Almost one in three of Republicans say violence may be necessary to ‘save’ US

[Bullseye]

Thank you for quoting one of my favorite groups, and one of my favorite artists (David Crosby).

Actually, David, back in the day, got called-out on this lyric. His response?

"Even the Paranoid have enemies"

I think he speaks to this better than I!

As an aside, in another interview during the early nineties, after he got out of prison & rehab for his coke problem, he made the best comment on the sixties I've ever heard,

"Peace, Love, Dope! Well, we got two out of three right!"

I'm a huge Crosby fan. Of the four (CSNY), his voice and relevance has remained the highest. He is still doing fantastic stuff performing & recording! There's a YouTube video production of him & his kid performing his tune, "Deja Vu". He does a fantastic jazz inspired arrangement, that I think I might prefer to the original studio take on the Deja Vu album. He sings with the same force, power, and conviction, as his live tour de force doing "Triad" & "All Along the Lee Shore" on 1971's Four Way Street album. Amazing!

I'll try to find the new Deja Vu video for you, if I get a chance later!

And he's complained several times that the lyric has been taken out of context and used in ways he objected to. But it's still a cool song. "Every one holding signs . . .mostly saying 'hurray for my side'"

 

[bomberfox]

Lol, so someone calling them a name is reason to resort to violence? Hmmm, seems like they're kind of proving their point with that! And a third of Conservatives are sick of rising crimes so they're going to go out and commit crimes! Very interesting.

Yeahhh… its amazing the people that complained about liberals calling them stupid went out to prove us right.

 

[trixare4kids]

Quite honestly, without access to the polling data itself - we really don't know.

But, I do know this:

--

1] Trump is fostering insurrection and electoral over-through.

2] 91% of Republicans support Trump

--

I'll let you draw your own conclusions!

More recent polls do not show that 91% support Trump.

 

[Chomsky]

Once again, we agree.

And that should not be too unusual.

You provide your lean as "Libertarian". I once flirted with Libertarianism, turned my back on it, but still keep some of the principles. That's a lot of common ground, even if I no longer buy into Libertarianism - "hook, line, and sinker".

I find this alarming that so many - people feel the govt has become so destructive of the ends of protecting life and liberty that violence may be necessary to alter or abolish it. It should make people think about what govt is doing wrong, what many people are doing wrong in enabling govt tyranny. And then hopefully actually seek to address peoples greivances.

There's reasonable rationale here, with my agreeing to much of what you wrote, particularly in general terms.

Both parties ignoring what you laid-out, is what got us Trump. But, we also have to look at degree. Is our country at a point that our grievances are such, as to require violent insurrection? I say 'not'. The election was legit, their was no "steal".

What I am disappointed in, is that the Republicans had their internal 'revolution', while the Dems have not. Both parties were in need of an internal 'revolution', and I thought Bernie might be the guy to di it. It was not to be.

 

[Chomsky]

Save us from what? They and their election of Trump is what has been causing most of the problems.

'Save themselves' from their archaic xenophobic ideas being relegated to minority status forever!

That's what this is all about:

"A shrinking former majority, becoming an unpopular minority, and losing their control of the reigns of government & their influence on culture"

And, they're not going down without a fight!

 

[Napoleon]

And that should not be too unusual.

You provide your lean as "Libertarian". I once flirted with Libertarianism, turned my back on it, but still keep some of the principles. That's a lot of common ground, even if I no longer buy into Libertarianism - "hook, line, and sinker".



There's reasonable rationale here, with my agreeing to much of what you wrote, particularly in general terms.

Both parties ignoring what you laid-out, is what got us Trump. But, we also have to look at degree. Is our country at a point that our grievances are such, as to require violent insurrection? I say 'not'. The election was legit, their was no "steal".

What I am disappointed in, is that the Republicans had their internal 'revolution', while the Dems have not. Both parties were in need of an internal 'revolution', and I thought Bernie might be the guy to di it. It was not to be.

Revolutions require persuasive leaders and Bernie isn’t that. The extent of his arguments is the equavelent of your 10 year old saying Johnny's parents let him stay up until all hours watching rated R movies so why can’t I?! And the guy almost died of a heart attack at his own fundraiser. He’s not equipped for revolution. There’s an art of persuasion and influence that doesn’t exist among progressives.

 

[jonny5]

And that should not be too unusual.

You provide your lean as "Libertarian". I once flirted with Libertarianism, turned my back on it, but still keep some of the principles. That's a lot of common ground, even if I no longer buy into Libertarianism - "hook, line, and sinker".



There's reasonable rationale here, with my agreeing to much of what you wrote, particularly in general terms.

Both parties ignoring what you laid-out, is what got us Trump. But, we also have to look at degree. Is our country at a point that our grievances are such, as to require violent insurrection? I say 'not'. The election was legit, their was no "steal".

What I am disappointed in, is that the Republicans had their internal 'revolution', while the Dems have not. Both parties were in need of an internal 'revolution', and I thought Bernie might be the guy to di it. It was not to be.

The election was just the latest sting. It wasnt legit, but it may have been legit enough. But I think we passed the need for separation a long time ago, just I dont think it ever requires violent insurrection. Thats really up to the US govt. If they dont let states leave the union, then yes, that would require violence. But I dont think the US would use violence today to prevent an exit. Elections are the least of the greivances.

 

[Slartibartfast]

'Save themselves' from their archaic xenophobic ideas being relegated to minority status forever!

That's what this is all about:

"A shrinking former majority, becoming an unpopular minority, and losing their control of the reigns of government & their influence on culture"

And, they're not going down without a fight!

History is full of failed cultures. There is no reason to think their's won't just be another number in that statistic.

 

[Slartibartfast]

What Trump related problems are you referring to?

I will jump to the biggest one, which is making people think the election was stolen and that somehow violence is justifiable. That is basically just fomenting domestic terrorism.

 

[mrjurrs]

Almost one in three of Republicans say violence may be necessary to ‘save’ US

Troubling statistics show the post-election rancor that led to the US Capitol attack on 6 January is still very much in place

www.theguardian.com

--

Last week I posted an OP with a video showing a Trump supporter at a Big Lie type event, where the attendee asked the speaker if the time had come to, "Kill Democrats".

Quite a few Trump supporters entering that thread stated that the attendee did not represent common thinking among Trump supporters. Coincidently, many Trump supporters are also claiming the 1/6 event did not involve an attempt at 'insurrection', but rather it was a majority peaceful demonstration of sorts.

Now, we see this poll.

How can this poll, with 1/3rd of Republicans believing the time has come for violent revolution, be reconciled with the "peaceful" claims made in my earlier thread concerning Trump supporter violence?

According to Wikipedia, in 2020 Gallop found 25% of Americans identify as Republicans. The 2020 U.S. Census counts 258M adult Americans. A little arithmetic (25% x 30% x 258M) seems to show that around 20M Republicans believe they need to use violence to over-throw the government! 20M!

That's a far cry from the "several hundred" 1/6 "rioters" of the Trump supporter narrative.

Now to be fair, some of the polled Dems & Indies also believe the time for violence has come, though to far less a degree than the Republicans. But in substantive terms, Dems & Indies do not have a President and politicos fanning the flames of the Big Lie & the need to "over-throw" our elections.

--

Ordinarily, I would find a poll like this to be curious. But after 1/6, and with the constant Trump-GOP fanning of the flames, I bet some of us may find this alarming.

The American experiment is in greater danger now than at any previous point in my lifetime. There is cause to be worried.

 

[Chomsky]

The election was just the latest sting. It wasnt legit, but it may have been legit enough. But I think we passed the need for separation a long time ago, just I dont think it ever requires violent insurrection. Thats really up to the US govt. If they dont let states leave the union, then yes, that would require violence. But I dont think the US would use violence today to prevent an exit. Elections are the least of the greivances.

The bolded an interesting hypothesis.

I'd like to think you're right, but we've got to remember the 1st duty of the federal government is to protect its citizenry and their Constitutional rights. If a state tries to leave the union, they would be taking away their citizens' Constitutional rights. I'm not sure the U.S. government would allow that, even if the majority of the state's citizenry vote to secede, because the citizens that chose not to secede - being U.S. citizens - are still entitled to their Constitutional protections.

But it is an interesting idea, even if I find it un-patriotic & un-American.

 

[BlueTex]

The election was just the latest sting. It wasnt legit, but it may have been legit enough. But I think we passed the need for separation a long time ago, just I dont think it ever requires violent insurrection. Thats really up to the US govt. If they dont let states leave the union, then yes, that would require violence. But I dont think the US would use violence today to prevent an exit. Elections are the least of the greivances.

Despite fantasy's of some on the right, there will be no states leaving the union.

 

[Chomsky]

The American experiment is in greater danger now than at any previous point in my lifetime. There is cause to be worried.

I think I agree.

Though the sixties counter-culture revolutionaries gave the country a pretty good scare, Particularly the Weathermen & Malcom X'ers.

 

[Chomsky]

Despite fantasy's of some on the right, there will be no states leaving the union.

Yeah, I just don't see it either.

 

[Rexedgar]

The bolded an interesting hypothesis.

I'd like to think you're right, but we've got to remember the 1st duty of the federal government is to protect its citizenry and their Constitutional rights. If a state tries to leave the union, they would be taking away their citizens' Constitutional rights. I'm not sure the U.S. government would allow that, even if the majority of the state's citizenry vote to secede, because the citizens that chose not to secede - being U.S. citizens - are still entitled to their Constitutional protections.

But it is an interesting idea, even if I find it un-patriotic & un-American.

Back to Buffalo Springfield:

”….there’s battle lines being drawn……”

Where do you think the lines will be if it comes to that?

 

[Chomsky]

Back to Buffalo Springfield:

”….there’s battle lines being drawn……”

Where do you think the lines will be if it comes to that?

I don't know!

But, the festivities can't start until,

"I'm always afraid"

So, I guess we're not there yet!

[I'll try to find the new David Crosby video for you, too. But until then, I hope you enjoy this one below. I think it's fantastic! David would love it!]

 

[mrjurrs]

I think I agree.

Though the sixties counter-culture revolutionaries gave the country a pretty good scare, Particularly the Weathermen & Malcom X'ers.

Imo both of those groups caused local angst, not national hatred.

 

[vanceen]

Thank you for quoting one of my favorite groups, and one of my favorite artists (David Crosby).

Actually, David, back in the day, got called-out on this lyric. His response?

"Even the Paranoid have enemies"

I think he speaks to this better than I!

As an aside, in another interview during the early nineties, after he got out of prison & rehab for his coke problem, he made the best comment on the sixties I've ever heard,

"Peace, Love, Dope! Well, we got two out of three right!"

I'm a huge Crosby fan. Of the four (CSNY), his voice and relevance has remained the highest. He is still doing fantastic stuff performing & recording! There's a YouTube video production of him & his kid performing his tune, "Deja Vu". He does a fantastic jazz inspired arrangement, that I think I might prefer to the original studio take on the Deja Vu album. He sings with the same force, power, and conviction, as his live tour de force doing "Triad" & "All Along the Lee Shore" on 1971's Four Way Street album. Amazing!

I'll try to find the new Deja Vu video for you, if I get a chance later!

I'm pretty sure Steve Stills wrote that.

 

[RealityNow]

Taken at face value, these poll results are alarming.

However, it would be useful to know how the questions were worded, how the sample was chosen, how the responses were gathered, etc. It would also be useful to know how many Democrats or independents answered similarly to the same questions, assuming they were asked.

I've seen lots of polls that show alarming or even preposterous results on the face of it, things like "25% of Americans can't find the US on a map" (that's off the top of my head, but there are a lot of examples out there). Very often if you look at how the questions were asked and how the sample selected the results aren't so surprising any more.

Polls often don't go to many areas that may give them additional information, they do small sampling, (because polling is big profit makers, where they can profit from small samples).

• MOST people know that "violence is not the means to settle anything". We as a nation should have learned that from Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.
• People teach their kids that violence is not how they resolve differences or solve problems.
• PEOPLE DON'T WONT THEIR HOME ENVIROMMENT TORN UP WITH VIOLENCE, they want a system where Equity Meets the Cost of Living!! It's that plan and simple. When people can afford to live to the promoted concept of American Standard of Living, they are not interested then in attacking anyone.
• When it comes to Religion, people should respect the principles of "Freedom of Religion" as being for any and all.
• Conservatives often claim that they can do more for racial equality than Liberals, if that is true, then NEITHER should not have any thoughts about violence.

People should not have thoughts of wanting others to not do well, society works best when everyone wants everyone to do well.

It's not that complicated, and people should not let Politics continue to create one group that attacks anything the other promotes for progress and development, and addressing the needs of the future. Because the future will come, whether on is living or not.
Even with the historical divisiveness that racism caused... We collectively still built a great nation. NOW, Our Collective Goal should be to make it work for EVERYONE.

The mis information about National Debt should not be played in the ways it has been to create attacks, because our National Debt is a created by both (Republicans) Conservatives and (Democrats) Liberal, BECAUSE it is OUR Congress that has authorized every program that exist in this nation.

• If America was going to crash due to debt, that would have happen when our Debt exceeded our Yearly GDP

That has not happened, nor will it happen if our Debt Becomes $40-50 Trillion, Because we are an Ongoing Society. Ongoing Societies develop and the fact of Nations, they are always in the continual process of Developing and Re-Developing.

• We went through challenges when we moved into the Industrial Age, and
• we went through challenges when we went through the Mechanized Age, and
• We saw Challenges when we came into the Technical Age, and now
• we are moving into a society that is a Combination of Mechanized, Technical and Information Age, and we will Re-Industrialize with those combined elements because that is what makes the future.

We have a world of nation and societies that have more information and knowledge than any society ever to exist in our awareness of the world.

People simply need to settle down, and realize... We Are On Nation... and We Are All American Citizens, and no one can take that away from any of us.

We are not and will never again be the Segregated Society of Jim Crow Racial Divisiveness.

LET'S WORK TOGETHER BUILD THE FUTURE THAT BENEFITS AND SERVES ALL OF US.
Anyone can get in their car and drive around, look at people adapting and creating new things, new ways of doing things, because its happening all across this nation.
You go to the grocery store, they have "self check out", 'we've had Debt Cards for decades, we not have apps on a phone that can process paying without even touching anything, we have cars that drive themselves, everyone who wants one has a cell phone that can take picture, talk, send message and access movies, music, and anything else that one wants to access, and we can take it any place we go.

Accept The Future, because its already in process of continuing to unfold.

(no one can put the ink back in the pen, once its been applied to the paper) So, why be anguished trying to do so.​

 

[Tender Branson]

It will take a decade or more to undo all the damage that Trump and his silly, idiotic, violent presidency has inflicted on US society and the mental state of its people ...

 

[VanceMack]

But y'all are just NOW pissing yourself because republicans think violence may be in order at some point?

 

[Radical Red Radish]

The vast majority of Germans welcomed Hitler; after years of poverty resulting from draconian war reparations following WW1, rampant inflation and a failing economy his promises were eagerly lapped-up. Communism was welcomed by Russians as a relief from the appalling serfdom and mass-starvation they suffered under the absolute rule of the Czars. Communism ultimately failed to deliver, as did Nazism, but don't be fooled by the eagerness of desperate people looking for a way out when offered.

Lenin was a Communist, but Stalin and his successors weren't. Communism has historically been a cosmetic treatment to appeal to the masses who were looking for an alternative to bourgeois fascism, but the bourgeoisie have quickly hijacked it. This has been in part due to the fact that Communists have traditionally recieved inadequate strategic training compared to their bourgeois counterparts. Look how long Mao's limited Socialism reforms lasted, mostly because he required *some* of his people to study the classic strategy game Wei Chi. It has a popular v

 

[jonny5]

The bolded an interesting hypothesis.

I'd like to think you're right, but we've got to remember the 1st duty of the federal government is to protect its citizenry and their Constitutional rights. If a state tries to leave the union, they would be taking away their citizens' Constitutional rights. I'm not sure the U.S. government would allow that, even if the majority of the state's citizenry vote to secede, because the citizens that chose not to secede - being U.S. citizens - are still entitled to their Constitutional protections.

But it is an interesting idea, even if I find it un-patriotic & un-American.

Why would the US suddenly care about protecting constitutional rights? No, a state wouldnt be taking away constitutional rights. They would be giving them up in favor of a govt more to their liking. Liberty, consent of the governed, removing tyranny, is very American. Its in our very founding documents.

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them,"

 

[TomFitz]

I'm sure the rancor has nothing to do with democrats constantly blaming white Americans and conservatives for being racists, having white privelege, and calling them deplorables. Not to mention that conservatives are sick of he rising crime and making excuses such as it's not the criminals fault.

I’m equally sure that the rancor has a lot to do with the explosion of open bigotry and anti black racism that accompanied the election of a black President, and was fed on and amplified by his successor, a deplorable who knew that pandering to deplorables is a sure bet if you’re going to be the angry white man’s candidate.

If people don’t like being called deplorables, they shouldn’t play the part so convincingly.

 

[jpn]

Not to mention that conservatives are sick of the rising crime and making excuses such as it's not the criminals fault.

Crime is always rising in the minds of authoritarian conservatives.

Violent crime is falling - and other facts about crime in the United States

With much of President Trump's administration's focus on reducing crime rates in American communities, here are five facts about crime in the US.

www.weforum.org