Am I Becoming a Democrat?

[FreeThinker]

Over the past couple weeks while struggling really, really hard in school, I came to the realization that the only reason I'm able to spend this amount of time studying and thinking is because of stuff people gave me.

The government gave me a pell grant, my mom helped with rent, and student loans paid the rest. Basically, I'm living off of charity and promises of what I'm going to do later in life.

What is the difference between me and someone on welfare? There are probably millions of middle class white people like me that get government money to go to college, and I'm willing to bet that a large number don't ever get a real job or pay back the money. Those tax dollars disappear into the same black hole as any other wasteful program.

I hate to admit this, but there is NO WAY I could be doing this without charity. Yup. I said it. CHARITY. Someone gave me something for free. If I had to work 60 hour weeks living in a dimly lit apartment with no place to study, I would fail. Period. I'd be a ****ing dishwasher for life.

I still think that if a person chooses to hurt other people, they should die/be in prison. But as far as extremely poor people on welfare are concerned, I don't hold them responsible if they can't make it out of the ghetto. I DO hold them responsible, though, if they have kids knowing the life that child will have.

If you're having sex without a condom and you don't have a job, you should burn in hell. If you just don't have a job, well, I'll at least pay to feed and clothe you until you die. Just don't expect to drive a nice car and live in a nice house, and don't make being poor a way of life. There shouldn't be anything glamorous about living in the ghetto.

 

[Kernel Sanders]

Pell grant aside, you're living the way you were because of charity, but not because of welfare. You have the things you have because somebody chose to give them to you. That's quite a bit different from welfare families living off of welfare that the entire nation is obligated to pay into for them. I don't see anything wrong with living a bit better because you're accepting the help of people who want to help you.

Also, and I can only guess here, your situation is different because it has an expiration date. You're taking this help until you graduate, because the help is enabling you to become self sufficient. From your post I would guess that you would not be comfortable living off of your family if the situation looked permanent (or had no end in sight).

Your situation is a bit like welfare, but it's what welfare is supposed to be rather than what it is. You are temporarily relying on others with more resources than you so that you can become self sufficient and capable of contributing to the economy. The problem with welfare is that it is wide open to abuse and dependancy. If you were thirty and still living off of your parents, that would not be okay. Taking their help in getting a leg up is fine, and if welfare worked that way it would be fine as well.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Charity is people choosing to give you something.

Welfare is the government choosing to steal my money to give it to you.

 

[DarkWizard12]

Thing is, your living off a charity because a liberal wanted to cure the symptom, and not the cause. Tell me, would you have to be living off charity if college was cheaper?

 

[cascadian]

hmmm... well republicans can recognize the importance of certain social programs too. I think we all benefit from a well educated society both economically and socially. Pell grants and student loans enjoy fairly bipartisan support.

I would also argue we all benefit when everyone has some access to life sustaining resources and a little help making something of themselves. I don't think private charities could do it on their own. Basically, it's cheaper to feed someone out of prison than inside of one.

I am where I am today (a middle class tax payer giving back to the system) because of food stamps, free school lunches, public education, pell grants, and student loans.

 

[sazerac]

You're not a charity. You're an investment.

Be sure to get a good job after college and earn lots of money that we can tax.:mrgreen:

 

[Tucker Case]

I worked my way through College working full-time as a Carpenter.

I do not recommend that.

 

[American]

Most college students live off their parents.

 

[Truth Detector]

I hate to admit this, but there is NO WAY I could be doing this without charity. Yup. I said it. CHARITY. Someone gave me something for free. If I had to work 60 hour weeks living in a dimly lit apartment with no place to study, I would fail. Period. I'd be a ****ing dishwasher for life.

I disagree with this statement. My vocabulary does not include their word "can't." You believe that you can't get an education without this help because you want to.

I assure you that if you wanted to get an education and had no help, you CAN do it. I worked my way through college and graduated with honors.

It took twice as long and was NOT easy; but it was the BEST investment in myself I have ever made.

Never say that you CAN'T do something; but that you CHOOSE not to do something. It will help you throughout your life having that attitude.

Also, there is NOTHING wrong with accepting the goodwill and charity of others; if they didn't want to give, they wouldn't be doing it. The only obligation you have to them is to make their charity worth while by not squandering it.

As to your being a Democrat, I can only share this with you; we ALL want the same thing in our lives and those around us regardless of political persuasion. We want people to have good jobs, to be safe, and to have a house over there heads (there may be more but just go with this for the moment). The main difference I see between a Liberal philosophy and a Conservative one is that the Liberal believes that many cannot achieve this without the help of the Government; Conservatives believe that one can achieve this if Government stays out of the way.

This thread is not the thread to debate the merits of those philosophies, but I would venture to say that you will start out your life as a Democrat; then eventually, as you take on more responsibilities and possibly start a family, become more Conservative in your views with time.

I believe it may have been Winston Churchill who said that if you are young and are Republican, you have no heart, but if you’re are old and a Democrat, you have no brain.

Carry on and good luck! :2wave:

 

[UtahBill]

Most college students live off their parents.

Ours did, no grants or loans for them, but they did get a small amount in academic scholarships...

 

[FreeThinker]

Charity is people choosing to give you something.

Welfare is the government choosing to steal my money to give it to you.

hahaha! I never thought of it like that. I'm seriously laughing out loud at the moment.

 

[FreeThinker]

Thing is, your living off a charity because a liberal wanted to cure the symptom, and not the cause. Tell me, would you have to be living off charity if college was cheaper?

If I didn't need charity to get through college, I could just stay a college student my entire life and end up like those useless grad students: writing endless reports on research that never gets used and that no one needs. I don't intend to make a life out of being in school. Theory without application is my version of kryptonite.

 

[FreeThinker]

You're not a charity. You're an investment.

Be sure to get a good job after college and earn lots of money that we can tax.:mrgreen:

I'm going to be an engineer, with the personal goal of being a real life version of Rearden[sic] from Atlas Shrugged.

My worth won't be in what you can tax, but what I make that people can actually use.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

To take out a loan is not charity...

 

[FreeThinker]

To take out a loan is not charity...

Pell grants and any money your parents give you after 18 is, imo.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

Pell grants and any money your parents give you after 18 is, imo.

Pell grants are Federal, paid for by the tax payer. This by definition cannot be charity; Charity is the chosen, not the forced. Forced charity is a contradiction in terms.

And IMO money from your parents is not charity either, also why 18?

Whatever it is to receive money from those that created you, why does that change @ 18? The law? Because they have to provide for their children? IMO something is what it is, and identity has no expiration date.

Personally if my mother regarded the money she gave me during college as "charity" I would be insulted, nor would I regard providing a house, food or an education for my future family as charity, for these would be people who I value, and I would be exchanging value for value; no different than the expenses for garaging a car I valued.

You do what you can to support and protect dependents that you value, until they can support themselves. Else you must not value them... Only to a child who is a poor investment would such cash be charity.

 

[FreeThinker]

Pell grants are Federal, paid for by the tax payer. This by definition cannot be charity; Charity is the chosen, not the forced. Forced charity is a contradiction in terms.

So how would I go about justifying the tax on a working professional who didn't use Pell grants to get through school? It is not like they have a choice in paying it.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

So how would I go about justifying the tax on a working professional who didn't use Pell grants to get through school? It is not like they have a choice in paying it.

You've got me there, I got a C in tax and do not believe any of it can be logically justified.

 

[Kernel Sanders]

The grants are the closest to welfare of what you're receiving - the rest are charity. I'd label educational grants as investment on the part of the government, though. I'm sure you will pay far, far more in income tax when you have a decent job than the government is giving you through the pell grant.

 

[Oftencold]

Over the past couple weeks while struggling really, really hard in school, I came to the realization that the only reason I'm able to spend this amount of time studying and thinking is because of stuff people gave me.

The government gave me a pell grant, my mom helped with rent, and student loans paid the rest. Basically, I'm living off of charity and promises of what I'm going to do later in life.

What is the difference between me and someone on welfare? There are probably millions of middle class white people like me that get government money to go to college, and I'm willing to bet that a large number don't ever get a real job or pay back the money. Those tax dollars disappear into the same black hole as any other wasteful program.

I hate to admit this, but there is NO WAY I could be doing this without charity. Yup. I said it. CHARITY. Someone gave me something for free. If I had to work 60 hour weeks living in a dimly lit apartment with no place to study, I would fail. Period. I'd be a ****ing dishwasher for life.

I still think that if a person chooses to hurt other people, they should die/be in prison. But as far as extremely poor people on welfare are concerned, I don't hold them responsible if they can't make it out of the ghetto. I DO hold them responsible, though, if they have kids knowing the life that child will have.

If you're having sex without a condom and you don't have a job, you should burn in hell. If you just don't have a job, well, I'll at least pay to feed and clothe you until you die. Just don't expect to drive a nice car and live in a nice house, and don't make being poor a way of life. There shouldn't be anything glamorous about living in the ghetto.

Very impressive.

No you are not becoming a Democrat for several reasons:

1. You recognize that the money is being given you out of charity, not entitlement.
2. You wish to objectively justify the contributions given you by providing worth to society in the future.
3. You question the rightness of something that is beneficial to yourself.
4. You believe that choices and acts rightly have consequences.
5. Your true friends would beat you.

 

[Simon W. Moon]

So how would I go about justifying the tax on a working professional who didn't use Pell grants to get through school? It is not like they have a choice in paying it.

In theory, its akin to using federal tax money to pay for roads in other parts of the country. Even though a single tax payer may not directly benefit from the roads in other states, there are sizable indirect benefits - rising tides, all boats yada yada.

Educated citizens help our national defense, our civic life and generate more tax revenue. Pell grants are an investment as someone else pointed out

 

[MC.no.spin]

Republicans vote in favor of Pell Grants and funding education, too. Clinton made time limits for those on welfare. It's not a monopoly for either party. It's a good investment in the future for society. I think your viewpoint on it shows you are not someone trying to ride the system, just someone trying to arrive at their true destination and needing help to get there. Big difference in my book.

 

[FreeThinker]

Republicans vote in favor of Pell Grants and funding education, too. Clinton made time limits for those on welfare. It's not a monopoly for either party. It's a good investment in the future for society. I think your viewpoint on it shows you are not someone trying to ride the system, just someone trying to arrive at their true destination and needing help to get there. Big difference in my book.

Still, I can't help thinking how goddam angry I would be if I lived in a horrible place and the government decided to give me less money so some white teenager can be exempted from all my hardships to read and think and ponder.

The core of what is bothering me is this: I have lost my ability to dismiss homeless people and extremely poor people with the "get a job" mentality. Every insane homeless person I see, I begin to think if that would have been me if no one had decided to help me.

Why am I driving a car. Why do I have a computer. Why am I special. How can I possibly fire someone from any future business or turn them down for a job KNOWING I had special advantages in life that they did not have.

I know life is unfair, and that we are not all born equal - but I don't want to reinforce that fact by driving a luxury car past an unemployment line on a cold day, comfortable at winning a game in which my team got a head start.

 

[UtahBill]

Still, I can't help thinking how goddam angry I would be if I lived in a horrible place and the government decided to give me less money so some white teenager can be exempted from all my hardships to read and think and ponder.

The core of what is bothering me is this: I have lost my ability to dismiss homeless people and extremely poor people with the "get a job" mentality. Every insane homeless person I see, I begin to think if that would have been me if no one had decided to help me.

Why am I driving a car. Why do I have a computer. Why am I special. How can I possibly fire someone from any future business or turn them down for a job KNOWING I had special advantages in life that they did not have.

I know life is unfair, and that we are not all born equal - but I don't want to reinforce that fact by driving a luxury car past an unemployment line on a cold day, comfortable at winning a game in which my team got a head start.

I suspected at 16 that I would get no help from parents, by 17 I knew it. My only choice was to join the military and get some technical training. If not that, I would be drafted and sent to Vietnam. I got good training, and those schools opened a lot of doors for me later on.
Life is unfair, but that is the way it is. Attitude is everything. If you convince yourself you can climb out of poverty, you probably will. If you start giving up at age 14 or so, you probably won't.

 

[MC.no.spin]

Still, I can't help thinking how goddam angry I would be if I lived in a horrible place and the government decided to give me less money so some white teenager can be exempted from all my hardships to read and think and ponder.

The core of what is bothering me is this: I have lost my ability to dismiss homeless people and extremely poor people with the "get a job" mentality. Every insane homeless person I see, I begin to think if that would have been me if no one had decided to help me.

Why am I driving a car. Why do I have a computer. Why am I special. How can I possibly fire someone from any future business or turn them down for a job KNOWING I had special advantages in life that they did not have.

I know life is unfair, and that we are not all born equal - but I don't want to reinforce that fact by driving a luxury car past an unemployment line on a cold day, comfortable at winning a game in which my team got a head start.

Fair enough. Frankly, you do sound like a Democrat.

I would just point out that the party platform often takes these points and swings so far to the left that unions end up ruining companies (GM, Chrysler, Ford, etc.) and ultimately hurt the worker. Or capital gains taxes and corporate taxes push companies overseas, further reducing jobs. Or housing regulation gets so lax that the insane unemployed homeless person is given the keys to a duplex on the beach. Then there is the Democratic faction that wants reparations for slavery, etc. Basically, their legislation is often no cure for the problems you are describing. It can make the problem worse. Not always, but sometimes.

I think the current two party system is too polarized and encourages bad policy.