Amazon Workers in Alabama Vote Against Forming a Union

[aociswundumho]

Amazon Workers in Alabama Vote Against Forming a Union

The defeat of the warehouse-facility union drive hands the tech giant a victory in its biggest battle yet against labor organizing, after a campaign that fueled a national debate over working conditions.

www.wsj.com

Amazon.com Inc. employees in Alabama voted not to unionize, handing the tech giant a victory in its biggest battle yet against labor-organizing efforts that fueled national debate over working conditions at one of the nation’s largest employers.


Workers at the Bessemer warehouse overwhelmingly rejected unionization, with 71% casting ballots not to join the Retail, Wholesale and Department Store Union, according to the National Labor Relations Board.

My guess is they understand what labor cartels did to Detroit, or how they've contributed greatly to the sky-high healthcare prices all Americans are burdened with.

Anyway, this is great news for our society in general.

 

[swing_voter]

Amazon Workers in Alabama Vote Against Forming a Union

The defeat of the warehouse-facility union drive hands the tech giant a victory in its biggest battle yet against labor organizing, after a campaign that fueled a national debate over working conditions.

www.wsj.com

My guess is they understand what labor cartels did to Detroit, or how they've contributed greatly to the sky-high healthcare prices all Americans are burdened with.

Anyway, this is great news for our society in general.

The auto unions where one of the places where a working man with a high school education could have a well paying job. He could buy a house, buy a car ever other year, go on a nice vacation, etc.

I'm not sure why you're against unions. I don't get the impression that you're rich.



.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I'm not sure why you're against unions. I don't get the impression that you're rich.

What would being rich have to do with anything, on the topic of unions?

 

[Excast]

While the political right looks back longingly at the 40s and 50s when it comes to social issues, in reality it was a time of major economic success in America. We had a thriving middle class, a rapidly increasing standard of living, and much of that was built on an explosion of quality, union jobs. Our union membership rates are less than 1/3 of what they were then, and with that has come the return of massive income inequality, wages lagging behind, and companies dropping benefits to the point where many full time workers still require public assistance just to get by.

This was the choice of Amazon workers, but the continued death of private sector unions is nothing to cheer.

 

[j brown's body]

Amazon Workers in Alabama Vote Against Forming a Union

The defeat of the warehouse-facility union drive hands the tech giant a victory in its biggest battle yet against labor organizing, after a campaign that fueled a national debate over working conditions.

www.wsj.com

My guess is they understand what labor cartels did to Detroit, or how they've contributed greatly to the sky-high healthcare prices all Americans are burdened with.

Anyway, this is great news for our society in general.

A unionized workforce had a very healthy economic impact on Detroit.The workers didn't move the factories, management did.

Healthcare needn't be tied to the workplace.

 

[j brown's body]

Jeff Bezos makes the robber barons of the Gilded Age look like pikers.

 

[aociswundumho]

The auto unions where one of the places where a working man with a high school education could have a well paying job. He could buy a house, buy a car ever other year, go on a nice vacation, etc.

Of course the members of the cartel do very well for themselves. The problem is their gains come at the expense of other people.

 

[bongsaway]

Amazon Workers in Alabama Vote Against Forming a Union

The defeat of the warehouse-facility union drive hands the tech giant a victory in its biggest battle yet against labor organizing, after a campaign that fueled a national debate over working conditions.

www.wsj.com

My guess is they understand what labor cartels did to Detroit, or how they've contributed greatly to the sky-high healthcare prices all Americans are burdened with.

Anyway, this is great news for our society in general.

I'll ask you the same question I asked somebody else with your point of view. You are a registered electrician looking for a job. One company offers you twenty bucks an hour with no benefits and are not union. A union shop offers you twenty eight an hour with benefits. Which job are you going to take?

 

[j brown's body]

While the political right looks back longingly at the 40s and 50s when it comes to social issues, in reality it was a time of major economic success in America. We had a thriving middle class, a rapidly increasing standard of living, and much of that was built on an explosion of quality, union jobs. Our union membership rates are less than 1/3 of what they were then, and with that has come the return of massive income inequality, wages lagging behind, and companies dropping benefits to the point where many full time workers still require public assistance just to get by.

This was the choice of Amazon workers, but the continued death of private sector unions is nothing to cheer.

Then and now:

FULFILLMENT Winning and Losing in One-Click America

"Corporate decisions flow outward from Amazon’s headquarters in Seattle, which MacGillis uses as a site to chronicle the company’s rise from the 1990s into a behemoth that relies on egregious labor practices and political ruthlessness.

We see these practices in the chapter on Baltimore, where we meet William Kenneth Bodani Jr., a 69-year-old forklift operator in an Amazon warehouse. Under economic pressure, Bodani is forced out of retirement from the steel industry to take one of the few opportunities left in the former steel-centric peninsula of Sparrows Point. MacGillis highlights the difference between Bodani’s former job at Bethlehem Steel and his new job in the warehouse, a difference strongly hinted at in the chapter’s title, “Dignity.”

While Bodani’s experience in the steel industry was tough (evidenced by his numerous work-related injuries), he tells MacGillis: “I don’t care how dirty, how dangerous it was, how busted up I got. I loved it.” Bodani made $35 an hour with at least seven weeks of vacation while working for Beth Steel, and like many other workers in the industry, was part of a union that advocated for worker advancement. Compare this with Amazon’s drive to maximize profitability. In the same chapter, at a grim warehouse job recruitment session, workers are presented with a drug test, their starting rate of $13.75 and a sense of provisional, anonymous employment. Bodani’s job as a forklift operator includes a mere 20 minutes of “time off task” across a 10-hour shift."

 

[aociswundumho]

I'll ask you the same question I asked somebody else with your point of view. You are a registered electrician looking for a job. One company offers you twenty bucks an hour with no benefits and are not union. A union shop offers you twenty eight an hour with benefits. Which job are you going to take?

I'm in the construction business. You're not going to get into a union shop unless you know somebody. It's all politics, which is why leftists like you luv it so much. If you did get in, as soon as the work slows down you will be the first to get laid off. Doesn't matter how good you are or how hard you work. Who works and who doesn't is based on seniority and politics.

As it happens, when I was 19 or 20 I did manage to get into the carpenter's union, because was a friend of a friend of the local BA. I'll never forget my first day. I almost got beat up. But I quickly learned how to fit in. I quit after about six months, and getting out was one of the best decisions of my life.

 

[bongsaway]

I'm in the construction business. You're not going to get into a union shop unless you know somebody. It's all politics, which is why leftists like you luv it so much. If you did get in, as soon as the work slows down you will be the first to get laid off. Doesn't matter how good you are or how hard you work. Who works and who doesn't is based on seniority and politics.

As it happens, when I was 19 or 20 I did manage to get into the carpenter's union, because was a friend of a friend of the local BA. I'll never forget my first day. I almost got beat up. But I quickly learned how to fit in. I quit after about six months, and getting out was one of the best decisions of my life.

Nice story. Did it answer my question? Of course not.

 

[Neomalthusian]

A unionized workforce had a very healthy economic impact on Detroit. The workers didn't move the factories, management did.

That's a typical unionist attitude -- blame management for everything. Only praise and worship for unions. Collapses like Detroit are multivariate and there are a number of parties on whom the collapse does not reflect well. Perhaps it is not fair to claim "unions killed Detroit," and leave it at that. But what you're claiming is no more valid.

Perhaps the union's constantly adversarial, militant, obstructionist tactics in Michigan contributed to the dynamic the fueled Detroit's downfall, by making avoidance of unions seem like an overwhelmingly attractive option. Kind of like in a marriage where one partner is verbally abusing the partner, then the partner eventually decides leaving is better than fighting, and the verbally abusive partner blames the other for failure because he filed for divorce. Exclusively blaming management and exonerating unions for any contribution to the problems is just like that.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I've worked both ways, as a union member and as an "at will" employee like the Amazon folks. I'll take the former every time.

But I eventually worked for myself which is perhaps the best option.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I'll ask you the same question I asked somebody else with your point of view. You are a registered electrician looking for a job. One company offers you twenty bucks an hour with no benefits and are not union. A union shop offers you twenty eight an hour with benefits. Which job are you going to take?

Obviously self-interest will prevail if we're only looking at it from the POV of this particular worker. But we can't conclude much from this scenario other than that individuals will choose what's in their best interests.

Keep going with that self-interest question though. If you're seeking electrical labor to complete an electrical portion of a project, and one company that staffs exclusively union labor gives a 15-30% higher estimate for the work than the company that staffs non-union electricians, because the former pays 60% more for equivalent labor (after calculating benefits and so forth), assuming there's no apparent differences in competence/work quality, which one are you going to choose? Maybe consider also the possibility that it's your job to demonstrate you can source materials and labor for a project that keep it within a pre-determined budget to the extent possible, and cost creep is happening in other areas of the project. You might be just about required to demonstrate you found savings where they could be found.

 

[aociswundumho]

Nice story. Did it answer my question? Of course not.

Because it's the wrong question.

Suppose you own a small business, and you are given two options:

Option 1: Join a government-enforced cartel, which would increase the profits of your business by about 25%.

or

Option 2: Compete for customers in a free market, and make less money.

Which option would you choose?

 

[bongsaway]

Obviously self-interest will prevail if we're only looking at it from the POV of this particular worker. But we can't conclude much from this scenario other than that individuals will choose what's in their best interests.

Keep going with that self-interest question though. If you're seeking electrical labor to complete an electrical portion of a project, and one company that staffs exclusively union labor gives a 15-30% higher estimate for the work than the company that staffs non-union electricians, because the former pays 60% more for equivalent labor (after calculating benefits and so forth), assuming there's no apparent differences in competence/work quality, which one are you going to choose? Maybe consider also the possibility that it's your job to demonstrate you can source materials and labor for a project that keep it within a pre-determined budget to the extent possible, and cost creep is happening in other areas of the project. You might be just about required to demonstrate you found savings where they could be found.

Another no response to the question.

 

[bongsaway]

Because it's the wrong question.

Suppose you own a small business, and you are given two options:

Option 1: Join a government-enforced cartel, which would increase the profits of your business by about 25%.

or

Option 2: Compete for customers in a free market, and make less money.

Which option would you choose?

You don't get to say I asked the wrong question it's my thread. So, thanks again for another non answer to my question. You and other can dance around it all you want to keep from saying you would take the higher paying job with benefits. I understand you have to keep your image intact with the rest of the union haters.

 

[Neomalthusian]

Another no response to the question.

I answered the question. Self-interest will prevail. Struggling to understand what I mean? The worker will choose the higher compensation package. What do you think this proves?

 

[bongsaway]

I answered the question. Self-interest will prevail. Struggling to understand what I mean? The worker will choose the higher compensation package. What do you think this proves?

You answered and then proceeded to explain why it's better to go non union. So which one is it with your mixed message. Will YOU take the union job?

 

[j brown's body]

That's a typical unionist attitude -- blame management for everything. Only praise and worship for unions. Collapses like Detroit are multivariate and there are a number of parties on whom the collapse does not reflect well. Perhaps it is not fair to claim "unions killed Detroit," and leave it at that. But what you're claiming is no more valid.

Perhaps the union's constantly adversarial, militant, obstructionist tactics in Michigan contributed to the dynamic the fueled Detroit's downfall, by making avoidance of unions seem like an overwhelmingly attractive option. Kind of like in a marriage where one partner is verbally abusing the partner, then the partner eventually decides leaving is better than fighting, and the verbally abusive partner blames the other for failure because he filed for divorce. Exclusively blaming management and exonerating unions for any contribution to the problems is just like that.

You would need to provide an example of what you are talking about.

 

[aociswundumho]

You don't get to say I asked the wrong question it's my thread. So, thanks again for another non answer to my question. You and other can dance around it all you want to keep from saying you would take the higher paying job with benefits. I understand you have to keep your image intact with the rest of the union haters.

So why didn't you answer my question?

 

[j brown's body]

Because it's the wrong question.

Suppose you own a small business, and you are given two options:

Option 1: Join a government-enforced cartel, which would increase the profits of your business by about 25%.

or

Option 2: Compete for customers in a free market, and make less money.

Which option would you choose?

Amazon is not a small business. They eat small businesses.

 

[j brown's body]

Of course the members of the cartel do very well for themselves. The problem is their gains come at the expense of other people.

They spend their gains and that helps other people.

 

[poweRob]

Of course the members of the cartel do very well for themselves. The problem is their gains come at the expense of other people.

Funny how you don't see that with respect to CEO's who now make over 300 times that of the workers and growing.

 

[bongsaway]

So why didn't you answer my question?

Start your own thread and I will answer.