Again, how did it come to this?

[Perotista]

Sorry but this is not a BOTH SIDES issue.
Weapons grade propaganda, much of it straight from the Kremlin, much of it from ALEC, and the rest from the Covid Disinfo Dirty Dozen is behind this.
And every last one of these groups are fans of extremist right wing fascism and are hostile to secular democracy to the point where they are all itching to go to war.
Billions of dollars have been invested in TRAINING stupid people to believe bullshit.
Those investors expect to get results for their money, and they are.
And the funeral business is booming because of it.
And by the way, the lefty anti-vaxxers (descendants of the so called "wellness" industry - hand in hand with the Jenny McCarthy autism weirdos) is DWARFED by comparison.

Even YOU cannot retain credibility by studiously straddling the fence on this.

The problem is very few people believe or trust their own government, very few trust the MSM to report the news fairly, fully and accurately

Americans Remain Distrustful of Mass Media

A steady 40% of Americans say they have "a great deal" or "a fair amount" of trust in the mass media when it comes to reporting the news fully, accurately and fairly.

news.gallup.com

. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/05/17/public-trust-in-government-1958-2021/

Those let you know where the people stand on both the media and trust in government. Whether you like it or not, trust can play a huge part in believing what is told to you by either the media and or government. If you don't believe or have little trust in what they telling you is the truth, chances are you're not going to do what they say when it comes to government or believe what is reported in the news. This is a hole dug by both government officials, since Vietnam and Watergate, we actually expect our politicians and elected leaders to lie to us. We take that for granted. The media, they've take sides in our political battles. They're nothing more than propaganda wings for the two major parties.

As for vaccines, I do think it stupid for those not getting them. Would I make it mandatory, no. Polio vaccines weren't mandatory. I also think getting the vaccine should be political. But somehow, everything that happens these days become political. That too I think stupid. It's like everyone has lost their common sense when it comes to politics. Vaccines shouldn't be political.

But I look through different lens when it comes to politics, not red, not blue. Most issues are irrelevant to me. What I want to see is cooperation and compromise like in the infrastructure bill. In today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide and the super, mega, ultra partisanship, that is impossible or so it seems. It's like being an R or a D has replaced being an American in importance.

 

[EagleFreedom47]

It all started with HW Bush who brought in the NWO. Mentioned the NWO in his State of Union speech. Then came the former presidents. Who also were NWO members. From then on as years progressed. NWO members infiltrated all two hundred thirty five government departments. All department heads are NWO. In the last ten years, news media CEO'S are NWO. Also members of both political parties in congress and senate are NWO. Agenda One World Government, One World Bank. And the people of the world are pawns and controlled in every aspect of the lives. A small group of trillionaires and billionaires control the entire world. We are one step from the NWO to complete their AGENDA.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Where did this start? Was it Joe Mc Carthy in the 1950s? Was it the 1960s when we on the left called cops pigs? Was it the lies fed us about Vietnam? Was it Nixon's enemies list? Was it Reagan's unabashed support of right-wing terror? Was it Gingrich's bomb-throwing and suggestion of name calling? How did we go from a country that was arguably (but merely) anti-intellectual to one where republicans who scorn Trump fear Trump, afraid to say what they know to be true, that Biden is a legitimately elected prez.? How did we go from a country that rejoiced in the Salk vaccine to one that made our current disease political and its prevention controversial? Where Tucker Carlson, one of the most popular figures on cable TV, travels to Hungary, presumably to praise an anti-gay neo-fascist for "making the trains run in time" (as Mussolini's defenders used to say) and still keeps his job?

There is no joy in the story below of this unfortunate man's idiocy or ultimate fate. Only sorrow that it has come to this.

Texas GOP Official Mocked COVID Five Days Before He Died of Virus

H. Scott Apley’s Facebook page was filled with anti-mask, anti-vaccine content until he was suddenly hospitalized on Sunday.

www.thedailybeast.com

Another winner of the Herman Cain Freedom Award.

 

[Nickyjo]

Headlines above the fold in the SF paper today are "Ferocious hurricane pummels Louisiana," and "South Tahoe braces as fire nears." That something like acceptance of the science of climate change -- and whether or not to get vaccinated -- have become partisan issues shows what a mess we have made of politics. This is not completely new: the democratic mayor of Denver suggested in the 1970s that the city's infamous winter black cloud "might have blown in from Seattle," so reluctant was he to agree with liberals in his party that autos and industry were it cause.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

The problem is very few people believe or trust their own government, very few trust the MSM to report the news fairly, fully and accurately

Americans Remain Distrustful of Mass Media

A steady 40% of Americans say they have "a great deal" or "a fair amount" of trust in the mass media when it comes to reporting the news fully, accurately and fairly.

news.gallup.com

. https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/05/17/public-trust-in-government-1958-2021/

Those let you know where the people stand on both the media and trust in government. Whether you like it or not, trust can play a huge part in believing what is told to you by either the media and or government. If you don't believe or have little trust in what they telling you is the truth, chances are you're not going to do what they say when it comes to government or believe what is reported in the news. This is a hole dug by both government officials, since Vietnam and Watergate, we actually expect our politicians and elected leaders to lie to us. We take that for granted. The media, they've take sides in our political battles. They're nothing more than propaganda wings for the two major parties.

As for vaccines, I do think it stupid for those not getting them. Would I make it mandatory, no. Polio vaccines weren't mandatory. I also think getting the vaccine should be political. But somehow, everything that happens these days become political. That too I think stupid. It's like everyone has lost their common sense when it comes to politics. Vaccines shouldn't be political.

But I look through different lens when it comes to politics, not red, not blue. Most issues are irrelevant to me. What I want to see is cooperation and compromise like in the infrastructure bill. In today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide and the super, mega, ultra partisanship, that is impossible or so it seems. It's like being an R or a D has replaced being an American in importance.

Most issues are relevant to most people on some level, so I'm sorry but I'm not buying the "I am above it all" posture, not one bit.
I'd believe you if you claimed you don't have much skin in the game on a lot of things but I guarantee there's an ox or two in your yard that have yet to be gored.
All of this is affecting your quality of life even if you refuse to believe it.
If you have kids, even kids you're apathetic about (not saying that's your position, mind you) it's going to affect you.
That's the main reason I even got involved in politics to the level I did. I used to be relatively uninvolved until I became an instant husband and Daddy.

You wouldn't make it mandatory? That's the problem in a nutshell. Polio vaccines weren't mandatory? Really...news to me because I sure as shit remember household quarantines being mandatory for two families right in my own hometown neighborhood in Bethesda, Maryland. You wouldn't make COVID vaccination mandatory?
Tell me, at what point WOULD you change that position? How about when a variant emerges that can kill almost a million persons a day?
Is there any kind of a number capable of knocking you off that libertarian perch or are you 100% nonchalant about life turning into the equivalent of a zombie apocalypse?
To quote @tacomancer, the Herman Cain Freedom Award winners are becoming so numerous we're almost losing count.

I'm also not buying your assertion that this is partisan either.
The Republican Party is now a promoter of domestic terrorism, plain and simple.
It is a cult of personality.
I don't say that as a Democrat, I say it as a person, because even the most apathetic human being on the planet can tell there's something bizarre taking place here.
And as the youngest son of two European immigrant refugees of WW2 fascism, I see a distinct pattern that should frighten the bejeezus out of anyone who has the ability to recognize historical patterns.

Above it all my rosy red butt.

 

[Nickyjo]

It all started with HW Bush who brought in the NWO. Mentioned the NWO in his State of Union speech. Then came the former presidents. Who also were NWO members. From then on as years progressed. NWO members infiltrated all two hundred thirty five government departments. All department heads are NWO. In the last ten years, news media CEO'S are NWO. Also members of both political parties in congress and senate are NWO. Agenda One World Government, One World Bank. And the people of the world are pawns and controlled in every aspect of the lives. A small group of trillionaires and billionaires control the entire world. We are one step from the NWO to complete their AGENDA.

Others think it's the Illuminati who pull the strings. Or the Masons. But might be simpler than that. Perhaps with the end of the Soviet empire, it made sense to speak of a new world order. The US no longer had to support tyranny in Latin America. True, new crises occurred in the Middle East and elsewhere, with new short-sighted policies, the results of which we saw this past week. But your paranoia is showing. And how did you survive being taken over by the NWO-crats? How do we know your despairing post wasn't written to cause us all to surrender, given that we are all pawns.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

It all started with HW Bush who brought in the NWO. Mentioned the NWO in his State of Union speech. Then came the former presidents. Who also were NWO members. From then on as years progressed. NWO members infiltrated all two hundred thirty five government departments. All department heads are NWO. In the last ten years, news media CEO'S are NWO. Also members of both political parties in congress and senate are NWO. Agenda One World Government, One World Bank. And the people of the world are pawns and controlled in every aspect of the lives. A small group of trillionaires and billionaires control the entire world. We are one step from the NWO to complete their AGENDA.

You sure it's not just "the Jews?"
Also, the water is turning the frogs gay.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Well it just depends on the issue.
Sure bring up covid and the right wing goes daft.
But then take firearms and the left thinks a mass shooter intent on shooting up a school is going to be deterred by a " gun free zone".
Or bring up healthcare and the left thinks that we can reduce healthcare spending by a third but have no consequences to the quality of care.
So both sides are complicit.

The spending that needs to be reduced is clearly defined, and that's another thread altogether.
If I sell you horse deworming pills, do those pills work better when you pay twice as much and half of that goes to the salary of some CEO?
That ^^^ IS a massive oversimplification because I want to move on...

I'm a libtard gun owner. We exist. There's way more of us than you apparently realize.

 

[jaeger19]

The spending that needs to be reduced is clearly defined, and that's another thread altogether.
If I sell you horse deworming pills, do those pills work better when you pay twice as much and half of that goes to the salary of some CEO?
That ^^^ IS a massive oversimplification because I want to move on...

I'm a libtard gun owner. We exist. There's way more of us than you apparently realize.

Yeah.. I never said you were a "libtard". And I know there are a lot of democrats that are gun owners. as well as independents.

However,.. you cannot get around the fact that the far left demonizes firearms and thinks that mass shooters are going to be stopped by a "gun free zone " sign.
You cannot get around the fact that No.. the spending that needs to be reduced is NOT clearly defined. Its "we need to spend less on healthcare like...(insert country name here)..
Without any thought to WHY things cost what they do.

For example.. the reason you may pay twice as much for those horse deworming pills.. is because you insurance will pay that much for them.. on the schedule they negotiated with your vet.. while meanwhile on another medication.. you are paying far less than others are.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yeah.. I never said you were a "libtard". And I know there are a lot of democrats that are gun owners. as well as independents.

However,.. you cannot get around the fact that the far left demonizes firearms and thinks that mass shooters are going to be stopped by a "gun free zone " sign.
You cannot get around the fact that No.. the spending that needs to be reduced is NOT clearly defined. Its "we need to spend less on healthcare like...(insert country name here)..
Without any thought to WHY things cost what they do.

For example.. the reason you may pay twice as much for those horse deworming pills.. is because you insurance will pay that much for them.. on the schedule they negotiated with your vet.. while meanwhile on another medication.. you are paying far less than others are.

One more question.
How big do you actually think "THE FAR LEFT" really is?
I think it's a distinct and very vocal MINORITY.
Extremes are extremes...because they are extreme.

Life is nothing like what you see on Twitter and the overwhelming majority of Americans are mainstream, not EX-treme.
And that includes Democrats, most of which are...again....mainstream.
Perspective.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Where did this start? Was it Joe Mc Carthy in the 1950s? Was it the 1960s when we on the left called cops pigs? Was it the lies fed us about Vietnam? Was it Nixon's enemies list? Was it Reagan's unabashed support of right-wing terror? Was it Gingrich's bomb-throwing and suggestion of name calling? How did we go from a country that was arguably (but merely) anti-intellectual to one where republicans who scorn Trump fear Trump, afraid to say what they know to be true, that Biden is a legitimately elected prez.? How did we go from a country that rejoiced in the Salk vaccine to one that made our current disease political and its prevention controversial? Where Tucker Carlson, one of the most popular figures on cable TV, travels to Hungary, presumably to praise an anti-gay neo-fascist for "making the trains run in time" (as Mussolini's defenders used to say) and still keeps his job?

There is no joy in the story below of this unfortunate man's idiocy or ultimate fate. Only sorrow that it has come to this.

Texas GOP Official Mocked COVID Five Days Before He Died of Virus

H. Scott Apley’s Facebook page was filled with anti-mask, anti-vaccine content until he was suddenly hospitalized on Sunday.

www.thedailybeast.com

Off the top of my head, three to ponder.

"Government isn't a solution to our problems, government IS the problem!" (Reagan)

"I think I am a transformational figure. I think I am trying to effect a change so large that the people who would be hurt by the change, the liberal machine, have a natural reaction...I think because I'm so systematically purposeful about changing our world...I'm a much tougher partisan that they've [the Democrats] seen...much more intense, much more persistent, much more willing to take risks to get it done." (Gingrich)

“All Citizens United did was to level the playing field for corporate speech. We now have, I think, the most free and open system we've had in modern times.” (McConnell)

 

[Perotista]

Most issues are relevant to most people on some level, so I'm sorry but I'm not buying the "I am above it all" posture, not one bit.

Above it all my rosy red butt.

Two Issues, I'm pro-second amendment, not surprising being a farm boy and pro-choice. But I've voted for candidate that were anti-2nd amendment and pro-life. I vote the person, if I like the person and think the person would make a good whatever office that person is running for. I vote for that person. If I think both major party candidates would suck, I vote third party against both. I'm not above the fray, my goal in life is to make the fray go away. What I want to see is a Democratic congress work with a Republican president like they did with IKE or Republicans in congress work with a Democratic president like they did with JFK. IKE had LBJ, then democratic majority leader over to the white house once a week to discuss how to get IKE's agenda through congress. JFK and LBJ talked and coordinated with Republican minority leader Everett Dirksen a lot, although not every week. More recent, Reagan and Tip O'Neal work together very closely. Here's an article by Chris Matthews.

Reagan and O’Neill: A political friendship worth recalling

Reagan and O’Neill: A political friendship worth recalling

www.ajc.com

My goal, what I'm working for is the destruction of today's modern political era of polarization, the great divide, the super, mega, ultra, high-partisanship. Which you seem to embrace. Perhaps that is the Perot in me. Then again, it may be the IKE, JFK, LBJ, Dirksen, Reagan and O'Neal in me also. If I had my way I'd toss both major parties out the window onto the trash heap of history. Both disgust me to the max with both parties putting their party first and foremost over the country.

I love making election predictions and to see how America as a whole views different things, issues, events. How one or the other party usually works against America as a whole. That both parties think America is only made up of their base and not the other party's base or independents. I think both parties if they had a mind too, could work together for the betterment of America. They done it in the past. Not just for the betterment of their own party. Perhaps I'm too old, too fond of the past. Now most Americans want compromise as a way to get things done in congress, government, Washington.. But you are one of those my way or the highway types. That's fine, but I'm working against you and the same type on the other side. I suppose that makes me a pariah to both major parties. That's fine with me.

Americans Favor Compromise to Get Things Done in Washington

Fewer than one in five Americans say political leaders in Washington should stick to their beliefs even if little gets done, while 54% favor compromise.

news.gallup.com

If Gallup has party affiliation correct, Democrats make up 33% of the electorate, they want to give the other 67% of America the finger. Republicans make up 29%, the GOP wants to give the other 71% the finger. Both want to use the power of government to force their political ideology, agenda on the rest of us. That too, I'm fighting. That's why I love divided government. I want some checks on both parties, with the president now all powerful in a lot of instances, with congress members of the same party of the president in power working and acting more like they're part of the administration instead of a member of congress. We're in very sad shape.

 

[gino]

How big do you actually think "THE FAR LEFT" really is?
I think it's a distinct and very vocal MINORITY.
Extremes are extremes...because they are extreme.

Life is nothing like what you see on Twitter and the overwhelming majority of Americans are mainstream, not EX-treme.
And that includes Democrats, most of which are...again....mainstream.
Perspective.

Fortunately, I think you are correct. Unfortunately, dividing us is what the MSM and both political parties are doing on purpose. Truth is, the average dem and average repub want the same things, we might disagree on how to get them, but we aren't that far apart.

 

[Cynical]

I also find it interesting that when government was doing little for the people as far as welfare programs, medicare and the like, Only social security as a government programs during IKE and JFK, trust in government was in the 70's. It seems the more government does for us, the more programs for us, the more we expect government to take care of us, the less trust we have in our own government. Is there a connection, I don't know.

Back in the 1930's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, I think we were more cohesive as a country culturally and in regards to values.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Fortunately, I think you are correct. Unfortunately, dividing us is what the MSM and both political parties are doing on purpose. Truth is, the average dem and average repub want the same things, we might disagree on how to get them, but we aren't that far apart.

It's time to stop lumping all MSM into the same bucket...please.
Yes, they're all in business to make a profit, but it's not one bucket, it's a series of different buckets, some large and some small.
And inside each of those buckets you WILL FIND a few here and there who do take pride in providing reporting that's as honest as they can make it, WITHIN the parameters OF a profit based system.
Compare it to doctors who do strive to provide good service WITHIN the parameters of a system designed to maximize profit over care.
Yes you will find quacks, it is inevitable due to the human condition, same goes for media.

But in the end, the above ^^^ deserves its own thread because there are indeed those things in this world that SHOULD be profit oriented.
Pantyhose, cars, homes, food, electronics, industrial equipment, entertainment...the list is almost endless.
And there's just a very few things which are essential to life as can be, and which maybe should be at least partially subsidized as public services, to wit good basic education, news, lifesaving medicines and basic healthcare, law enforcement & defense, clean air and water.

My $0.02 only.

 

[jaeger19]

One more question.
How big do you actually think "THE FAR LEFT" really is?
I think it's a distinct and very vocal MINORITY.
Extremes are extremes...because they are extreme.

Not sure on that. I hope that the democrats are not as far left as all that. I think many in the house are pretty extreme.
The same with republicans.
The real question is how much pull do the extreme elements have. The republicans have gone off their rocker and the Trumpist right rules the party.
The question remains to be seen about the democrats left. Will Biden be able to hold them off or will he bow to them and lose the next election.?
Because thats his major threat.. left wing extremism. So far he has done a lot of lip service to the far left.. and not gone full tilt left with policy. However, those in the left are getting upset.. they are criticizing biden more and more.. and they just may be the best thing for the trumpists.. by doing hurting their own.

Life is nothing like what you see on Twitter and the overwhelming majority of Americans are mainstream, not EX-treme.
And that includes Democrats, most of which are...again....mainstream.
Perspective.

I don;'t do anything on twitter. Very little on facebook or instagram. Not my bag.. I value privacy to much..

Most republicans are also mainstream. That doesn;t stop that vocal minority from ruling the party..
Just as can happen with the democrats.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Most republicans are also mainstream. That doesn;t stop that vocal minority from ruling the party..
Just as can happen with the democrats.

Nope, because most mainstream Repubs already left their party and became independents, which by the way IS the largest voting block now.

 

[jaeger19]

Nope, because most mainstream Repubs already left their party and became independents, which by the way IS the largest voting block now.

Naw.. mainstream republicans are still the majority. It makes no sense in a red state to become an independent and not be able to vote in the primary for what is essentially the election.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Naw.. mainstream republicans are still the majority. It makes no sense in a red state to become an independent and not be able to vote in the primary for what is essentially the election.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-04-07/republicans-flee-the-gop-after-capitol-riots

Nearly 140,000 voters left GOP in 25 states in January

Nearly 140,000 voters left the Republican Party in 25 states in January, according to an analysis of public voting records obtained by The Hill. Some of the steepest drops in Republican Party …

thehill.com

ALSO: Land masses don't vote.

 

[jaeger19]

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2021-04-07/republicans-flee-the-gop-after-capitol-riots

Nearly 140,000 voters left GOP in 25 states in January

Nearly 140,000 voters left the Republican Party in 25 states in January, according to an analysis of public voting records obtained by The Hill. Some of the steepest drops in Republican Party …

thehill.com

ALSO: Land masses don't vote.

View attachment 67350895

View attachment 67350896

Yep.. except for this little thing called congress and the electoral college.

Bottom line..if you live in a red state.. it makes no sense for you to be an independent because in many of those states.. you just gave up the right to vote for the person you like for congress.. since thats decided in the republican primary.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Yep.. except for this little thing called congress and the electoral college.

Bottom line..if you live in a red state.. it makes no sense for you to be an independent because in many of those states.. you just gave up the right to vote for the person you like for congress.. since thats decided in the republican primary.

It doesn't change the fact that the GOP is hemorrhaging membership.
I literally just showed you that, and we were not discussing the EC, we were discussing membership numbers.
You SAID that most mainstream connies are still Republicans and I am pointing out the fact that the Party of Trump despises normal mainstream connies.
Now, if Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene are YOUR definition of mainstream connies, then we're at an impasse over "definition of terms".

 

[element94]

It doesn't change the fact that the GOP is hemorrhaging membership.
I literally just showed you that, and we were not discussing the EC, we were discussing membership numbers.
You SAID that most mainstream connies are still Republicans and I am pointing out the fact that the Party of Trump despises normal mainstream connies.
Now, if Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene are YOUR definition of mainstream connies, then we're at an impasse over "definition of terms".

Madison Cawthorn is a very angry guy, and apparently the "Law and Order" party is no longer concerned with it since no republicans are speaking out against his recent statements, such as taking up arms against fellow Americans. He's also still lying about the election 11 months later which is actually making him look weaker.
He may want to tone down his rhetoric, talk about a sitting target.

 

[jaeger19]

It doesn't change the fact that the GOP is hemorrhaging membership.
I literally just showed you that, and we were not discussing the EC, we were discussing membership numbers.
You SAID that most mainstream connies are still Republicans and I am pointing out the fact that the Party of Trump despises normal mainstream connies.
Now, if Madison Cawthorn, Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor Greene are YOUR definition of mainstream connies, then we're at an impasse over "definition of terms".

actually the GOP is not Hemorrhaging membership.

In 2010, the NBC News-Wall Street Journal poll found that 42 percent of registered voters identified as Democrats, while 37 percent identified as Republicans. At the end of 2019, the figures showed 42 percent were Democrats and 37 percent were Republicans. Unchanged.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...changes-despite-overall-static-split-n1118521

Sure.. the party of Trump doesn;t like mainstream republicans... but the mainstream republicans do... And thats what the party is mainly made up of.

They are unfortunately the silent majority currently.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

actually the GOP is not Hemorrhaging membership.


https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/me...changes-despite-overall-static-split-n1118521

Sure.. the party of Trump doesn;t like mainstream republicans... but the mainstream republicans do... And thats what the party is mainly made up of.

They are unfortunately the silent majority currently.

2019 may as well be 1053 AD, because in 1054 astronomers in China and Japan observed the explosion of the supernova which is still visible as the Crab Nebula.
The events of November 2020 and January 6, 2021 precipitated a massive exodus from the Republican Party, which you may indeed choose to ignore at your peril, just as you may also choose to ignore the impending civil war which is being threatened almost daily WITH relative IMPUNITY in our town halls and even in Congress.

 

[jaeger19]

2019 may as well be 1053 AD, because in 1054 astronomers in China and Japan observed the explosion of the supernova which is still visible as the Crab Nebula.
The events of November 2020 and January 6, 2021 precipitated a massive exodus from the Republican Party, which you may indeed choose to ignore at your peril, just as you may also choose to ignore the impending civil war which is being threatened almost daily WITH relative IMPUNITY in our town halls and even in Congress.

Yeah... how many republican party meetings have you been to this year?
Somehow.. I bet I got you beat.

As far as "at my peril"... what exactly does that mean? I realize that the trumpers are a small but very vocal minority. and they have a lot of sway right now.... though its much less than it was..

Seriously.. if trump goes.. do you think the trumpers who hate mainstream republicans... are going to continue to be a factor? Do you think they are going to stay in a party filled with mainstreamers?