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Afghan president flees country after Taliban enters Kabul

Rexedgar

Rexedgar

Yo-Semite!
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Now comes the finger pointing….
 
swing_voter said:
He still has his Swiss bank accounts full of American taxpayer dollars.

You can do pretty well in Portugal with a couple of million.


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Yep, or in Martha’s Vineyard for a few dollars more.
 
Trump rotted the stage, acknowledging that the Taliban were forthright in negotiation, for Biden to step out on and he did, and has fallen through. That Trump is the one that committed the US to a May 2021 withdrawal is no excuse for then F'n up. Again, the Dems, in this case Biden, failed at communicating the truth and at messaging. We knew exactly what was going to happen and how quickly because we've been through this movie before and we knew, despite the lies of how well we trained the Afghan army, that they would fold without hardly a shot being fired. Our mission was over after defeating Al Qaeda and killing Bin Laden (bringing him to justice), which Bush said wasn't important to him. We should have left that corrupt govt then.
 
bluesmoke said:
Trump rotted the stage, acknowledging that the Taliban were forthright in negotiation, for Biden to step out on and he did, and has fallen through. That Trump is the one that committed the US to a May 2021 withdrawal is no excuse for then F'n up. Again, the Dems, in this case Biden, failed at communicating the truth and at messaging. We knew exactly what was going to happen and how quickly because we've been through this movie before and we knew, despite the lies of how well we trained the Afghan army, that they would fold without hardly a shot being fired. Our mission was over after defeating Al Qaeda and killing Bin Laden (bringing him to justice), which Bush said wasn't important to him. We should have left that corrupt govt then.
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We should have never put boots on the ground in Afghanistan. We should have bombed areas where Bin Laden may have been and kept that up until Bin Laden was killed.

The Taliban was always going to be in power, no matter what “leader” was put in charge.
 
bluesmoke said:
Trump rotted the stage, acknowledging that the Taliban were forthright in negotiation, for Biden to step out on and he did, and has fallen through. That Trump is the one that committed the US to a May 2021 withdrawal is no excuse for then F'n up. Again, the Dems, in this case Biden, failed at communicating the truth and at messaging. We knew exactly what was going to happen and how quickly because we've been through this movie before and we knew, despite the lies of how well we trained the Afghan army, that they would fold without hardly a shot being fired. Our mission was over after defeating Al Qaeda and killing Bin Laden (bringing him to justice), which Bush said wasn't important to him. We should have left that corrupt govt then.
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Complaints are easy.

I haven't heard anyone lay out a convincing point-by-point argument - you'd probably need a lot more than 5,000 characters - about a new strategy that we never tried that would work AND that this new strategy would be worth the cost (or, say, considered worth it by a majority of Americans).

I haven't even seen them attempt it.




You say he failed repeatedly. You then acknowledge this would have happened anyway. So what exactly is it that Biden failed at?

It was either do this, with this result. Or do another surge, accomplishing nothing, and get criticized for that failing.
 
bluesmoke said:
Trump rotted the stage, acknowledging that the Taliban were forthright in negotiation, for Biden to step out on and he did, and has fallen through. That Trump is the one that committed the US to a May 2021 withdrawal is no excuse for then F'n up. Again, the Dems, in this case Biden, failed at communicating the truth and at messaging. We knew exactly what was going to happen and how quickly because we've been through this movie before and we knew, despite the lies of how well we trained the Afghan army, that they would fold without hardly a shot being fired. Our mission was over after defeating Al Qaeda and killing Bin Laden (bringing him to justice), which Bush said wasn't important to him. We should have left that corrupt govt then.
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The DoD was never going to recommend leaving - keeping foreign ‘missions’ (even if they are simply bases to keep a ‘presence in the region’)) going is a great reason (excuse?) for the DoD (thus MIC) getting ever more funding. Once any federal department, agency, program, facility or mission gets established it tends to not only remain intact but to grow more expensive.

Biden blew it by picking the summer (rather than simply waiting until winter) as the time to completely bug out, but he was right to conclude that ‘nation building’ in Afghanistan is, was an will remain mission impossible.
 
Maybe the US will have a quarter century to forget this Charlie Foxtrot, before we try another excursion.
 
Mr Person said:
Complaints are easy.

I haven't heard anyone lay out a convincing point-by-point argument - you'd probably need a lot more than 5,000 characters - about a new strategy that we never tried that would work AND that this new strategy would be worth the cost (or, say, considered worth it by a majority of Americans).

I haven't even seen them attempt it.




You say he failed repeatedly. You then acknowledge this would have happened anyway. So what exactly is it that Biden failed at?

It was either do this, with this result. Or do another surge, accomplishing nothing, and get criticized for that failing.
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Many seem to be claiming that simply waiting until winter (when the fighting season ends) would have helped. Also closing our main air bases should have been the last step in the bug-out process.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Many seem to be claiming that simply waiting until winter (when the fighting season ends) would have helped. Also closing our main air bases should have been the last step in the bug-out process.
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It would have been the difference between tearing the band-aid off slowly or doing it quickly.

The end result would be the same, but we would have wasted billions more and had more dead and injured soldiers if we waited.

This should have been done years ago.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Many seem to be claiming that simply waiting until winter (when the fighting season ends) would have helped. Also closing our main air bases should have been the last step in the bug-out process.
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But what would that have changed, really?

To the extent there was fighting involved in the final fall, it was Taliban vs. Afghan army, not against US troops. And lately they just sort of walk up, make a deal with local elders, and there's a blood-free surrender. The people didn't want the government we set up for them, at least not enough to fight against the Taliban. Our military did its job on the killing people front, but we don't seem to have done the necessary for nationbuilding: win the people over to the government that was to rule them.



So Biden waits until winter. The Afghan government falls later, in the same way. If they couldn't strengthen enough to stand up on their own in 20 years, another season or year isn't going to make a difference.


(Sure, their reign was brutal and will be again. But that would be the case whenever we withdrew).
 
Mr Person said:
But what would that have changed, really?

To the extent there was fighting involved in the final fall, it was Taliban vs. Afghan army, not against US troops. And lately they just sort of walk up, make a deal with local elders, and there's a blood-free surrender. The people didn't want the government we set up for them, at least not enough to fight against the Taliban. Our military did its job on the killing people front, but we don't seem to have done the necessary for nationbuilding: win the people over to the government that was to rule them.



So Biden waits until winter. The Afghan government falls later, in the same way. If they couldn't strengthen enough to stand up on their own in 20 years, another season or year isn't going to make a difference.


(Sure, their reign was brutal and will be again. But that would be the case whenever we withdrew).
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I’m only addressing the ability to conduct an orderly bug-out. I fully agree that it was well past time to do so.
 
If the average semi-decently-informed citizen can’t cogently explain why we’re at war in (with?) a country, your war has a problem.

“Containing/preventing/combatting terrorism” isn’t an explanation; it’s a bumper sticker.
 
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Cardinal said:
If the average semi-decently-informed citizen can’t cogently explain why we’re at war in (with?) a country, your war has a problem.

“Containing/preventing terrorism” isn’t an explanation; it’s a bumper sticker.
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That “explanation” was sufficient to get billions invested in the ‘nation building’ effort for two decades. Once the end of those billions flowing into Afghanistan was assured - things were bound to return to ‘normal’ there.

Afghanistan was and will now return to being an economic basket case ‘governed’ by various tribal warlords.

www.worldbank.org

Overview

Get the latest World Bank data, research and development indicators for Afghanistan. Access economy facts, statistics, project information, development research from World Bank experts and breaking news.
www.worldbank.org www.worldbank.org
 
ttwtt78640 said:
That “explanation” was sufficient to get billions invested in the ‘nation building’ effort for two decades. Once the end of those billions flowing into Afghanistan was assured - things were bound to return to ‘normal’ there.

Afghanistan was and will now return to being an economic basket case ‘governed’ by various tribal warlords.

www.worldbank.org

Overview

Get the latest World Bank data, research and development indicators for Afghanistan. Access economy facts, statistics, project information, development research from World Bank experts and breaking news.
www.worldbank.org www.worldbank.org
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We have to explain how we’re going to pay for infrastructure, something that positively impacts people and the economy. But nobody asks how we’re going to pay for military ventures, most of whom nobody can intelligently explain what sweet f***-all they’ve done for us.
 
Phys251 said:
If there were any doubt what a weak government Afghanistan's was, this should end that doubt.
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It also ends any doubt about what a weak President we have. Total disaster. What a humiliation for the United States.
 
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Cardinal said:
We have to explain how we’re going to pay for infrastructure, something that positively impacts people and the economy. But nobody asks how we’re going to pay for military ventures, most of whom nobody can intelligently explain what sweet f***-all they’ve done for us.
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I seriously doubt if congress critters are going to support a reduction in the DoD (and MIC) pork currently being sent to their districts/states - they are more apt to simply vote to have (pork laden) “infrastructure” funds added to it.
 
swing_voter said:
He still has his Swiss bank accounts full of American taxpayer dollars.

You can do pretty well in Portugal with a couple of million.


.
Click to expand...
Now the Taliban has all the money so the Afghan "army" is folding like a bad hand in poker. Afghanistan is the most destitute country in the world and money is all that matters.. $1.6 Billion can buy a lot of loyalty there.

The Taliban militants of Afghanistan have grown richer and more powerful since their fundamentalist Islamic regime was toppled by U.S. forces in 2001.
In the fiscal year that ended in March 2020, the Taliban reportedly brought in US$1.6 billion, according to Mullah Yaqoob, son of the late Taliban spiritual leader Mullah Mohammad Omar, who revealed the Taliban’s income sources in a confidential report commissioned by NATO and later obtained by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty.
In comparison, the Afghan government brought in $5.55 billion during the same period.

https://theconversation.com/the-tal...ey-they-use-to-wage-war-in-afghanistan-147411
 
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