All schools shut down in Augusta County, Virginia, over Islam homework

[ocean515]

You haven't cited anything of dispute. You just sent a bunch of links.

To have a conversation about the god Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship, you have to know about Judaism and Islam, not just Christianity. That is why studying religions is important. I can keep linking videos of rabbis and imams discussing the topic. There is a lot of interesting information.

Judaism and Islam is one god. Christianity is a trinity, involving the worship of Jesus.

If you know nothing of Judaism and Islam, a video like this makes no sense to you....

My links illustrate that the question of whether the three religions believe they worship to to the same one God is not a settled issue. There is nothing more to discuss.

It doesn't matter what I know, or you know. The fact that there are scores of scholars who argue they are the same, or they are different, is all the proof necessary to establish this as fact.

I appreciate your opinion, but that is all it is.

 

[ocean515]

There are thousands of denominations and sectarian schisms within Christianity alone. Islam and Judaism are also riven with differences in interpretation. All three revere the God of Abraham, and claim descent through one of Abraham's sons. They are all "People of the Book".

And yet scores of religious scholars can't seem to agree on whether the God worshiped in each religion is indeed the same. I would guess it's a complex issue, and as such, shows why the study of Comparative Religion in a public High School is not a good idea. Such a lesson plan is best left to an elective course in a college or university where more in depth review could take place.

 

[Manc Skipper]

One religious scholar likened it to a multicoloured lantern, you see different colours from different angles but the candle is the same one. Which makes sense since all three have Abraham's God in common.

 

[ocean515]

One religious scholar likened it to a multicoloured lantern, you see different colours from different angles but the candle is the same one. Which makes sense since all three have Abraham's God in common.

Unfortunately, not every believer is buying the same lantern as the one the scholar suggests.

 

[tosca1]

Hmmm so the Christian God has sent the messiah and Jewish God hasn't. Doesn't sound like same God to me

No. You're comprehension is askew. Read it again.

Maybe, it's your eyes? I'll large-font it for you to make it eye-friendly. And space them up. I'll even make it more clear for you.



Mull on it, and maybe it'll sink in.



No, with the Jews....it's the same God.


They (the JEWS), believe in the coming of a Messiah (as prophesied) -
(in the Old Testament).


Christians believe that, too. Christians saw in Jesus Christ the fulfillment of the prophecies about the Messiah.

To Christians, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah.


The only difference is that they,

(The JEWS), don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.





Oh dear....maybe seeing many sentences confuses you? Could that be it? This is a discussion board, it's hard to discuss with just one-liners. :shrug:




If you still can't understand that, no offense - but I think you're way out of your league debating here.

And, I'll have to ignore you.

 

[tosca1]

Originally Posted by Manc Skipper
One religious scholar likened it to a multicoloured lantern, you see different colours from different angles but the candle is the same one. Which makes sense since all three have Abraham's God in common.

Unfortunately.....somewhere early along the way, one group decided to throw the candle away.

So no, it's not about seeing from different angles. They don't have an angle from the candle since.....they don't have the candle.


The scholar is wrong.

 

[tosca1]

Yes you do have the same God. You simply don't believe the same information about that God.

So you'll say that you worship the same god as Jews but not as Muslims... :lol:

Jewish people do not worship Jesus, nor do Muslims. Jewish people do not believe in human or blood sacrifice, but the Christians believe that in the crucifixion of Jesus.

Also, that is a myth about Isaac and Abraham's son, and that was also addressed later in the bible by one of the apostles. The promise of Jesus was given to the gentiles which included Isaac. As explained earlier, the apostles did not convert the Arab world so God sent a prophet after Jesus.

You, too?


Refer to my response to Winston. #280.

Yes you do have the same God. You simply don't believe the same information about that God.

Mull on this:


If they don't think the Bible is saying the truth......that means, they don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.

If they think the Bible is without credibility - how can they even believe anything in it (including the story of Abraham)?



They can scream they're an abrahamic religion all they want - but it's not the Abraham from the Torah or The Old Testament!
They must be talking about another guy named Abraham. :lamo


They're confused, to say the least! And you're going along with that - swallowing it hook, line and sinker - which means, you're just as confused as them! :mrgreen: It shows!



There's no logic to their claim! That goes to you, too.

 

[tosca1]

You do not understand the video, because you only understand modern Christian thinking... :lol:

Before the covenant of Abraham, God existed. Before and after making a covenant with Abraham and the Jewish people, there were other monotheists. They were and are the Muslims.

No, you didn't get the message in the video. Whoooo boy. :lol:
Let's try to simplify it, okay?



When did Islam start, do you know? I bet not.



Despite concerns about reliability of early sources, most historians believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the
7th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam




Compare that with Judaism:

Although Judaism as a religion first appears in Greek records during the Hellenistic period and the earliest mention of Israel is inscribed on the Merneptah Stele dated 1213–1203 BCE, religious literature tells the story of Israelites going back at least as far as c. 1500 BCE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history



Do you even know what a Muslim is? I bet not.

Now, here's the tricky part:



A Muslim or Moslem is a person who follows the religion of Islam!

How can there be Muslims way, way, way ahead of the founding of Islam?

DUH?




That's why the guy in the video is talking about the ISLAMIZATION of HISTORY!

The Muslims are deluded into thinking every prophet in the Scriptures, every high profile person in the Old testament was a Muslim!
That's nothing but, propaganda!

 

[ocean515]

No, you didn't get the message in the video. Whoooo boy. :lol:
Let's try to simplify it, okay?



When did Islam start, do you know? I bet not.



Despite concerns about reliability of early sources, most historians believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the
7th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam




Compare that with Judaism:

Although Judaism as a religion first appears in Greek records during the Hellenistic period and the earliest mention of Israel is inscribed on the Merneptah Stele dated 1213–1203 BCE, religious literature tells the story of Israelites going back at least as far as c. 1500 BCE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history



Do you even know what a Muslim is? I bet not.

Now, here's the tricky part:



A Muslim or Moslem is a person who follows the religion of Islam!

How can there be Muslims way, way, way ahead of the founding of Islam?

DUH?




That's why the guy in the video is talking about the ISLAMIZATION of HISTORY!

The Muslims are deluded into thinking every prophet in the Scriptures, every high profile person in the Old testament was a Muslim!
That's nothing but, propaganda!

And so, as you have demonstrated, there are many facets and angles to religions that are not settled, and remain in debate. As a result of this fact, what is a public high school doing teaching Comparative Religion?

Personally, I think the reason is rather clear.

 

[SheWolf]

My links illustrate that the question of whether the three religions believe they worship to to the same one God is not a settled issue. There is nothing more to discuss.

It doesn't matter what I know, or you know. The fact that there are scores of scholars who argue they are the same, or they are different, is all the proof necessary to establish this as fact.

I appreciate your opinion, but that is all it is.

Again, you listed a bunch of links. You said nothing specific. You did not name specific scholars. Who are the scholars, and what are their specific arguments?

I am suspicious that it comes down to your opinion and discomfort in saying it's the same god, and you being lazy. Instead making the arguments yourself, you are being vague and listing links and links.

This is a matter of discussion more than debate and this topic should be discussed, not treated in a lazy manner. When people realize the similarities in the faiths, they should realize it's not worth killing or hating each other over. This type of history has repeated itself far too many times.

 

[SheWolf]

No. You're comprehension is askew. Read it again.

Maybe, it's your eyes? I'll large-font it for you to make it eye-friendly. And space them up. I'll even make it more clear for you.



Mull on it, and maybe it'll sink in.



No, with the Jews....it's the same God.


They (the JEWS), believe in the coming of a Messiah (as prophesied) -
(in the Old Testament).


Christians believe that, too. Christians saw in Jesus Christ the fulfillment of the prophecies about the Messiah.

To Christians, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah.


The only difference is that they,

(The JEWS), don't believe Jesus is the Messiah.





Oh dear....maybe seeing many sentences confuses you? Could that be it? This is a discussion board, it's hard to discuss with just one-liners. :shrug:




If you still can't understand that, no offense - but I think you're way out of your league debating here.

And, I'll have to ignore you.

Do you know why Jesus did not meet the qualifications as the Messiah? Muslims recognize the same qualifications as lacking in Jesus... :lol: ... but you want to say Jews worship the same God as you, but not the Muslims.

You look very ignorant about Islam.

 

[ocean515]

Again, you listed a bunch of links. You said nothing specific. You did not name specific scholars. Who are the scholars, and what are their specific arguments?

I am suspicious that it comes down to your opinion and discomfort in saying it's the same god, and you being lazy. Instead making the arguments yourself, you are being vague and listing links and links.

This is a matter of discussion more than debate and this topic should be discussed, not treated in a lazy manner. When people realize the similarities in the faiths, they should realize it's not worth killing or hating each other over. This type of history has repeated itself far too many times.

I made it very clear in my first post I am not an expert on religion. I also made it very clear in my first post I turned to other sources to enlighten me on the subject. What I have learned, I have posted. It's curious that you would claim that demonstrates laziness.

It seems to me you reveal your objective in your last sentence. Rather than accept the issue is not settled, you admit you have a wish that people would realize the similarities, rather than the differences. While I don't disagree, that doesn't change the facts.

I would suggest you avoid the name calling and false claims when your personal objectives are not being supported by the facts.

 

[tosca1]

Do you know why Jesus did not meet the qualifications as the Messiah? Muslims recognize the same qualifications as lacking in Jesus... :lol: ... but you want to say Jews worship the same God as you, but not the Muslims.

You look very ignorant about Islam.

Qualifications in meeting the requirements for a Messiah is irrelevant in our discussion! :lol:


Besides, you don't even know what a Muslim is.....and here you are lecturing about the qualifications of the Messiah?


Of course to you I'd look ignorant about Islam - because you won't know what I'm on about!
I could visualize a blank stare from you as you read my posts! You know diddly squat about Islam!


What more evidence do we need when you say Muslims had existed way, way, waaaaaaay before there was Islam!

 

[SheWolf]

You, too?


Refer to my response to Winston. #280.







Mull on this:


If they don't think the Bible is saying the truth......that means, they don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.

If they think the Bible is without credibility - how can they even believe anything in it (including the story of Abraham)?



They can scream they're an abrahamic religion all they want - but it's not the Abraham from the Torah or The Old Testament!
They must be talking about another guy named Abraham. :lamo


They're confused, to say the least! And you're going along with that - swallowing it hook, line and sinker - which means, you're just as confused as them! :mrgreen: It shows!



There's no logic to their claim! That goes to you, too.

:lol:

The story of Abraham is from the Jewish Torah, which is older than the Bible. As I said before, Muslims accept Jesus but do not worship Jesus.

There are Christians who read and study the bible, and conclude that Jesus is not God. Scholars have studied the time and social structure of Jesus, and concluded his followers did not worship him as god. The earliest Christians did not confuse Jesus with God. What likely happened was the story of Jesus was adapted into Roman/Greek foundational understanding of gods (Roman culture being the most widespread, exported, and prolific at that time). They worshipped powerful gods in numbers of threes, or triple gods and goddess. They created the concept of the trinity involving Jesus as a god in the concept of three.

Jesus did not teach the trinity. God has only declared he is one... not one-in-three... three-in-one. Only the Christians think God is three-in-one. The bible does not teach the doctrine of the trinity.

The trinity and concept of God as three became popularized nearly 400 years after the death of Jesus, by a Carthaginian lawyer and writer named Tertullia.

From that time onward, Christians have worked the bible backwards to argue Jesus is God and God is three-in-one.

Your version of "the truth" and "Jesus is God" is not entirely biblical.

 

[SheWolf]

No, you didn't get the message in the video. Whoooo boy. :lol:
Let's try to simplify it, okay?



When did Islam start, do you know? I bet not.



Despite concerns about reliability of early sources, most historians believe that Islam originated in Mecca and Medina at the start of the
7th century.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Islam




Compare that with Judaism:

Although Judaism as a religion first appears in Greek records during the Hellenistic period and the earliest mention of Israel is inscribed on the Merneptah Stele dated 1213–1203 BCE, religious literature tells the story of Israelites going back at least as far as c. 1500 BCE.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_history



Do you even know what a Muslim is? I bet not.

Now, here's the tricky part:



A Muslim or Moslem is a person who follows the religion of Islam!

How can there be Muslims way, way, way ahead of the founding of Islam?

DUH?




That's why the guy in the video is talking about the ISLAMIZATION of HISTORY!

The Muslims are deluded into thinking every prophet in the Scriptures, every high profile person in the Old testament was a Muslim!
That's nothing but, propaganda!

Muslims are monotheists, worshippers and believers in the same God as the Jews. Muslims do not worship Jesus. Muslims believe in one god, not a God that is three-in-one.

Do you grasp the covenant of God and Abraham with the Jewish people? That did not happened when the universe was created. It happened later, and yet that one true God existed before choosing Abraham and his decedents. The non Jewish followers and believers were Muslims. It is logical that they were Muslims. It's the same God.

 

[tosca1]

:lol:

The story of Abraham is from the Jewish Torah, which is older than the Bible.

And? What are you saying?

Careful Shewolf, you're heading for another landmine. :mrgreen:

There are Christians who read and study the bible, and conclude that Jesus is not God.

There are so many Christian sects, too!

As I said before, Muslims accept Jesus but do not worship Jesus. Etc....,

Blah-blah-blah.....


The only fact you've given us is to show us that you don't know much about Islam and Muslims!
You don't even know what a Muslim is. :lol:



You're in no position to debate, let alone lecture about this. :shrug:

 

[tosca1]

Muslims are monotheists, worshippers and believers in the same God as the Jews. Muslims do not worship Jesus. Muslims believe in one god, not a God that is three-in-one.

Do you grasp the covenant of God and Abraham with the Jewish people? That did not happened when the universe was created. It happened later, and yet that one true God existed before choosing Abraham and his decedents. The non Jewish followers and believers were Muslims. It is logical that they were Muslims. It's the same God.

Read this and weep:


There were no Muslims before Islam.

 

[SheWolf]

Qualifications in meeting the requirements for a Messiah is irrelevant in our discussion! :lol:


Besides, you don't even know what a Muslim is.....and here you are lecturing about the qualifications of the Messiah?


Of course to you I'd look ignorant about Islam - because you won't know what I'm on about!
I could visualize a blank stare from you as you read my posts! You know diddly squat about Islam!


What more evidence do we need when you say Muslims had existed way, way, waaaaaaay before there was Islam!

Why do you assume and accuse me of knowing nothing about Islam? That is rather naive and assumptive of you...

I should know a lot more about Islam and Muslim theology than you, because where I go to pray and worship God is at a mosque.

I may not be best informed person on the subject, I may not go to a mosque every Friday, I may not pray daily, and I may not be very devout, but I am learning and I ought to know more than you.

The one true God existed before the Muslims and Christians, and before the covenant with Abraham and the Jewish faith. I am not confused about the timeframe of Islam or the other faiths. God is older than Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. What I am saying is that the non Jewish worshippers of the true God were worshipping the same God as the modern day Muslims. Christians worship Jesus.

 

[tosca1]

Why do you assume and accuse me of knowing nothing about Islam? That is rather naive and assumptive of you...

I should know a lot more about Islam and Muslim theology than you, because where I go to pray and worship God is at a mosque.

I may not be best informed person on the subject, I may not go to a mosque every Friday, I may not pray daily, and I may not be very devout, but I am learning and I ought to know more than you.

The one true God existed before the Muslims and Christians, and before the covenant with Abraham and the Jewish faith. I am not confused about the timeframe of Islam or the other faiths. God is older than Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. What I am saying is that the non Jewish worshippers of the true God were worshipping the same God as the modern day Muslims. Christians worship Jesus.

Nice try, Shewolf.


But, someone who doesn't know what a Muslim is.....doesn't know anything about Muslims. That's not an assumption.

That's plain logic.


:2wave:

 

[SheWolf]

Read this and weep:


There were no Muslims before Islam.

There was God before he called all prophets to show his children the path to him.

 

[SheWolf]

Nice try, Shewolf.


But, someone who doesn't know what a Muslim is.....doesn't know anything about Muslims. That's not an assumption.

That's plain logic.


:2wave:

So you just resort to calling me a liar...

 

[tosca1]

There was God before he called all prophets to show his children the path to him.

........but there were no Muslims before Islam.

 

[tosca1]

So you just resort to calling me a liar...

No. I don't think you're lying. I think you actually believe what you're saying. I'm saying you're ignorant.


You latched onto a video (I assume it was the misleading title that got you - "Scholar Says, All Prophets Were Muslims").....and you tried to build your argument from that misleading title. But you're arguing about something you hardly know anything about.


Furthermore, you didn't understand what the video was actually saying - The ISLAMIZATION of HISTORY!


The evidence is the fact that you think Muslims existed way, way before Islam was founded!
That's like saying there were such people called Americans (as we know them) way, way, way before America was discovered. :mrgreen:

Dead give away.

 

[blarg]

Read this and weep:


There were no Muslims before Islam.

dont know if any one referred to themselves as such but

Muslim" is an Arabic word meaning "one who submits (to God

so yes Jews and Christians and early characters from the bible who followed its god weer in a sense Muslims

maybe you would consider yourself Muslim by that definition

now naturally Islamic Muslims did not predate Islam

 

[roguenuke]

You, too?


Refer to my response to Winston. #280.







Mull on this:


If they don't think the Bible is saying the truth......that means, they don't believe the Bible is the Word of God.

If they think the Bible is without credibility - how can they even believe anything in it (including the story of Abraham)?



They can scream they're an abrahamic religion all they want - but it's not the Abraham from the Torah or The Old Testament!
They must be talking about another guy named Abraham. :lamo


They're confused, to say the least! And you're going along with that - swallowing it hook, line and sinker - which means, you're just as confused as them! :mrgreen: It shows!



There's no logic to their claim! That goes to you, too.

This makes no sense. They believe in the Abraham of the OT. They are known as "an Abrahamic religion". These are facts. Whether they believe Abraham was always telling the truth or not (not sure where this is from) is irrelevant to whether they believe in the same God as Abraham. They don't have to believe in the NT to believe in the same God. And I know they believe in much of the OT stories, at least to a similar extent as Jews and Christians do. It is one reason Muslims persecute gays.