degree, that is why so many are willing to accept other peoples reasons for the limitations they have accepted for themselves.

That being said, I do think the divide has something to do with the rancor behind the way people are communicating. It's far easier to be insulting and dismissive in a post or a tweet, than it is to someone in person, face to face.

 

[Paxaeon]

I saw your ridiculous cartoon. I'm sure the cartoonist is glad to know at least some members of society posses the human condition you referenced.
It's always good to have windmills to tilt at when the truth is being invented. I suppose to some degree, that is why so many are willing to accept other peoples reasons for the limitations they have accepted for themselves.
That being said, I do think the divide has something to do with the rancor behind the way people are communicating. It's far easier to be insulting and dismissive in a post or a tweet, than it is to someone in person, face to face.

`
I guess what you are stating is that you are clueless as to what you are talking about. You support the corporate position and it's far easier to dodge the issue than confront it head on. From the comfort of your home, you pontificate about matters you don't understand other than you see your beloved corporations under attack.

Corporations divides, something you don't like the public to know...they are the sole and #1 reason for this division. Shills and other such trolls are paid for by corporations to shovel the exact same fetid mess you are trying to pass off as truth.

You are not even good in your defense of the corporations. A single image can say a thousand words and apparently the corporate interests in this site think I'm getting way to close to the facts,

 

[Perotista]

Exactly, even if we sent an independent Rand Paul or Bernie Sanders, what would we gain? They are only as efficient as the system in place.

And for now the SCOTUS seems to be making all the moves. I think we have some high court rulings that need repeal.....

Paul and Sanders are are no different than any other Republican or Democrat. Although Paul probably believes in a little more individual freedom than most of those in Washington. I do not think a win by Perot back in 92 or 96 would have really change anything, but that was not what I thought at the time. I do not think the rise of a viable third and fourth political parties to replace the Republicans and Democrats would do any good. It would be just a matter of time before the special interests, lobbyist, wall street, corporations etc bought them just like they now own the Republicans and Democrats.

The SCOTUS has also became more of a political machine with each judge having their own political agenda than really deciding what is constitutional or not. Confidence in government, there is none or there is just a little bit.

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Notice only 30% of all Americans have confidence in the SCOTUS to rule on cases according to the constitution.

 

[Montecresto]

`
The American people have been duped so often, it has become ironic sarcasm which escaped the more dullard minds. It's not the parties that have caused the problem per se, it's the corporations that have bought out both parties. For mere ideology, people have willing sold out their rights, their well being, their land, their privacy all under the guise that it is good for the corporations....the job creators so to speak.

Pogo (Waly Kelly) was right, We have met the enemy and he is us. So long as we can't even agree with what's good for us: clean air, clean water, etc....all this hand wringing blaming the politicians plays right into the hands of the corporations. Too bad certain people can think beyond their very limited scope,

[h=3][/h]

Yep, several of us here make this point regularly. Great cartoon pic, they forgot, 'give us open borders', another big business interest!

 

[Perotista]

I would say the country is more divided since we did not elect a president who is lily white.

I would say you are all wet, but I am too nice a guy to do so. I think the division in Washington started in 2006 when 31 more or less hard left Democrats replaced the equal amount of more moderate Republicans followed by 2008 when 23 more hard left Democrats replaced more moderate Republicans. Then in 2010 you had 63 hard right republicans replace mostly the moderate blue dog democrats so we end up with a House of Representatives with very few moderates. The Senate was the same way, basically 16 hard left Democrats in 2006 and 2008 replaced the more moderate factions of Republicans, but in 2010 the far right Republicans replace 6 more moderate Democrats so the senate is what it is today.

You have two sides today that want 100% of everything they want and if they can't get 100% are more than willing to settle for nothing than give the other party 5% of what they want in order to get 95%. The senate use to have leaders like Mitchell and Dole, like Lott and Daschle who would work with each other, who were not afraid of the game of give and take. Now you have leaders like Reid who is only interested in keeping the Democrats in the majority and McConnell who is only interested in becoming the majority. They refuse to work with each other. We have people in Washington now who are more interested in being Republicans and Democrats than Americans. People who are only interested in their parties agenda, not Americas.

Back in 2005 only 30% of the electorate identified themselves as independents, today as of 10 July 2014, 45% of the electorate now say they are independents. I call that disgust with both parties and both parties putting their own good above Americas.

 

[ocean515]

`
I guess what you are stating is that you are clueless as to what you are talking about. You support the corporate position and it's far easier to dodge the issue than confront it head on. From the comfort of your home, you pontificate about matters you don't understand other than you see your beloved corporations under attack.

Corporations divides, something you don't like the public to know...they are the sole and #1 reason for this division. Shills and other such trolls are paid for by corporations to shovel the exact same fetid mess you are trying to pass off as truth.

You are not even good in your defense of the corporations. A single image can say a thousand words and apparently the corporate interests in this site think I'm getting way to close to the facts,

LOL.

Awesome post. Typical radical progressive BS filled with hate speech and personal insults. You're living, breathing cliché.

Probably best to leave you to your hate and delusion. Thanks for the exchange.

Thought I would add, thanks for proving my observation so perfectly. Where do I send the thank you note?

 

[Montecresto]

You know, "limited scope" was a concept I was thinking of when reading your post, and then there you go, you self diagnosed! Well done.

Outside the conspiracy theory of big corporations clung to by the OWS crowd and most radical progressives, the truth behind the divide could likely be attributed to how we communicate in these days, more than anything else.

Today it's blogs and tweets, facebook and emails. The filter which limits the tenor of our comments when made face to face, is no longer there when it's just words and a send button. As such, "fighting words" tend to be used rather than less confronting words that would be expected face to face.

I think the divisions being stirred up will lessen once new communication "norms" are understood. What used to be "fighting words" when spoken face to face, will be considered less confrontational as electronic communication continues to replace the spoken word.

Very nice analysis ocean with regards to all but the big corporations and conspiracy part that I would take slight issue with. Nobody can deny the power of money, and the shear numbers of lobbyists spreading it around Washington. All people want to see when they attack big business is adequate checks and balances that give at least some level of protection to individuals. That's a reason for the creation of unions as well. America had its day of non existence regulation and the American worker, some of them minors paid a heavy price. In the course of time, those wrongs were corrected. And Americans are resisting any losses to those gains. There will always be a struggle between business and labor, and one of governments roles is to arbitrate and protect the interests of both. It's really not a conspiracy but a reality that has to be dealt with.

 

[ocean515]

Very nice analysis ocean with regards to all but the big corporations and conspiracy part that I would take slight issue with. Nobody can deny the power of money, and the shear numbers of lobbyists spreading it around Washington. All people want to see when they attack big business is adequate checks and balances that give at least some level of protection to individuals. That's a reason for the creation of unions as well. America had its day of non existence regulation and the American worker, some of them minors paid a heavy price. In the course of time, those wrongs were corrected. And Americans are resisting any losses to those gains. There will always be a struggle between business and labor, and one of governments roles is to arbitrate and protect the interests of both. It's really not a conspiracy but a reality that has to be dealt with.

I don't deny the influence big corporations have on policy and other issues. I just don't subscribe to the theory that it's big business above the stage, moving the public around by sticks and strings. Business is made up of people, the same people who want their own families to thrive, and their grandchildren to enjoy the same level of success and freedom they have enjoyed.

We do need protections. We need protections from ourselves, and from our own poorly thought out actions. That also holds true for business. However, what we have today, is this "kill the messenger" mentality at the slightest mention of disagreement over the approach to policies and agendas. It seems obvious to me, this breeds contempt and anger, which then divides us further.

 

[Carleen]

I would say you are all wet, but I am too nice a guy to do so. I think the division in Washington started in 2006 when 31 more or less hard left Democrats replaced the equal amount of more moderate Republicans followed by 2008 when 23 more hard left Democrats replaced more moderate Republicans. Then in 2010 you had 63 hard right republicans replace mostly the moderate blue dog democrats so we end up with a House of Representatives with very few moderates. The Senate was the same way, basically 16 hard left Democrats in 2006 and 2008 replaced the more moderate factions of Republicans, but in 2010 the far right Republicans replace 6 more moderate Democrats so the senate is what it is today.

You have two sides today that want 100% of everything they want and if they can't get 100% are more than willing to settle for nothing than give the other party 5% of what they want in order to get 95%. The senate use to have leaders like Mitchell and Dole, like Lott and Daschle who would work with each other, who were not afraid of the game of give and take. Now you have leaders like Reid who is only interested in keeping the Democrats in the majority and McConnell who is only interested in becoming the majority. They refuse to work with each other. We have people in Washington now who are more interested in being Republicans and Democrats than Americans. People who are only interested in their parties agenda, not Americas.

Back in 2005 only 30% of the electorate identified themselves as independents, today as of 10 July 2014, 45% of the electorate now say they are independents. I call that disgust with both parties and both parties putting their own good above Americas.

I disagree. What has happened since Obama was elected is unprecedented. Some of the comments by the Tea Party which didn't exist until 2009. Take our country back..He's not one of us. He wasn't born in the U.S. which I just read here is still going strong. And now some republicans want to impeach him. Quite obvious IMO>

 

[Perotista]

I disagree. What has happened since Obama was elected is unprecedented. Some of the comments by the Tea Party which didn't exist until 2009. Take our country back..He's not one of us. He wasn't born in the U.S. which I just read here is still going strong. And now some republicans want to impeach him. Quite obvious IMO>

Have it your way, but the Democrats did try to impeach Bush and even introduced the articles to do it with.

Efforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, what is new is the hard core on both sides of the aisle. The moderates are no longer in congress to propose compromise and work for solutions. Now it is always my way or the highway. It is Senator Reid tabling 200 House bills instead of doing his job and it is McConnell filibustering everything. The gulf between the Democratic Controlled Senate and the Republican controlled House in ideological terms is wider than it has ever been in our history. Here is what I mean, take a look for yourself.

The House And Senate Are the Most Divided They’ve Been in Our Lifetimes | FiveThirtyEight

 

[Captain America]

I don't think America, or any nation for that matter, will deny History it's downfall.

All countries, over time, will evolve. Often paid for with blood.

Surely, America will have it's own "American Spring," in due time. Truly, we are divided and eventually becoming a Tower of Babel with everyone speaking a different language and subscribing to such opposing viewpoints.

Not sure I will see it in my lifetime.

 

[Carleen]

Have it your way, but the Democrats did try to impeach Bush and even introduced the articles to do it with.

Efforts to impeach George W. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No, what is new is the hard core on both sides of the aisle. The moderates are no longer in congress to propose compromise and work for solutions. Now it is always my way or the highway. It is Senator Reid tabling 200 House bills instead of doing his job and it is McConnell filibustering everything. The gulf between the Democratic Controlled Senate and the Republican controlled House in ideological terms is wider than it has ever been in our history. Here is what I mean, take a look for yourself.

The House And Senate Are the Most Divided They’ve Been in Our Lifetimes | FiveThirtyEight

Okay, I'll concede the impeach comment. We'll see what happens when whitey is back in the WH

 

[Perotista]

Okay, I'll concede the impeach comment. We'll see what happens when whitey is back in the WH

I think it will not make a difference. Washington has become so polarized unless one party controls the presidency and both chambers of congress, the Republicans and Democrats will be at each other throats. The average American is disgusted with both parties and the president, that is except the die hards of each party. The president has a 55% disapproval rating, the Democratic Senate has a 60% disapproval rating and the Republican House has a 67% disapproval rating. Congress as a whole has a 77% disapproval rating.

Take a look at the confidence factor today:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Only 30% of all Americans have confidence in the Supreme Court, 29% in the presidency and only 7% in congress. This is not a ringing endorsement for any branch of our government. Yet Republicans are too busy being Republicans and looking out for just their party and not the country, the Democrats are also too busy being Democrats and do not give the country one thought, only what is good for their party.

Both major parties are shrinking, the only reason we keep electing Republicans and Democrats is they have a monopoly on our election system. They write the election laws as a mutual protection act.

 

[Carleen]

I think it will not make a difference. Washington has become so polarized unless one party controls the presidency and both chambers of congress, the Republicans and Democrats will be at each other throats. The average American is disgusted with both parties and the president, that is except the die hards of each party. The president has a 55% disapproval rating, the Democratic Senate has a 60% disapproval rating and the Republican House has a 67% disapproval rating. Congress as a whole has a 77% disapproval rating.

Take a look at the confidence factor today:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Only 30% of all Americans have confidence in the Supreme Court, 29% in the presidency and only 7% in congress. This is not a ringing endorsement for any branch of our government. Yet Republicans are too busy being Republicans and looking out for just their party and not the country, the Democrats are also too busy being Democrats and do not give the country one thought, only what is good for their party.

Both major parties are shrinking, the only reason we keep electing Republicans and Democrats is they have a monopoly on our election system. They write the election laws as a mutual protection act.

Time will tell.

 

[Perotista]

Time will tell.

Sure it will, while you see a disease that is only associated with our president. I see it as infecting the whole government and for a much longer period time. You seem to think that the disease will be eradicated once a white person enters the office of the president, I do not. I think it is endemic, that as long as we keep electing far right and far left people who are more or less ideologues and not pragmatist things will only get worse until we have a crisis that is beyond imagination.

Yes time will tell.

 

[polgara]

I think it will not make a difference. Washington has become so polarized unless one party controls the presidency and both chambers of congress, the Republicans and Democrats will be at each other throats. The average American is disgusted with both parties and the president, that is except the die hards of each party. The president has a 55% disapproval rating, the Democratic Senate has a 60% disapproval rating and the Republican House has a 67% disapproval rating. Congress as a whole has a 77% disapproval rating.

Take a look at the confidence factor today:

Americans Losing Confidence in All Branches of U.S. Gov't

Only 30% of all Americans have confidence in the Supreme Court, 29% in the presidency and only 7% in congress. This is not a ringing endorsement for any branch of our government. Yet Republicans are too busy being Republicans and looking out for just their party and not the country, the Democrats are also too busy being Democrats and do not give the country one thought, only what is good for their party.

Both major parties are shrinking, the only reason we keep electing Republicans and Democrats is they have a monopoly on our election system. They write the election laws as a mutual protection act.

:agree: What I find most irritating is the fact that I'm reasonably certain that all of them know exactly what the poll numbers are showing! Has anything changed much? Nope! I guess that leaves the only conclusion that can be drawn that makes sense - ... *gasp*... they don't give a damn what we think! They're so busy fighting with each other that they have forgotten that they're there to do what we the people want done! What a bunch of greedy, conniving "election-winners" we have put in DC, and both parties share the blame for what has happened! I guess that's what happens when the one with the best "smear your opponent" campaign wins. It eliminates talking about important things, like the real reason we're headed for the cliff to oblivion! Nice, huh? :2mad:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave: